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Religion Strategy

veteranspy

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
27
I haven't seen any thread like this so far but what are your opinions on each pantheon/belief?

for pantheon i generally go for faith producing ones depending on what i have (+4 from natural wonder, +2 for quarry etc.) to get me to religion faster

for believes, to me the best ones are tithe, interfaith(if you setup for constant science output), pagodas (for happiness), papal primacy (for greek, siam etc.).

the most worthless one being holy warriors, since you want faith to buy missionaries and great people not units.
 
I find Holy Warriors works well if you want to focus on building infrastructure instead of units when you have aggressive neighbors, a huge amount of faith per turn, and you don't have any particular need for Great Prophets (for example, you might not have any religion benefits that involves foreign civs, and you might be planning to go for Rationalism, making Holy Sites less desirable).

Whenever I play Spain, and I've secured an early Natural Wonder within my borders and I have adopted One With Nature, I always go with Holy Warriors (unless it's taken), because then I can focus on getting my happiness back where it needs to be without having to worry about building any units, at least not until the Industrial Era, but by then my infrastructure is complete, and I can spend my absurd levels of Faith per turn on GP.
 
Faith producing effects (for Pantheon / Founder / Follower) are nice but they can be underwhelming if you don't have anything interested to spend them on. You can buy only so many missionaries and Great Prophets before they become redundant and it's a long time until you hit Industrial for the other Great People. The building beliefs are nice (Mosque / Pagoda / Cathedral / Monastery) but even with these you may quickly end up buying them for each of your cities and then nothing else to do with your Faith. One of the great things about Holy Warriors is it is an excellent way to spend your faith and lets you essentially convert Faith into Hammers/Gold.

Interfaith can generate some sick amounts of science, but it is dependent on converting others, so you need nearby religious oriented civs and you may face diplomatic penalties. (I think it's very strong though).

After playing with Papal Primacy, I actually find it a bit overrated. It's actually a lot of effort trying to spread your religion to all the city states and I'd rather do other things with my resources.

Holy Warriors is very, very good. Lets you warmonger (or defend) extremely well. It's particularly good if you're generating lots of Faith (i.e. near Faith producing wonders or CS, or you choose certain pantheons like Desert Folklore when you're surrounded by floodplains, oases, and desert hills).
 
Papal primacy is actually fantastic when paired with other bonuses, some of the patronage policies are unlocked and your religion is the dominant religion in city states then the default influence with them is freinds
 
recently enjoyed from "Just War + cheap prophets" combo as byzantium .. woks well on deity, +20 authomatic vs neighbour cities and any other with 4 converts per prophet. I find cheap missionaries less usefull as well as holy warriors..
For rivals which have own religion - dont sign OB with them and have one inquisitor to disallow enemy prophet bombing
 
recently enjoyed from "Just War + cheap prophets" combo as byzantium .. woks well on deity, +20 authomatic vs neighbour cities and any other with 4 converts per prophet. I find cheap missionaries less usefull as well as holy warriors..
For rivals which have own religion - dont sign OB with them and have one inquisitor to disallow enemy prophet bombing
How do you get prophet bombed if that's what you want (I still need the Indoctrinated achievement). I just tried a crowded map full of Religious AI's and not once did someone send a missionary/prophet my way!
 
How do you get prophet bombed if that's what you want (I still need the Indoctrinated achievement). I just tried a crowded map full of Religious AI's and not once did someone send a missionary/prophet my way!

Agree, they usually do this too much that if you do not combat this they could kill your religion off (i am serious)
Maya is quite crazy about sending his prophets to bomb your holy cities and other ones....
I agree, seems in your game they are too busy to combat each other....
Try to play Deity game vs few or one Religious civ and few warmongers :P
 
I like Holy Warrior alot. As a previous poster says, it allows you to concentrate on building other things than units in your cities. HOly Warrior and desert folklore with a couple of desert cities and you're militarily home and dry.

The only drawback of Holy Warrior is that it doesn't pay to spread your religion. If your neighbour can pull units out his hat using faith as well as, then your advantage is over. Still, at immortal I found it works well for the style I play.
 
