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[OmEgA-X1]

Well in the initial stages of construction, the AI Workers need to connect resources FIRST, and put an emphasis on strategic resources, and use the rivers in the connection process, once all needed resources are connected, is when the AI should city-link. I don't think thats too unreasonable. Maybe make it an option, I'm sure BetterAI can better the AI on this

*and make sure All cities are on the trade network before city-linking
Maybe have an automated worker emphasis control panel, like for the city??

 

[cymru_man]

AFAIK a hill with a mine does not need to have a road to have a chance of randomly discovering a resource; the tile just needs to be worked (unless thats been changed in BetterAI).

No gameplay changes in BetterAI. And I think you are right on this.

 

[Uncle_Joe]

Here is a screenshot of some of the 'overfarming' that the AI does.

Do the AIs actually try and use a Specialist econ? And even if they do, how much benefit can it get from a size 9 city trying to do it with this many farms. That is an insane amount of food being produced in their capital.

Note that Cyrus had other piddly little cities surrounding his capital that were also completely overfarmed. I believe this is probably a pretty bad waste for the AIs. Am I just missing something here?

 

[Wodan]

Here is a screenshot of some of the 'overfarming' that the AI does.

Do the AIs actually try and use a Specialist econ? And even if they do, how much benefit can it get from a size 9 city trying to do it with this many farms. That is an insane amount of food being produced in their capital.

Note that Cyrus had other piddly little cities surrounding his capital that were also completely overfarmed. I believe this is probably a pretty bad waste for the AIs. Am I just missing something here?

Do you know for sure that those cities have always been in their present size? The AI does a better job of whipping/drafting now. So, if he's been in a war, the city sizes might well be smaller than they were or could be.

That said, you might have something. I still think the AI might be under-roading a bit.

Wodan

 

[Sofista]

I... think I recall the team explaining that the preference for farms was part of Cyrus' programming. So this is the famous "personality" no one wants to take out of the game.

 

[Uncle_Joe]

Do you know for sure that those cities have always been in their present size? The AI does a better job of whipping/drafting now. So, if he's been in a war, the city sizes might well be smaller than they were or could be.

Yeah, but if you are using your size 9 city to continuously whip, then you arent being very efficient. And whipping doesnt bring in the research. Cyrus has been a backwards noodge the entire game.

Whipping was THE strategy when Civ4 first came out (and the rounding bug was discovered). It has been eventually patched to the point where its no longer the no-brainer that it once was. Having your economy relying on whipping is a bad idea IMO, especially this late in the game (Renaissance Era).

And I see this in many AI cities that are never amounting to anything. I dont think its a one-time issue.

 

[Uncle_Joe]

I... think I recall the team explaining that the preference for farms was part of Cyrus' programming. So this is the famous "personality" no one wants to take out of the game.

I dont recall seeing that, but is it really better to have the personality be 'inefficient'? If there were some great benefit from the farms, by all means, let him do it. But when it means that the AI essentially just becomes a dead player waiting to be conquered? No thanks.

 

[zarakand]

I know this has been reported before, but I just wanted to reinforce it. The AI is building way too many spearmen, and now no defensive units at all.

 

[Wodan]

Uncle Joe,

I was talking about emergency whipping units in wartime, while you're talking about whipping as part of economics. Two entirely different things....

Wodan

 

[Uncle_Joe]

Ah OK, gotcha. No, he has been at peace for some time. And yep, his cities have been limited in size (probably by happiness more than anything else).

 

[Roland Johansen]

I dont recall seeing that, but is it really better to have the personality be 'inefficient'? If there were some great benefit from the farms, by all means, let him do it. But when it means that the AI essentially just becomes a dead player waiting to be conquered? No thanks.

I was the one that reported this issue a while back when the betterAI mod was still discussed in one long thread. And I indeed got the answer that it has to do with the building preferences of the Cyrus AI. Cyrus likes farms.

By the way, I personally think that some terrain building preferences are fun for the personalities of the AI. But it must remain minor and not hurt their economies too much. But it's probably hard to get the AI to build a specific number of cottages while the next AI build 5% more farms and a third AI 5% more workshops.

It's not a bad thing to see this reported again.

By the way, whipping is still the most efficient way of production for small cities with a granary (even after the rounding bug was removed). It's not very efficient for larger cities (10+), later in the game. Of course, it doesn't make sense to not build cottages and only farms for even more whipping. Especially since too high growth rates aren't very useful for whipping as the negative happiness effect still requires time to dissapear. Whipping is especially useful if you whip 2 citizens at once and not very efficient if you only whip 1 citizen.

Somewhat later in the game, when multiple buildings that enable specialists are available, Cyrus could run a specialist economy. That could work. But the problem is that Cyrus also builds massive amounts of farms before he has the buildings to enable specialists.

