Request For Change: Deity level and the 2nd band of Homo Sapiens.

[Noriad]

At Deity difficulty level, the AI gets 2 settler units at start instead of one (in case of C2C, this settler unit is the Band of Homo Sapiens unit). This is an important reason why in vanilla BTS, Deity is much more difficult than Immortal.

Unfortunately, in C2C, this second Band of Homo Sapiens is currently not that useful for the AI. In C2C version 33, the AI usually settled its second city as fast as possible, only to lose it a while later. The first city is defended by a Tribal Guardian unit, which is tough enough, but the second city was usually only defended by 2 stone throwers (strength 1), which is not a reliable defense against attacks from multiple Neanderthal barbarians (strength 3).

In current C2C (SVN version 7993, 28 sept 2014) at deity, I found that the AI only settles one city and leaves his second Band of Homo Sapiens inside this city. Then many turns later, it eventually sends out his second Band of Homo Sapiens, lightly escorted (by 2 stone throwers). Since the animals have become much more dangerous by then (e.g. strength 4 gorillas) there is a good chance this second Band of Homo Sapiens will die en route.

So I propose the following changes together:

1) any city created from a Band of Homo Sapiens should get a Tribal Guardian, not just the first. This will make the AI keep its 2nd city instead of losing it.

2) Since Band of Homo Sapiens is only available at the beginning, when there are no animals or barbarians, it should grab a military escort (preferably speed-2 wanderers) and run to another city location as quickly as possible. No reason to be scared of barbarian ducks since there aren't any yet. The benefits of quickly founding a 2nd city far outweighs the small risks in the first few turns, especially since there is an autobuilding at anarchism civic that lowers city maintenance by 90%, and the risks only increase with time.

I hope this will go a long way towards making the game more challenging at Deity difficulty. I play BTS at Deity, but C2C Deity feels more like Monarch/Emperor difficulty.

The last few days I started a new game but mid Ancient Era I already fully conquered three AI civs (all of which were there at start) and part of another civ, giving me European, South and North American cultures aside from Middle Eastern which I started with. I also was tech leader. As my score was number 1 and 50% higher than the next best competitor, I felt like I already won the game. I love the rich features of C2C but I want a challenge too.

 

[Thunderbrd]

There are numerous things we need to do to get the game smoothly challenging past a certain point but this adds a few good observations and to-do's to that list. Thanks!

 

[strategyonly]

I hope this will go a long way towards making the game more challenging at Deity difficulty. I play BTS at Deity, but C2C Deity feels more like Monarch/Emperor difficulty.

Have you tried the Nightmare Mode in the game options starts?? That "should" be waaay more challenging, i hope.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

1) any city created from a Band of Homo Sapiens should get a Tribal Guardian, not just the first. This will make the AI keep its 2nd city instead of losing it.

As mentioned elsewhere this is not currently possible via python because the type of unit founding the city is not known to python except for human players.

Since the Tribal Guardian is only available at the start and no other settler unit is available until Tribalism it would be easy to change Platyping's code to add a free Tribal Guardian to all cities settled before Tribalism.

 

[Noriad]

As mentioned elsewhere this is not currently possible via python because the type of unit founding the city is not known to python except for human players.

Since the Tribal Guardian is only available at the start and no other settler unit is available until Tribalism it would be easy to change Platyping's code to add a free Tribal Guardian to all cities settled before Tribalism.

I have played the civ 4 Fall from heaven 2 mod. In this mod you have spellcaster units that can summon a skeleton (new unit) in their location.

Isn't it easier to give the Band of Homo Sapiens unit a special button that looks exactly like a 'settle here' button but does 2 things in quick succession: 1) summon a Tribal Guardian 2) create new city (in that order).

(Or whatever the AI does instead of pushing a button)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Isn't it easier to give the Band of Homo Sapiens unit a special button that looks exactly like a 'settle here' button but does 2 things in quick succession: 1) summon a Tribal Guardian 2) create new city (in that order).

No it is much more complicated since you would need to create a new mission and get the ai to consider it as good as founding a city.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yeah, but this:

Since the Tribal Guardian is only available at the start and no other settler unit is available until Tribalism it would be easy to change Platyping's code to add a free Tribal Guardian to all cities settled before Tribalism.

Strikes me as a great way to go! Might have to turn the effect off if we're playing with Nomadic Start (doooooown the road) but for now it would work quite nicely.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Platyping's mod is very flexiable allowing you to do all sorts of things as well as restrict what they are by technology. I can't work on that here as I don't have it on my laptop. I am using the local library maching for internet access with no ability to download or upload stuff.

If we get Nomadic start working the Nomad unit would be a type of moving city, as far as the interface goes. I am still nowhere near getting this working but I am convinced it can be done. The Nomad unit may be able to settle as a city but is more likely to settle as a 'temporary settlement" which is a different type of city again, one that will eventually have to turn into a city or move on.

 

[Arakhor]

I agree with Thunderbird. It sounds like a really simple change (popping a Tribal Guardian with all pre-Tribal "cities").