Pantheons: if I can benefit from terrain based, I'll take that one. Otherwise Fertility Rites.
Founder: Tithe/ Interfaith Dialog.
Follower: usually + 15:c5food:, + 1%:c5production: per follower.
Enhancer: depends. If I have high faith output early, I usually take cheaper missionaries. They allow to spread religion very very fast. Otherwise, stronger missionaries.

Religion spreading is so different from game to game. I had a game where AI didn't spread at all. I spread to 39 cities, making over 150:c5gold: from Tithe, the best AI (Rome) spread its to 5. In last game the same Rome spread to 20 earlier than I even found these cities.
 
I like to use faith to buy cathederals. If your religion is powerful enough, buying a cathederal gets extra happy, faith, culture and an artist slot and your religion just gets even stronger.
In filled-up huge maps (20 civs, still only 7 religions) this can spread your religion much further and quicker without having to build missionaries or new prophets, which in itself defends against other religions spreading because they're too far away to last.
 
Interfaith can generate some sick amounts of science, but it is dependent on converting others, so you need nearby religious oriented civs and you may face diplomatic penalties. (I think it's very strong though).
I used one missonary to convert one of my own cities to my religion, only give me 50 :c5science: :(
 
Pantheon: Fertility Rites, esp. if you play cultural or want a tall empire. i do sometimes adopt religious settlements though. Cultural can also choose one of the cultural bonus, depending on your situation

Founder: Most definitely choose Tithe, it gives you lots of gold later on (i once got 80 gold from this). especially useful for diplomatic and domination

Follower 1: Cathedral (1 faith, 3 culture, 1 happiness, artist slot), especially if your playing cultural

Follower 2: Up to the victory path you want. For cultural, choose choral music, or maybe pagoda. Holy warriors if your a warmonger.

Enhancer: Itinerant Preachers, spreads your religion to other civs easily. If taken, choose defender of the faith for the 20% combat bonus

So what civs?
Celts, Ethopia (monument gives +2 faith), byzantium IMO
 
I used one missonary to convert one of my own cities to my religion, only give me 50 :c5science: :(

The amount of science awarded actually depends on the amount of followers of the other religion in the city you're trying to convert. I believe it's 10 science per follower. I was once neighboring Christian Byzantium as Carthage and founded my religion after them, and decided "what the heck, lets try Interfaith Dialogue out."

When converting smaller cities I would get disappointing returns, but then I tried sending a couple missionaries down to Constantinople (sitting on a floodplain and booming towards 20 population). I started getting 150+ science per missionary. With numbers like that (and using the cheaper missionary enhancer) every 2-3 missionaries are giving you the rough equivalent of a Great Scientist. Would've been even sweeter if someone hadn't beaten me to the Great Mosque.

It's a situational power, but bloody powerful when the right scenario comes along. It's a nice alternative to the other founder beliefs if you found your religion too late to really spread it very far among your neighbors.
 
You should pick beliefs that support your overall strategy (or, if you are like me, "feel" right for the civ in question << suboptimal). This topic could really use a guide in the War Academy.

I choose Pantheon beliefs based on geography and what pantheons still remain. I find the culture- and faith-generating beliefs work well. Often (on Emperor) one or more of the choices I would normally take are gone. At this stage you may not know what victory condition you wish to pursue. If there are no beliefs that match your resources/terrain, Fertility Rites and even Ancestral Worship are decent to jive with Tradition and Liberty starts, respectively.

IMO, the strongest Founder beliefs are ceremonial burial and tithe. Spread your religion, earn happiness or gold. Initiation rites is front-loaded but is dwarfed over time by the power of tithing.

For Follower beliefs, I always try to get at least one that gives me an option to buy something with Faith, either a building (Cathedral, Pagoda, etc.) or Units (Holy Warriors). There comes a time in most games where Prophets are too expensive and you don't need missionaries or inquisitors, and you haven't yet unlocked the ability to buy other types of Great People with Faith. The faith buildings are generally awesome and have NO maintenance cost, and are particularly powerful in an expansionist strategy.

