Request partners; MARS mod

[Smoking mirror]

I'm going to do the earliest units, Such as a settler, worker and a guy with a lead pipe, all wearing space suits; A worker wearing a light weight walker-suit as well as a security guard in the same getup armed with a primative gun (probably gas powered). I'd like to make some heavy duty walker suits with light armour plates and some improved weapons to represent Earth forces. Also a, Explorer bot, mars rover, automated rover/worker/bot (50% efficiency, no upkeep cost) and automated sentry gun.

Many of the later units could be found in the units forum, though perhaps some recolouring work would be needed (such as Bebro's X-com unit changed from blue to red).

And here is a tabletop veiw of the simulator;

 

[MaisseArsouye]

This is a very impressive work

The point is WHEN do you want your scen to begin ?

I could be cool to have some special terrain graphic set with virgin mars lands and terraformed ones. Something like red deserts, mountains and hills, yellowish plains and green grasslands.

 

[Smoking mirror]

Well, When I Oriningaly had the idea for a mars mod back in 2002we didn't have conquests, so the only option for game type was the epic game. I planned back then to have three epic games, based on the books.

However, now with conquests there is the possibility to have more scenario based games, with resource collection, victory point grabbing etc... allowing for shorter more focused games. I think what would be good now is to have three scenario folders, each with a set of terrain tiles, buildings and resources etc... and within each of those you could have a couple of different scenarios with a custom map and unit data etc...

For instance the first scenario would use the first terrain folder, Virgin mars terrain. It would focus on the very first settlements to be founded on mars. They would consist of only few dozen people per city and would likley all be within close relationship for saftey. Because of this you could focus in on a single area, such as valles marinaris or the Hellas Basin, rather than the whole planet. You would be limited in what civs you could choose and the aim of the game would be to identify and mine the early resources needed for life on mars, and return them to your capital. You would have limited settlers available to start with and cities would be limited to size one so you couldn't build any more. You'd need to judge where best to place your early cities to get the best haul of resources. Perhaps it would be good to have the best resources (those that spawn treasure most often from their associated buildings) only become visible with certain techs, so you'd have to delay your city placement until you were sure where they would be.

Depending on who won the first scenario you would then load up the next one from a list;

americanswin1.bic
russianswin1.bic ETC...

The winner of the previous scenario would gain perhaps a bonus to techs or starting units. I'd recomend that the second scenario would take place only using the northern hemiphere as the map, and would be about grabbing land and securing the resources to build an armed orbital station (would allow ICBMs). Alternativly at this point you could go for a diplomatic victory.

The second set of scenarios would be;

unitedbyforce.bic
uniteddiplomacy.bic

And would decide the state of the martian nation when earth troops arrive. A martian nation united by force would be backward in tech but would have good military forces, a peacfull nation would have better techs, larger cities and industry but less military forces with which to protect itself. The third scenario would be a victory point grabbing mission, with the martian nation atempting to withstand the armed might of earth.

The next scenario would track the development of Mars after the first colonial war and would use the second set of terrain types...

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

sounds nearly exactly like my project Smoke... http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97395&page=1

 

[Smoking mirror]

sounds nearly exactly like my project Smoke... http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97395&page=1

Well, I want to stay away from Earth Future history because it is very complicated and people have very deffinate opinions on it. Even in The Mars trillogy Robinson has to resort to a global natural disaster (a volcano erupting under Antartica) rather than having the water level rise through global warming (People in the US don't really belive that global warming is a threat, thier belief in the scientific and economic power of thier country leads them to see it as just another hurdle that can be overcome by hard work, determination and the good old american "can do" attitude).

Initial settlement;
I still think that the very first voyages to mars will be made by nations rather than private venture. It's just to much of a risk with little ecconimic return.
Later when the vaiability of the surface and the absence of leathal biological threats have been established, then most of the actual investment will be by private companies, or by smaller nations, in effect transforming themselves in to corporate entities.

One of the most successful nations would be China, as they are already one giant corporate entity, with little to no difference between public and private ecconomic arenas. They would be one of the most likely to form an initial research base, and also to follow it up with additional investment.

Probable events;
The tension between capital investment (sending people and equipment to Mars) and asset realisation (those people using that equipment to send resources back to earth) would inevitably lead to a colonial atmosphere, with the popualtion on Mars being indentured to a government which they have no say in. This tesion could be mitigated by sending convicts or the very poor to Mars to work in the mines and cities, and allowing them a stake in terran government or a share in the asset realisation. However tension would always eventualy surface because the citizens of mars would be more inclined to work towards the betterment of life on mars than sending resources back to earth. The first probable event therefore would be a colonial war, which Mars would eventualy be destined to win, or spend eternity under the yoke of imperial dominion. This patern would continue around the solar system untill it resulted in a system-wide civil war. The second probable event therefore would be part of a much larger civil in which mars would struggle to retain it's global identity while internal tensions built upon the composition of the original settlements, and subsequent divisions in society threaten to tear it apart. This would likely lead to a politicaly devolved Mars, with each region having it's own political and philosophical identy. The only other probable event that can be predicted is that at some point mars would make a good base for the launching of a colonisation prject of it's own outside the solar system.

