[Religion and Revolution]: Mod Development

[Robert Surcouf]

@Team:
I've uploaded a few changes to the SVN server. I've translated a few game texts in French. I've changed Basecamp's storage capacity (and similar buildings too of course, Village Hall etc...) and fixed Domestic advisor screen...

@Vorpal +5:
Actually 'Infinite City Spawning' seems to be a Civilization related problem. I don't see the problem in Colonization. To me it seems easier to win with a very little amount of cities (each of them being specialized and quite huge)...

@Ray:
I've checked the new native nations. It seems ok... except one thing. The leaderhead's icon are too small in Civilopedia

 

[raystuttgart]

@Ray:
I've checked the new native nations. It seems ok... except one thing. The leaderhead's icon are too small in Civilopedia

Ok, thanks for testing.

Considering the leaderhead buttons, I simply used what I had.
I am really bad with graphical things like that.

But maybe one of the other team members could improve them.

 

[Schmiddie]

I will look after this today / this week

 

[raystuttgart]

I will look after this today / this week

Thanks.

 

[raystuttgart]

Colonists become Veterans through battles won

Hi guys, if I remember correct this is another feature of Original Colonization, that currently does not exist in Vanilla or TAC.

1. There would be an XML-Setting (GlobalDefineAlt.xml):

<iBattlesWonForVeteran>

This would control how many battles a normal (non-specialized) Colonist would need to win to become Veteran (UnitType changed).

So for example:
iBattlesWonForVeteran = 10

After 10 battles a normal (non-specialized) Colonist would outomatically become Veteran.
This would not happen for specialied Units (like Fisher or Converted Native).

2. A second XML-Setting (GlobalDefineAlt.xml):

<iBattlesWonToBecomeFree>

So for example:
iBattlesWonToBecomeFree = 5

After 5 battles a Criminal or Indentured Servant would become free, meaning they would transform to a normal Colonist (UnitType changed).


Feedback ?

 

[colonialfan]

I absolutely agree.

 

[Robert Surcouf]

Yes! I loved that feature

 

[Vorpal+5]

I have been asked to post there and not in 'General Discussions'. If someone can clarify what 'General Discussions' is for, if not for general discussions, that would be appreciated

I have a question, it's about the prices fluctuations of goods. Will the current model of having a transaction in good X impacts the price in good Y retained? I never understood why it was like that in Col4, as it makes no sense, economically wise. How can the fact that I sell silver can raise the price of say muskets or even whale fat I mean?

 

[orlanth]

Sure, I like the idea of winning battles to become free or Veteran. Another method with less coding might be that once a slave or civilian unit wins enough to earn Combat 2, they are able to choose a promotion that makes them become a Free Colonist or Soldier.

If you can only get trained Soldier units through combat alone, it's a large change that could have a big impact on players who prefer a mainly peaceful play style; they would probably never be able to win independence. If there's still some other way to get Soldiers it would be ok. I know there's a lot of discussion about having a Military Academy or Training Camp building, perhaps this would enable Soldiers to be trained.

Some possible suggestions are:
The Military Academy is a building where you can have Soldiers work in a "Military Drill" profession, that adds some Experience points to the unit each turn (possibly by consuming Gunpowder or some other yield).
Also, maybe you could have a civilian unit work in it, and become a Soldier after several turns similar to the existing Education system.

 

[orlanth]

Vorpal5, maybe I'm wrong but I don't think a transaction in good X impacts the price in good Y.

When Domestic Economy is added, maybe there will be a method for local price variation depending on whether demand is fulfilled or unfulfilled, while staying within the bounds set by XML.

 

[Robert Surcouf]

I have a question, it's about the prices fluctuations of goods. Will the current model of having a transaction in good X impacts the price in good Y retained? I never understood why it was like that in Col4, as it makes no sense, economically wise. How can the fact that I sell silver can raise the price of say muskets or even whale fat I mean?

???
I think Orlanth is right. It is not the case. Trading good X will not impact the price of good Y.

You can find all the interesting infos you want here:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/colonization/strategy/pricemechanics

@ Team:
I've fixed Dawn of Man's extra lines issues... I'm uploading it right now!
Could anyone check?

 

[raystuttgart]

I have been asked to post there and not in 'General Discussions'. If someone can clarify what 'General Discussions' is for, if not for general discussions, that would be appreciated

It is pretty easy.

Discussions about features / changes to the mod

-> [Religion and Revolution]: Mod Development (this thread)
(Unless a special thread for a feature or concept already exists)

Everything like:
* Giving general information about this project
* Telling "Guys, mod XX has been released."
* Telling how much you love another mod or a another game
* Congratulations to the team for the efforts
* Telling "Happy New Year"
* Asking "Where is the download link".

-> [Religion and Revolution]: General Questions and Discussions

I have a question, it's about the prices fluctuations of goods. Will the current model of having a transaction in good X impacts the price in good Y retained? I never understood why it was like that in Col4, as it makes no sense, economically wise. How can the fact that I sell silver can raise the price of say muskets or even whale fat I mean?

As orlanth and Robert have already explained, you have misunderstood the pricing mechanism.

There are simply also random price changes.

Currently we are not thinking about changing the price mechanism.
(I would explicitly not want that.)

When Domestic Economy is added, maybe there will be a method for local price variation depending on whether demand is fulfilled or unfulfilled, while staying within the bounds set by XML.

Yes, we will have a different pricing system for Domestic Market.
(I think we have a good concept here.)