As for the other follower beliefs, choose something that supports your victory condition (more hammers for space/conquest, culture for culture, etc.).

The enhancers generally relate to your ability to spread your religion or provide combat benefits. They should be chosen based on your map situation, neighbors, and chosen strategy. Defender of the Faith is nice if you don't care overmuch about spreading your religion and just want to hunker down for a space win. In a religion-spread contest, religious texts can be very powerful to get your faith spread before the AI gets there -- AI religion can spread like wildfire and once it gets started it can be hard to stop without using a prophet or two.
 
faith buildings are especially good for culture, like cathedral and pagoda

defender of the faith is excellent for defending (hence the name) but not really for domination where you will be attacking instead of defending

religious texts combined with tithe/ceremonial burial is very powerful. converting the majority of another civs cities provide a large diplomatic boost

interfaith dialogue is risky as a founder as you probably still arent sure as to your victory type (unless your babylon, in which case you'll probably win with interfaith dialogue...)
 
If I can't get Tithe, I love running the Interfaith Dialogue/Holy Order mix. Since I play Mayan, I always beeline to Theology and build the Great Mosque of Djenne. Cheap missionaries which spread religion 3 times and give science boost each time = huge science boost. Even without getting Holy Order the Mosque of Djenne goes great with ID

As for the follower beliefs I believe Pagoda is the best. If you're warmongering in the medieval/Renaissance eras than Holy Warriors is useful, but it becomes quite useless later in the game. Pagodas/Mosques/Cathedrals can be purchased in newly acquired cities all game long.
 
Faith producing effects (for Pantheon / Founder / Follower) are nice but they can be underwhelming if you don't have anything interested to spend them on. You can buy only so many missionaries and Great Prophets before they become redundant and it's a long time until you hit Industrial for the other Great People.

You only have to hit Medieval Era for Great Merchants (with Commerce) or Renaissance (with Rationalism) to use faith to generate Great People.

There's also a synergy with Papal Primacy - you mentioned yourself that it can be hard to spread your faith to CS, so generating more faith with resources or terrain features and buying missionaries every few turns can be helpful to use this belief if you want to focus on CS.
 
nope u cant buy great ppl before industrial age with faith, doesnt matter if u earlier opened a tree which offers great people to buy. but once u hit industrial age u can even really buy great prophets instead of gambling to get one.
 
Pantheons I think can be either used for your long term strategy (ie, Science Victory, Cultural Victory) or can be used for a short term boost (over the long haul, Pantheons aren't that powerful, but in the short term some of them can be very powerful in the right situation).

Long term:

Wide

Ancestor Worship: +1 Culture for every Shrine in your civilization
God of Craftsmen: +1 Production in cities with population of 3+
Messenger of the Gods: +2 Science in cities with a Trade Route
Goddess of Love: +1 Happiness from cities with population of 6+

Tall

Fertility Rites: 10% faster Growth Rate
Goddess of Protection: +30% increase in city Ranged Combat Strength
Monument to the Gods: +15% Production of Ancient/Classical Wonders
Mother Goddess: (increased food production)
Religious Settlements: +15% faster border growth

Terrain

Dance of the Aurora: +1 Faith from Tundra tiles without Forest
Desert Folklore: +1 Faith from Desert tiles
God of the Open Sky: +1 Culture from Pastures
God of the Sea: +1 Production from Fishing Boats
Goddess of Festivals: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Wine and Incense
Goddess of the Hunt: +1 Food from Hunting Camps
One with Nature: +2 Faith from Natural Wonders
Oral Tradition: +1 Culture from Plantations
Religious Idols: +1 Culture and +1 Faith for each Gold and Silver
Sacred Path: +1 Culture from Jungle tiles
Sacred Waters: +1 Happiness from cities on rivers
Stone Circles: +2 Faith from Quarries

Warfare

Faith Healers: +30 HP healed per turn if adjacent to a friendly city
God of War: Gain Faith if you win a battle within 4 tiles if your city

