Reloads.

[crunch]

BTW, is it OK if I submit the initial save with warrior and/or settler moved? Because usually only after moving them I see whether the start is any good or not.

Also, I've just reloaded the initial autosave and went through the regeneration torture once again. I was worried that I would not get the same start again because I'm popping huts in 4000 BC and this could affect the random generator. But it does not.

Also, on Tiny Great Plains with 11 AI it is possible to contact AI on the first turn. These contacts remain even after regen... There's not much I can do about that... Is this a problem?

 

[superslug]

BTW, is it OK if I submit the initial save with warrior and/or settler moved? Because usually only after moving them I see whether the start is any good or not.

Not a problem, as long as it's still 4000bc.

Also, on Tiny Great Plains with 11 AI it is possible to contact AI on the first turn. These contacts remain even after regen... There's not much I can do about that... Is this a problem?

It's not a problem for the Beta HOF. Not sure about the permanent one just yet.

 

[Kalleyao]

The case by case situations of reload-problem submissions has been on the rise lately, so I thought this might be worth a thread specific reminder to everyone.

We know not all players have the time (or sometimes desire) to play a full hour every time you play, but be advised that anything less a half an hour session may not meet Hall of Fame standards.

Hm, did I misunderstand? You're allowed to reload if you do it once and play for more than half hour before saving. Then you can quit and continue playing another day when you feel for just if you play more than half hour, correct?

 

[superslug]

Hm, did I misunderstand? You're allowed to reload if you do it once and play for more than half hour before saving. Then you can quit and continue playing another day when you feel for just if you play more than half hour, correct?

Your play sessions need to be at least half an hour (although it's likely we'll require a full hour later on). At the end of your session, you must save the game. When you start a new session, you must start with your most recent save. You're not allowed to "go back in time" to an earlier save.

Does this help?

 

[Kalleyao]

At the end of your session, you must save the game

Thanks, now I got it. Another question btw, is that reloaded save file a must have for you to accept the game?

 

[superslug]

Thanks, now I got it. Another question btw, is that reloaded save file a must have for you to accept the game?

We need a save file from the 4000bc turn, and the final save from the turn after you win. 1000bc, 10ad and 1000ad are recommended but optional.

 

[A_Turkish_Guy]

last night i made a mistake.i loaded the last (not a previous save) save and quit.i do nothing.changed nothing.just checked for worker number, score ,population and land area to compare with another game.and game is good and continue the game.is it a problem for HoF rules?.(game is too good and i really want to continue the game).

 

[superslug]

i do nothing.changed nothing.

Since you didn't play at all, you're okay.

 

[WastinTime]

I think we need to open this discussion again. We went through a long, long beta, but only now are we discovering the flaws in the system. I guess that's because the system was not in place until version 1.61.003. With the (admittedly minor) instability of Civ IV--and Windows in general, along with power hits, etc. too many honest games are being excluded. I can't even think of attempting the Major Gauntlet. I'll be shocked if you get one valid submission. I wasn't even able to get a clean run out of the minor Gauntlets. G-minor 2 is actually a long game. I'd say 10+ hours. I believe the hall of fame will die a slow death if too many people get annoyed by this.

"It's better to let 10 guilty men go free than one innocent be punished."

Instead of exluding all the honest games we spend hours and hours on. Let a reload sneak in as long as it's not abusive. If someone reloads one time in a 40 hour game, let it go! Whether it was an honest crash or not. If they've submitted it, they're claiming it was an honest mistake. Even if, for example, they hit the domination limit accidentally and want to go back one turn. Who cares! I don't. One could even argue that the game shouldn't even trigger a domination win until you END a turn with the proper %...but I digress.

Take Netflix for example -- online DVD rental. If I lose a disc in the mail. I tell them so, and they don't charge me. I could have lied and just kept the disc. If I abuse this system and claim too many lost discs, I will be punished then, not before.