But please let us not touch the pricing system in Europe.
We are talking about risks and efforts here, that I don't want to think about.

 

[raystuttgart]

Sure, I like the idea of winning battles to become free or Veteran. Another method with less coding might be that once a slave or civilian unit wins enough to earn Combat 2, they are able to choose a promotion that makes them become a Free Colonist or Soldier.

Trust me, my implementation concept (Number of battles won) is easy to do.
(And it will work for AI as well ...)

If you can only get trained Soldier units through combat alone, it's a large change that could have a big impact on players who prefer a mainly peaceful play style; they would probably never be able to win independence. If there's still some other way to get Soldiers it would be ok. I know there's a lot of discussion about having a Military Academy or Training Camp building, perhaps this would enable Soldiers to be trained.

You could of course still buy them.

But ok, if you really want we could still let them be "educated" (in University like now).
I really don't know how often human players "educated" their veterans.
(I never did this myself and would rather remove it, because it feels unrealistic to me.)

The Military Academy is a building where you can have Soldiers work in a "Military Drill" profession, that adds some Experience points to the unit each turn (possibly by consuming Gunpowder or some other yield).
Also, maybe you could have a civilian unit work in it, and become a Soldier after several turns similar to the existing Education system.

I really don't like the idea of "Military Academy".

It will be a nightmare to implement, especially to have AI understand this.

Also, it does not feel right to me to become "Veteran" through learning instead of real experience on battle fields.

By the way:
AI does not understand "Education System" either,
which was one major reason to do "Learning by Doing".

 

[raystuttgart]

@Robert:

I have tested your changes.
("Native Advisor Screen", "Dawn of Man")

Everything perfect.
(I really like the "Native Advisor Screen" )

It is also fantastic that you translated the texts into French.

@Schmiddie:

I have not tested the colores for Native Nations yet.
But I will take a look at them together with the flags, when they are available.

 

[Robert Surcouf]

@Robert:

I have tested your changes.
("Native Advisor Screen", "Dawn of Man")

Everything perfect.
(I really like the "Native Advisor Screen" )

It is also fantastic that you translated the texts into French.

Thank you.
I haven't translated everything yet... I'm hoping that translating TAC and R&R will somehow re-motivate a few members of Civfr.com... But until now I haven't had any sign of life

 

[Vorpal+5]

As orlanth and Robert have already explained, you have misunderstood the pricing mechanism.

There are simply also random price changes.

Currently we are not think

No I have not, from experience, the selling or buying of a good X can result in the variation of good Y. I don't have to misunderstood or understand anything, this is a fact. Now you tell me it is random, perhaps... But it still has no relationships with real world economic.

I have some screenshots, before and after the sell of muskets, changing the price of others goods. Do you want them, perhaps there is something I misunderstood in what I saw? If not, try to find a real world justification to that, you are welcome.

 

[raystuttgart]

... from experience, the selling or buying of a good X can result in the variation of good Y.

Yes, buying / selling can also trigger "random" price changes of other goods.
(Actually it is not purely random.)

Continuously selling amounts of one certain good, will cause a gradual decrease of price of that good.
Continuously buying amounts of one certain good, will cause a gradual increase of price of that good.

But it still has no relationships with real world economic.

This is just a game.
Of course this mechanism is not perfect.

However I know the efforts and risks of messing with that.

I have some screenshots, ...

I don't need screenshots, I know the code and the behaviour in game.

If not, try to find a real world justification to that, you are welcome.

Why should I give justifications ?
(I did not programm this ... )

I don't want to mess with that code because it is extremely risky.
I am also satisfied with how it currently works.

Edit:

If anybody will ever implement a pricing mechanism that is

A) More realistic than the current on
B) Adaptable with reasonable efforts
C) Balanced
D) Bug Free
E) "Understood" by AI

we will surely be happy to take a look, discuss and eventually adapt if we like it.

 

[Vorpal+5]

Sorry, I did not knew the code was tricky and I can understand the reluctance to change it. For my point of view (the player) the fact that sometime there was a random change that made say the price of whale fat increase because you just sold muskets was weird! Now, as you say, if the code is complex and prone to introduce bugs if changed, let's live with that.

Another question, I see that TAC is using 'Give Broadside' promotions for the biggest Port. I think this is a neat idea, to reward the player like that. I was thinking of something along this line... What about others buildings doing the same? We know that several FF can give promotions, like Veteran I, Minuteman I... Sometime you don't get them, as you can't get all FF... But what if some buildings allowed you to get them? If you have all FF giving promotions, these buildings have no purpose (you are strong enough) but if you missed most of these FF, these buildings can help you stay in the race.

Just a suggestion, as usual.

 

[raystuttgart]

Another question, I see that TAC is using 'Give Broadside' promotions for the biggest Port. I think this is a neat idea, to reward the player like that. I was thinking of something along this line... What about others buildings doing the same?

Generally it is possible of course.
If you have concrete good ideas, let us know.

A view points about that:
(Just clarifying.)

1. Promotions given by a building are only given to units that are produced in the same city as the building.

2. I would not like to create new buildings, just to give promotions, without the building doing anything else.

3. We have "Inventions" as big topic (later release). Inventions could also give civ-wide promotions (just like FoundingFathers do).

 

[raystuttgart]

@Team:

I have further improved AI for "New Storage Capacity".

Also I have fixed "Maintain Level"-Bug which agaro had reported.
(It was a side effect of new AI-Logic for "New Storage Capacity".)

It is uploaded to SVN.

@agaro:

Again, thanks for reporting.
Could you also test please ?