As you can see, most Pantheons are based on your terrain. Notice how all the terrain bonuses are either culture or faith (except for camps). Personally, I think it is best to pick a bonus that will give you the most help in the first 100 turns or so, not to line up with your overall victory (your Religion should do that job instead). I feel like faith bonuses are particularly strong in the early game (unless you've got really good terrain you still need cultural infrastructure and CS's to really make a dent in SP costs) because you only need about 500 faith to get yourself off to the races faith-wise, and a really good bonus (like say, Desert Folklore in an oasis town can easily trump Stonehenge). That might be different at higher difficulties where it is harder/impossible to be the first with a religion or even found a religion. It doesn't take much to really milk a terrain pantheon (especially folklore, sacred path or auroras). Even 3-4 culture or faith in the first 50 turns is going to double your normal output at that point.

When would you pick a non-terrain bonus? First of all, If you don't really have a good terrain setup, you might pick a long-haul bonus. The production bonuses are situationally strong. Craftsmen is essentially Republic 2.0 and you'll probably be getting both in a wide strategy. The first few hammers in a city are always really powerful (the second hammer is essentially doubling your production rate :P).

Messenger, Ancestors, and Love Goddess are good for a wide strategy, but are more beneficial later on so you might pick one that lines up with your victory type.

If you've got marble, and are going for a tall cultural victory (or just have a really early wonder you want to make sure you snag) then Monument looks really good. I just finished a game with Egypt and took this and OMG Wonders! Again, probably weaker on high difficulties since wonders are hard to get.

Settlements to me look like a tall bonus, unless you are going wide, are never going to open tradition, and want to discourage the AI from settling in between your cities. I don't see them being very useful - a wide empire either conquers or places cities to take territory, and a tall empire takes Tradition pretty reliably. Food is always good for tall strategies, but might cause happiness issues in a wide empire. Protection is for turtling up in your cities and teching/culturing your way to victory.

TLDR:

Priority list go!

1. Pick a terrain-based faith bonus if you have the matching territory and think you have a shot at founding one of the first religions (difficulty dependent).
2. Pick a terrain-based culture bonus if you can get say, 4+ cpt from it in the first 50 or so turns.
3. Pick a production bonus that fits your overall empire management (Wide = Craftsmen, Tall/Wonders = Monuments).
4. Pick something that fits your long-term strategy (example: Messenger for wide science victories, Goddess of love for domination or puppeting strategies).

Obviously, for certain strategies, especially civ-specific ones, you might pick differently, but this is what I've been operating from on a general basis.

Relgious beliefs:

Founder beliefs give benefits (mostly happiness/gold) for spreading your religion. Follower beliefs give benefits (mostly faith/culture/happiness) to your own cities for your religion. Enhancer beliefs are for helping you spread your religion or to help with warfare.

Founder:

Ceremonial Burial is probably the strongest (compare 1 happiness to 1 cpt or 1 fpt) especially for a wide/puppet strategy. Gold just supports everything in this game, especially helpful for Tall strategies where you won't have as many trading posts, and Tithes and Church property are great. I feel like faith at this point is less strong since you are no longer worried about getting a religion first. World Church and Pilgrimage seem weak. 12 cities converted is a lot harder than just allying with a cultural CS.

Follower:

Pick what fits your overall strategy. I always like to pick one that lets me build a building (Pagodas are awesome in general, Cathedrals are nice for the extra specialist slot for cultural victories), and then pick one that gives a general benefit. That way you are still benefiting from faith once you're done spreading/enhancing your religion but you haven't hit the industrial era yet. Hammers are generally scarce in this game so Religious Community seems pretty strong (goes well with Craftsmen or, situationally, God of the Sea pantheons).

(Does anyone know if Religious Art provides the benefit only in the city where you build Hermitage or in every city with the religion? I haven't actually taken it yet).

Enhancer:

Religious Texts is really strong for spreading your religion. Just War is nice for conquering cities on your own continent. Defender is good for turtling strategies, or for defending toeholds in enemy territory. Messiah seems to combine the benefits of Holy Order and Missionary Zeal. Missionary Zeal might be really powerful with the Mosque of Djenne (I haven't tried it yet). Reliquary seems undertuned, and again your infrastructure should take care of most of your faith needs.
 
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