 

[Smoking mirror]

Just been working on the models for the first units.
They would be like multi units, with a human accompanied by a robot crawler to carry the equipment. No human would go out alone on mars without some robotic assistance, it'd be suicide.

For the walker suit (the one on the right) I tried to make it quite robust, imagine being on mars millions of miles from assistance and you dfammage your only means of getting around on the surface. It'd have to be very reliable and tough, with replacement parts easy to manufacture, so single eye sockets rather than a large bubble dome.

Any comments?

 

[Ozymandias]

I like the approach -- for a nice, "hardened" look along similar lines, check out SF3D -- there's a good model gallery at:

http://home.att.net/~mak3000/hm.html

-Oz

 

[Smoking mirror]

I like the approach -- for a nice, "hardened" look along similar lines, check out SF3D -- there's a good model gallery at:

http://home.att.net/~mak3000/hm.html

-Oz

Wow, just what I was thinking of for middle to later units.
The armoured fighting suit is a rare japanese creation, in that it is somewhat of a realistic proposition.

Obviously an AFV user would be quite encumbered by the suit, but the fact that you could practicaly walk through walls and perform other superhero related antics (such as fly) would make it quite usefull in an urban setting.

Later on the low martian G and wide expanses of rough terrain may actualy make larger mechs a viable idea, but they would require a very high tech level, and a large urban population to be usefull, perhaps being saved until the final scenarios where mars is fully terraformed.

BTW, I've made the body section of the space suit slightly smaller so that it's not confused with any later AFS type designs. For the first few units there is just going to be three basic designs, the textures and tools will change to represent different roles. Also there will be a number of small "rovers" to acompany them, some will just carry extra gear, while others will be armed with extra weapons.

 

[Smoking mirror]

Actualy I think it'd be cool if we had some textures done by different artists, So I'll post a zip file with the two blank textures. The first "plans" is used for both models, though obviously the helmet is deleted on the spaceman model. The second plan "helmet plan" is for the spaceman only and is acompanied by a transparency mask (already set up) for the bubble dome.

If you chose to make one, make sure you go over the edges other wise it can look a bit patchy where the textures don't quite fit. I've added some notes to the main texture to show what things are, the helmet texture has six objects;
Top left; Bubble dome and kneck brace, Make sure you don't go overboard with the texure where the dome meets the brace.
Top right; Decoration for the back of the helmet. Would make a good location for a vent.
Middle left; The middle of this object is transparent, only the edges will show and it is placed just below the helmet.
Middle right; The main body, the same texture is used for the front and the back, so avoid making it too detailed.
Bottom left; The back pack, the left end is the top, right end is the bottom.
Bottom right; Chest plate, This is where you should put your national symbol or picture of earth or whatever, Generaly the model will use a copy of this object on each knee, but I can leave that off if requested.

Here are the textures; textures

 

[GRM7584]

It may be a bit early, but if there is anything needed in terms of building graphics, I will make myself available; I must have played the Fantastic Worlds Mars scenario 100 times through to completion. I plan on doing another Colonize! mod in due time, albeit a sci-fi conversion with different planet types, so I'll need building graphics for that anyway.

On the down side, I can't offer much aside from static .pcx creation, so no units or LHs.

 

[Smoking mirror]

It may be a bit early, but if there is anything needed in terms of building graphics, I will make myself available; I must have played the Fantastic Worlds Mars scenario 100 times through to completion. I plan on doing another Colonize! mod in due time, albeit a sci-fi conversion with different planet types, so I'll need building graphics for that anyway.

On the down side, I can't offer much aside from static .pcx creation, so no units or LHs.

Thats fine, any help would be apreciated. We need to make a list of buildings though...

 

[Smoking mirror]

I've seen some good ideas for cities, the early ones are going to be fairly primative, made up of bits of rocket, inflatable tents, parked rovers and concrete pillboxes etc.. later in the first age they will be more like actual built buildings, with much of the structures extending far underground.


EDIT; Most early terrain art removed. I'll leave this one for colour samples.

 

[Ozymandias]

It looks very nice, although perhaps a bit on the dark side ... ?

-Oz

 

[GRM7584]

I'd say increase the redness saturation by a tiny bit and increase the lightness significantly, It looks rather good though, in terms of texture and craters.

 

[Steel General]

I agree...kinda dark. Hurt my eyes trying to see the details.

But a good start none-the-less.

