[Religion and Revolution]: Mod Development

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I do need a leaderhead that is looking like the Pope. :)
But the faction should be called neutral something like "The Church", because I want to use it for Catholics and Protestants.

So in case of the English it could stand for some Archbishop and in case of a Catholic Nation it could actually be the Pope.

For the largest Protestant denomination in England, i.e., "The Church of England", the monarch is the official head of the Church (although most monarchs since the reformation have left the running of the church and doctrinal matters largely to the Archbishops). The Archbishop of Canterbury is the highest ranking position for a member of the clergy in the Church of England. It's does not carry the same kind of power as the Pope, but its the top job nonetheless.

As for the other Protestant Countries in the game, the Dutch, Swedes, and Danes, I'm not sure how their Protestant organizations are structured, or what their titles would be. I'm assuming an Archbishop of a major city/town?
 
As for the other Protestant Countries in the game, the Dutch, Swedes, and Danes, I'm not sure how their Protestant organizations are structured, or what their titles would be. I'm assuming an Archbishop of a major city/town?
I don't know about the Dutch, but the others aren't much unlike the description of the English.

After a bit of digging I learned that Sweden has an Archbishop in Uppsala while Denmark has none. This mean the church is ruled by "a council" consisting of the 12 bishops, though it would appear that the bishop of Copenhagen has more to say than the average bishop.

Norway, Sweden and Denmark converted protestantism in 1536. In other words that's most of the RaR timeframe.

The Norwegian church is like the Danish without an archbishop, but with a bishop in Trondheim, who appears to have more power.

Now why do I mention Norway? Because Norway was part of Denmark until the Vienna convention (1815 or something like that). It happened like this.
In 1801 England intercepted a letter from the Danish king to Napoleon. In this letter the king stated that he wish for Napoleon to win the ongoing war and that to aid him Denmark would give the entire navy to France as a gift. England responded by attacking Denmark and sink the fleet.
In 1807 the English returned to smash everything again (no aid for France) and here they ignored the defenses surrendering. When they ran out of military targets they started firing at the city itself (Copenhagen). This bombardment was also the first one where England used the newly invented rockets.
At the Vienna convention after the war, Sweden proposed that Denmark should be punished for aiding France and that Norway should be independent. This was accepted and shortly after that Sweden and Norway joined together. Sweden calls it a union and Norway calls it occupation. The truth is likely that it was a union, though Norway was dragged into it like a shotgun wedding. Norway became independent after around 100 years, though Sweden kept quite a bit, including the good farmland. For some reason the Norwegians are way more aware of this time period than the Swedes.

The letter, which started all this. It's preserved (I think it's stored in London). Historians today agree that it's fake. It didn't originate from Denmark meaning the reason for England attacking is invalid and so is the reason for splitting out Norway. It kind of make sense that it's fake. Just think about the content. Denmark a small neutral country with nothing but coastlines decides not to have a navy anymore and at the same time give up their neutrality in an ongoing war between the world's superpowers.

The admiral, who commanded the attack on Denmark was Lord Nelson. Somehow I don't think his statue at Trafalgar Square says "The admiral who ordered the first bombardment of civilians in history". I kind of suspect the British have forgotten that part about him.

Wow that ended up being a bit long. Either way I answered the question about the Scandinavian churches.
 
Hi guys,

the feature "The Church" is still in work.
(Almost done though. But still need to do some thorough testing.)

But I wanted to show this !!! awesome !!! Leaderhead Schmiddie created. :bowdown:

Edit:
Also still need to find some good Pedia Text.
Maybe something general about Churches / Religion of the era of Colonization. :think:
 

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The credits for the LH itself go to "The Capo" who has uploaded it in the Civ4 LH database (2008).

But I have changed the clothes and made some further graphic improvements.
 
I will probably not get to test the complete feature today.
(Will need to do some preparations for my job tomorrow as well.)

But the first tests, did all work fine. :)
(The faction "The Church" seems to be integrated fine within the mod.)
 

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Maybe we should call him archbishop? "The church" and "the Church" (Name of leader and name of fraction) looks a bit strange... ;)

That is fine for me. :)
(The Catholic Church does have Archbishops as well.)
 
The credits for the LH itself go to "The Capo" who has uploaded it in the Civ4 LH database (2008).

But I have changed the clothes and made some further graphic improvements.

Yep, it's based on Capo's Richelieu
Great improvements on it though! Congrats :cool:

Can you update it to the LH database? (with credits to the Capo for the base)
Maybe a generic Bishop LH will be of use to some other users too
 
The Feature "The Church" is tested and uploaded to SVN. :)
(Only Pedia Text is still missing.)

Basically it involves a DLL-Diplomacy Dialog.

"The Archbishop" will occassionaly demand money from you.
(Will not tell the conditions, that is secret. :mischief: )

Accepting / refusing his demand, can result in various different outcomes.
Of course it will also influence the Attitude of "The Archbishop", which will again influence likeliness and height of further demands.

Possible Outcomes for Accepting:

Attitude of King improved
Attitude of other Europeans improved
Immigrationtreshold lowered
Missionary spawning in city
Priest / Preacher spawning in city
...

Possible Outcomes for Refusing:

Attitude of King worsened
Attitude of other Europeans worsened
Immigrationtreshold increased
Unrest in a city
...

---------

Also of course the DLL-Diplomacy-Event for Bishops now uses "The Archbishop" instead of the King.

