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[Religion and Revolution]: Mod Development

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Religion and Revolution' started by Robert Surcouf, Sep 5, 2011.

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  1. Robert Surcouf

    Robert Surcouf Civ4Col Modder

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    No ! :lol:
    50 tools for a pioneer + 50 tools + 50 guns + 50 horses for a cuirassier = 200.
    Conclusion: you can't produce anything...

    But that means you have to build a building first. But to build a building you need to produce goods... :confused:
    You only have two options:
    Put the two first units in separate colonies or buy some goods... I don't like the idea of not having the choice...
     
  2. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    You are right. :thumbsup:
    (I forgot that one of the 2 starting units is a Cuirassier.)

    We should really allow the player the strategy to put both starting units into the first city.

    Ok, then let us increase the iYieldStorage of all SPECIALBUILDING_BELLS from 100 to 200.
    (CITY_YIELD_CAPACITY would also mess with Cargo Capacity of Ships or AI. So we should not change that.)

    This would have the effect, that Total City Storage is 300.
    (Storage Buildings would of course add to that.)

    Agree ? :)
     
  3. Robert Surcouf

    Robert Surcouf Civ4Col Modder

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    Great ! :goodjob:
    I can do it if you want...
     
  4. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    About the Cuirassiers, how about we change it's equipment to 50 Horses + 50 Guns + 50 Coats (rather than Tools)?
     
  5. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Ok. :)
     
  6. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    I don't like that. :dunno:
     
  7. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    Maybe it is an idea to use fabrics or coats for all troops (every soldier needs a uniform - ok, not militias)?
     
  8. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Yes, but 2 things have to be considered:

    1. AI is really stupid.
    The more yields required for a profession, the less AI can handle it.

    2. Gamefun for human players.
    I don't think it will add to my fun, if military professions also require coats.
    It is even quite the contrary. I think I would really dislike that.

    To my opinion, this idea would only bring complexity and problems but no benefits or fun. :dunno:
     
  9. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    I just thought that it made more sense as a third yield than tools :)

    I agree that three equipment yields is too much, but that is already the case with the cuirassier.
     
  10. Robert Surcouf

    Robert Surcouf Civ4Col Modder

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    If three yields is too much than we can simply remove one (50 horses + 50 guns, no tools)...
    Anyway, when we will add inventions, some professions or units will have to be unlocked so it will still be difficult to have many strong military units :)
     
  11. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    I think it is ok as it is. :)
    (At least for now.)

    1. Currently guns are produced of tools.
    (So chances of having both in one town are ok.)

    2. AI behaviour for tools is totally different than for coats.
    (AI will try to bring away / export coats, but it will try to keep / import tools.)

    3. AI is not really depending on cuirassiers.
    But AI would really get problems if for all other military profession 3 yields were required, too.

    4. We will probably rebuild Military anyways at some point of our project.
    (But it might take quite a while until then.)
     
  12. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    I think 50 Horses + 50 Guns + 50 Tools are ok.
     
  13. agaro

    agaro Warlord

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    Yes I agree to keep coats out of it. And in general try to restrict the need for primary resources (other than tools / ore / horses) to be developed in order to achieve military or transport purposes.

    Under TAC cotton/cloth became a strategic resource - and adding this to ore/tools is probably sufficient as a proxy to represent a developed settlement. If we go too far down this path eventually we have to find wood or bone for buttons - when in reality settlers would fight the indian attacks even if the settlers were naked.

    Plus I think Ray is correct to keep reminding us of AI problems. I am not sure how TAC AI thinks about stock piling cloth to make ships / wagons, but I doubt it is optimal or adaptive.
     
  14. Vorpal+5

    Vorpal+5 Venturing in Erebus

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    Does a plan exists to fight Infinite City Spawning (aka ICS)? e.g you spam little settlements, like 40+, to get high yields easily, plus 2 freed slaves per village once you get independent? Perhaps something as simple as an option before starting game, that would impact Square(NumCities) per turn as an upkeep in money? So if you have 20 cities/villages, you get impacted by -400 gold a turn.
     
  15. Robert Surcouf

    Robert Surcouf Civ4Col Modder

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    I'm sorry Vorpal+5 but I don't understand your post... :confused::(
    What are you talking about?
     
  16. Vorpal+5

    Vorpal+5 Venturing in Erebus

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    Let me rephrase then :)

    There is an exploit that exists since Civilization I, and that has been fought by Sid Meyer and others designers which is called 'Infinite City Spawning'. Basically the strategy is to create a lot of cities, because mathematically, more city is more power, most of the time.

    For example in civ4, this exploit is prevented because the more city you create, the more EACH city costs, so after some time, you can't even expand without having a big extra cost to pay, and this mean it is not viable to continue adding cities.

    In Colonization, there is no such rubber band mechanism (rubber band means 'negative feedback loop', i.e a compensatory mechanism to fight the exploit). As such, if you play on a huge map, once you have the power to keep the Indians at bay, you can create easily a ton of cities. This lead to a large amount of resources extracted, plus when you declare independence, to many new colonists (thanks to the free the slaves option).

    This is the essence of my question... Would it be possible you introduce a mechanism, optionally I think, that will make this strategy less interesting?
     
  17. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    The strategy you describe is:
    (Having masses of small cities.)

    A) Not as easy as you think.

    B) Not very effective.

    Also:

    C) This mod is not meant to force certain game styles onto the players.
    If somebody really wants to create masses of 1-Citizen-Cities, I don't care.
    Why should we put efforts into not allowing this ? :dunno:

    D) Some concepts like "Satisfaction" might eventually make this a little less interesting.
    But that would be a side-effect of these features and not their main intention.

    E) I am playing myself on gigantic maps. (Much bigger, than anything TAC knows.)
    I usually have many many cities and have never seen any problems considering game play.

    So to answer your question:
    No, I don't believe we will implement something just to prevent players from having many cities.
     
  18. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    Except for the "Free the Slaves" option, I'm not sure if that's really unbalancing, since contrary to how it is in Civilization, in Colonization the food cost for population growth is fixed, and the value of one citizen in a large settlement isn't so different from such a citizen's value in a new city, so the advantage in settling new cities isn't as great as in Civilization.
     
  19. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    @team:

    Yesterday night I have added Algonquian, Carib and Navajo to our mod.
    (It is uploaded to SVN.)

    Please somebody test if it is working. :)
    (I want to make sure, that I did not forget to commit something. I tested of course.)

    They are fully functional and balanced. Thus you can play with them in our Mod.
    (Mostly small graphical improvement and eventually improvement of texts is needed.)

    If somebody notices anything, let me know. :cool:


    @KJ or Schmiddie:

    It would be great, if you could take care of some graphical things. :thumbsup:

    These are the things that still need to be done:

    1. Flags for these Nations need to be created.
    2. Playercolors need to be chosen.

    This should be done:

    3. Nationspecific Unitgraphics
    (Currently they are just copies of existing ones.)

    Please adjust the ones you find here:
    ...\Assets\Art\units\algonquian
    ...\Assets\Art\units\caribs
    ...\Assets\Art\units\navjo


    @colonialfan:

    Could you please check (and eventually improve):
    CIV4GameText_RaR_New_Nations.xml
     
  20. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    @Team:

    Since some of you reported problems generating the DLL, I have uploaded my complete project for CvGameCoreDLL.

    You can find the zip in our SVN in /transfer.

    Including:

    * project file
    * make file
    * libaries
    * sources
    ...

    I hope this will help. :)
     
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