 

[Plotinus]

As you are probably aware Smoke, the Earth's water is blue because the sky is blue. If the sky were to be, say, pink, like on Mars, then you'd have Pepto-Bismal colored water( )

Actually, water really is blue - it's not just reflecting the sky. So quite what colour large bodies of water on Mars would look like before the sky went blue I'm not sure - I doubt it would be very pretty though!

This all looks great. With the terrain, bear in mind that Mars is not overly cratered - it's not like the Moon. Most of the craters on Mars are on the higher land in the southern hemisphere. Mars really is a planet of two hemispheres in a way that Earth is not. The southern hemisphere is higher and older, more cratered, and colder. The northern hemisphere is lower and flatter. Mars' highly elliptical orbit means that the northern hemisphere has a short, mild winter and a long, cool summer, while the southern hemisphere has a long, cold winter and a short, hot (well, relatively) summer. I don't know how you could simulate all of this, but I think different kinds of terrain would be important, reflecting the harsher conditions in the south and the relatively mild ones in the north.

 

[Smoking mirror]

A few quick responses, I didn't have time to include a detailed explanation so heres some info;

Actually, water really is blue - it's not just reflecting the sky. So quite what colour large bodies of water on Mars would look like before the sky went blue I'm not sure - I doubt it would be very pretty though!

Yep, its the other way around, one of the reasons the earth's sky is blue because the sea is blue. The sea is blue beacuse of the other reasons that the sky is blue. Certain frequencies of light are absorbed by the water (or water vapour) while others are reflected. In deep water red light is one of the first colours to be absorbed, so the seas on mars would likley be quite dark.

It looks very nice, although perhaps a bit on the dark side ... ?

The dark bits are desert and represent the black sands of the northern hemisphere. The lighter areas are sea, which in the early mod will represent aquafiers and frozen seas.

This all looks great. With the terrain, bear in mind that Mars is not overly cratered - it's not like the Moon. Most of the craters on Mars are on the higher land in the southern hemisphere.

Admitedly, the larger craters are in the southern half of the planet. However, if you get a realy hi res mosaic image of mars and zoom in on the north you will see that it is covered with lots of loose rocks and small craters. For the early scenarios I'm thinking of zooming in on a small area where this will be obvious. Later the cratered terrain will represent the southeren zone.

For now however I think that ther terrain will be;
Desert > sandy deserts, mostly black sand.
plains > Lightly cratered terrain.
Grassland > relativly smooth terrain.
Hills & mountains > Hopefully I can get these to look like two different height highlands.
Snow capped mountains > if the above works out ok these will be large craters or volcano mouths in the highland.
Swamp > shouldn't be too difficult to make these in to crazed canyons
Jungle > large craters
Forest > will probably use this to start with as rocky uplands to give the southeren highlands more veriaty.
Coast/sea/rivers > frozen surface water.

Last but not least the above images are slightly doctored, the edges have been blured and more craters ahve been added. Hopefully once I get all the Masks set up and saved ready to add the terrain.

This version, however, has no aftereffects, this is a raw capture from CIVedit. This is the hardest parts of the first eras graphics done. Hopefully the add on terrain such as swamps jungles etc... should be fairly easy, just a matter of some BMP brush action. The hills/mountains etc... may be a little more difficult.

 

[GRM7584]

Thats a good mix of terrain; you are certainly getting this done quickly. For canyons, mine are entirely up for grabs in terms of any imaginable alteration or aberration, if thats of any help whatsoever.

Have you considered what your final graphics will be for roads, mines, and the like?

 

[Smoking mirror]

Thats a good mix of terrain; you are certainly getting this done quickly. For canyons, mine are entirely up for grabs in terms of any imaginable alteration or aberration, if thats of any help whatsoever.

Have you considered what your final graphics will be for roads, mines, and the like?

Cool, What terrain base did you make it on? I'm thinking marshland would be a good one. (keep forgeting that I don't currently have conquests though, need to replace my broken disk). From experience I think it may actualy be easier to mod the terrain I've got than try to match colour to another terrain mod. However it may be possible to use a merging object set up in corel photopaint to get the colour and form from both... Have to give it a go tommorrow.

As I expected the hills/mountains are proving to be a major headache, first attempt is too bad even to post, its difficult getting them to line up with cut and paste guess work, so I think I'm going to have to try and logic it out like I did with the rest of the terrain.

For the roads and mines etc.. I think I'm going to have somewhat standard looking buildings for mines, not too different from Civ III for the first era, also roads will be simple dirt tracks with transponder beacons. Later it's going to get much more complicated but I want to get an early version working quite quickly, just to see if we can.
As I don't have conquests I'm going to need a volunteer to put the first mod togeter (add units, paste together civlopedia text etc..) once I've got all the graphics in a useable format.

Come on people get involved! Its going to move fast.

 

[WildWeazel]

The terrain looks great. The transitions could be a little less defined but I guess that might make some hard to distinguish. Keep up the good work!