 

[superslug]

We know there's hesistation about the G-Major, but this is the first we've heard of general fear to play. Anyone else feel this way?

 

[Miraculix]

We know there's hesistation about the G-Major, but this is the first we've heard of general fear to play. Anyone else feel this way?

I am not afraid of attempting the Gauntlet Major I at all. I have played CIV IV for several hours each week since last November. So far, I haven't had one single crash. Some of the games have been quick conquest games of less than 15 min. But I have also played at least 20 games that lasted more than 10 hours each.

Having said that, I must admit I have not tried the most demanding games like Huge domination on higher difficulty levels. I believe the most demanding game with respect to PC resources was a Huge Settler game with about 50 cities.

I have been playing on two different computers, one laptop and one desktop, both fairly state-of-the-art.

 

[Thrar]

It seems like I'm blessed with a pretty stable system (laptop about 1 year old), OS and game; IIRC it didn't crash on me a single time. So for me, the current reloading policy is absolutely fine.
If it turns out that there are many people to whom crashes are to be expected in long games, I can understand that it might not work well this way generally, though. I have attempted the Major-1 gauntlet, but in the two attempts that were promising (each well over 10 hours already), I stopped because it wasn't much fun any more, too much boring maintenance work.

If you make it a rule to accept reloads under a certain threshold, to say "X crashes per game can happen", that's just an invitation to reload X times. If for a really long and probably crash-sensitive game like the major-1 someone has a reload or two, saying those were due to crashes, I think you could decide those on a case-by-case basis. A general rule permits too much abuse.

 

[Miraculix]

Is it possible to configure the game to make an autosave every turn? If that is possible, one could allow reloads only from the most recent autosave, which will limit the potential abuse.

 

[superslug]

Is it possible to configure the game to make an autosave every turn?

Yes, it is.

If that is possible, one could allow reloads only from the most recent autosave, which will limit the potential abuse.

If we loosen the policy, it would probably be something along those lines.

 

[dutchfire]

Abuse is even possible with save random seed.
Save...
Attack with highly promoted, important unit
Lose..
Reload
Attack with a useless unit that gets killed
Save...
Try again.

This will prevent your most important units getting killed.

 

[superslug]

Abuse is even possible with save random seed.
Save...
Attack with highly promoted, important unit
Lose..
Reload
Attack with a useless unit that gets killed
Save...
Try again.

This will prevent your most important units getting killed.

That sort of abuse is certainly possible in Civ games. It'll reduce that game's chance of being published in the Hall of Fame to damn near zero, but the abuse is technically possible.

 

[superslug]

Is it possible to configure the game to make an autosave every turn? If that is possible, one could allow reloads only from the most recent autosave, which will limit the potential abuse.

There's a staff consensus now that this is the way to proceed. So, the good news is that we will have an exception in the rules for crash related reloads. The bad news is that I haven't had time to figure out all the technical details, so we don't have it yet.

On the other hand, if anyone was shying away from G Major 1 due to the Huge map implications, G Major 2 has been released a month ahead of schedule. It's Deity, but it's also Standard. Hopefully that'll be less of a technical burden...

 

[berserks01]

Is it considered reloading if instead of loading up a manual save you load up the auto saved?

 

[superslug]

Is it considered reloading if instead of loading up a manual save you load up the auto saved?

If you've done any playing since the autosave, then yes. The "crime" isn't reloading per se, but replaying.

While having autosaves set to every turn is highly recommended, you should end each session with a manual save and reload that one.

 

[csarmi]

Setting autosave for every turn can be problematic though, especially for those who might crash sometimes. For example, my memory is low and saving takes almost a minute... now that for every turn would be a pain

btw I don'T understand all this hassle about reloading:

1) If someone wants to reload/replay/see ahead into the future just to have a better game, there is no way you can stop him from doing that

2) In what way is it any bigger cheating than regenerating the map until you get a nice one?