 

[Shynji]

Thought this was a little odd in my current game. Prince Epic Continents Standard using 12 Feb 2007 better AI version. Isabelli is the only one on the island with me, yet she hasn't expanded at all. Year is currently 940 BC and she's had a settler sitting in Madrid ever since I learned writing, ~30 turns ago. Provided an image of the current layout, though I'm actually heading my scout back her direction to see where she places a settlement if she does indeed do so.

 

[Shynji]

Here's a quick follow up:




I decided to attack since I already had swordsmen, but I do believe there has to be something wrong here. Took out one warrior already.

 

[jkp1187]

Here's a quick follow up:

View attachment 148444


I decided to attack since I already had swordsmen, but I do believe there has to be something wrong here. Took out one warrior already.

Gosh. You sure you're playing on Prince?

 

[Shynji]

Yup, I'm in 5th place overall, and when repeating the same map, same thing happens to Isabella time and again.

 

[9RedWing19]

Current game: Pangea / Prince / Normal / Standard

I'm playing Isabella (having Monty as a vassal); it's 1950 and Ragnar has just declared war. He is slightly behind me in armed forces strength, but ahead in tech. I have Flight (and hence lots of Gunships) and he does not. He sends lone tanks over the border (some sort of scouting force in his mind ???). I send out a Gunship from the nearest border town (I have an extensive railroad system), pick off the tank, and return to the city to heal. It's like he thinks that because he doesn't have gunships the enemy won't have them either.

 

[Doomed_UK]

3 AI 3 Human players, quick speed, inland sea.
Think of the layout as a clock, we had AI Brennus at 1 O'clock, AI Zulu at 3 O'Clock, Human at 5 O'Clock, AI Chinese at 7 O'Clock, me at 9 O'Clock and human at 12 O'Clock.

The human at 5 O'clock notices that the chinese have walked a great artist through his territory and into the Zulu's territory.

I have also seen this odd pathing with a great general when playing a single player with inland sea.

 

[Shynji]

I should note, having played through it a little more, that the other civs are fully formed. I'm not sure what happened with Isabella, but every game it seemed to happen that way. One game I played, she actually founded another city, on a forested tundra mountain on the coast (see post #193, is the spot just inside the lower left-hand side of the border), but in my opinion it seems like a horrible spot... 1 grassland hill & 1 grassland (shared), both on a river, 5 tundra (3 on river), 2 tundra hill (1 on river), and the rest as coast, no resources. This could be a viable mid-game filler settlement for commerce, but as your second city, it was horrible. In this particular game, she started to rush settlers for cities when I attacked her and broke whatever algorithm she was using.

In the game represented by 192 & 193, she had bronzeworking and slavery, but didn't finish the mine for some reason. It only took my worker 2 turns to complete it after I captured Madrid and rioting was over.

 

[jkp1187]

Some reflections on the most recent build:

(Standard/Prince/Tectonics/city flipping after conquest/must kill all units to conquer)

1.) I am noticing some good counterattacking with artillery and defensive units when the AI has an advantage. In my most recent game, the Zulus, despite being completely on the defensive, nearly destroyed a force of 9 tanks (I think they took down six and severely damaged the survivors) with a combination of artillery, infantry, and SAM Inf.

2.) I am still noticing, however, the AI blindly focusing on building some things that it shouldn't in an emergency. Despite my army bearing down on one of their last cities, the Zulus were still building the Apollo Program there.

3.) I also noticed an unusually large population of destroyers parked in that city, despite the fact that I was threatening to take it -- and also despite the fact that I was using my fleet and occasionally shipping troops back and forth. Now there HAD been some fast and furious naval combat at the start of the war, and my aircraft had dinged most of their ships even if I couldn't engage them in the water. It's possible that they were repairing, and it's also possible that, given my air superiority, the Zulus didn't want to sortie their fleet unless a ship moved within easy range of port, to prevent air attacks, but it seems pretty foolish to wait in port when they might be able to do some damage by going out on the high seas.

4.) I noticed that the AI, where appropriate, is aggressively building ships, and using them in a "picket line", off their coast, with typically two to three ships per picket. Very nicely implemented.

5.) I am not sure if the AI is handling play under the "city flipping after conquest" well. I noticed that in one game, Stalin was at war with Mansa. Although Stalin had reduced Mansa to one city, he wasn't making any progress. It looked as though he placed all of his offensive units in the most recently-taken city (presumably to prevent a culture flip,) and was not attempting to take Mansa's last city (which he probably could've done given his overall strength). I think the AI needs to learn that, in this circumstance, it may be wiser to press on the offensive to finish off the enemy. (Disclaimer: Mansa never capitulated, so it's possible he was able to chew up several attacks from Stalin while holed up in his capital. I did not look at this using Worldbuilder.)

 

[Quagga]

I saw another Machine Gun oddity last night using the most recent Better AI build. Mao sent an MG into my vassal's borders while we were at war with him. I saw it go from China into Monty's land. This was a lone MG, not part of a larger attack group. As far as I could see, there could have been no purpose in this mission. The MG disappeared on the next turn (probably killed).