---------

Of course, this new fraction could be used for a lot of other DLL-Diplomacy-Events or completely other features as well.
 

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A lot of diplo events would be possible...

Current the faction is used for only 2 diplo events.
("Demanding Donation" and "Bishops")

But of course it could be used for many others.
(Depending on the ideas that modders might have.)
 
Very impressive! :bowdown: :crazyeye:

I am a fan of having more diplo too, even if it's The Church we have to deal with... :D
Some diplo-event ideas:

- The Church demandes a certain amount of goods, in exchange the player gets [selectable] cash, religious FF points or a "rare" unit (exp. preacher, jesuit/evangelist, perhaps a bishop or a ship, whatever...)

- A Variation of the King's "Declare War on another European nation"-Event:
The Church wants you to declare war on a certain native tribe, if foreign missions are built there. Similar to the King's War-Event, the Church offers troops (conquistadores?)

The Church could also "offering" Quests:

- Build 5 missions, receive [selecable] cash, goods or FF points

...not really spectacular, just some first thoughts... :D
 
Hm, I got the offer from the archbishop in the first round: Exchange of revealed maps.

Hm, maybe it is already fixed with the last update? The archbishop should not offer a map - since he has no units in the new world which could reveal the map... :D:rolleyes:


Spoiler :
attachment.php
 

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The archbishop should not offer a map - since he has no units in the new world which could reveal the map... :D:rolleyes:

I was not sure, if I should completely deactivate trade offers from the Archbishop, because

1. Theoretically he could trade maps with several players and thus you could acquire maps from other Euopeans through him.

2. Maybe some modmodder might implement new features, that would involve trading with him.

I was even considering to give some starting money to the Archbishop.

But of course I could forbid the Archbishop to initiate trade offers. :dunno:
(And of course, that trade offer is way too early in game.)

I cannot completely forbid the Archbishop to initiate diplomacy, because then the DLL-Diplo-Events would not work anymore.

This feature definitely still needs finetuning and further testing.
At the moment it seems to work without bugs.
I could also not yet find any bad side effects.

- A Variation of the King's "Declare War on another European nation"-Event:
The Church wants you to declare war on a certain native tribe, if foreign missions are built there. Similar to the King's War-Event, the Church offers troops (conquistadores?)

I could do something similar if Schmiddie would like to have it. :think:
(It would be relatively easy to implement.)
Spoiler :

The Archbishop could ask you to declare war on a tribe that does not have any missions yet.
"Those Natives have not accepted salvation by Christ. They must have a pact with the devil ! ..."

As a reward for accepting you could get a small army of conquistadores.

Of course this event should occur earliest in midgame.


The Church could also "offering" Quests:

DLL-Diplo-Quests (as I had suggested here) are far more complicated than these DLL-Diplo-Events, that can usually be implemented within less than an hour.
 
In 1493 all Europeans were Catholics. Why not have just one pope (for all nations) at start. The pope then treats the leaders he has bad attitude to as protestants instead of them being it by default.
 
In 1493 all Europeans were Catholics. Why not have just one pope (for all nations) at start. The pope then treats the leaders he has bad attitude to as protestants instead of them being it by default.
That kind of make sense considering the church demands money. Protestantism was a rebellion against the church demanding people to donate and inherit to the church. The result was that the church became rich beyond your wildest dreams. In some areas they owned as much as 50% of the farmland. After all no farmer wanted to end up in hell and old and ill landowners gave everything to the church to prevent that from happening.

Maybe not completely accurate that all countries then stay catholics, but then you may "declare independence" from the church, which in turn prevents the church from making demands. There has to be some tradeoff as it has to be a strategic decision to become protestants.
 
In 1493 all Europeans were Catholics. Why not have just one pope (for all nations) at start.

Whatever we will do, there will never be a solution, that everybody is happy with. :)

Either we will

A) Have "The Pope" and people complaining
B) Have "The Archbishop" and people complaining
C) Have lots of Church-Leaders (Catholic, Orthodox, Archbishop of England, Archbishop of Sweden, ...) and we will be unhappy for having to make this unnecessarily complicated.

So as long as the current solution is fine for the active team, which is currently only Schmiddie and myself, then I guess we leave it as it is for now.

If a more complex system for Religions will ever be implemented, this might of course be changed.
(I currently have no plans to do so.)

Come on guys, use your imagination a bit. :)

Maybe not completely accurate that all countries then stay catholics, but then you may "declare independence" from the church, which in turn prevents the church from making demands. There has to be some tradeoff as it has to be a strategic decision to become protestants.

That is thinking pretty far into the future and a much bigger feature, than I currently want to implement.
At the moment I want to have a simple and stable feature (whcih some other modders might one day expand to something really big).

We are currently only 2 team members working on RaR and we have some other things we want to implement as well.
(e.g. Africa Screen and further Achievments.)

But if somebody wants to expand / change this later on, that is absolutely fine for me. :thumbsup:

Edit:
But yes, generally that sounds interesting. :)
(Although actually fulfilling demands currently also gives you benefits.)
 
For the Moment I'm fine with this Feature as it is.

We should rather think about more diplo-events and that the Feature is working correct.

By the way: I'm fine with your decision ray, that the Church can trade maps!
 
By the way: I'm fine with your decision ray, that the Church can trade maps!

It was not really a decision.
I just did not know if initiating trade should be forbidden to the player or not. :)

But I definitely do not want the Church to start trading maps that early.
(It would only be annoying in the first rounds.)

So I will do a little bit here.
 
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