Requesting help to get from King to Deity

[chemp]

First of all let me give my thanks to everyone on this forum. My game skill has improved greatly from reading the posts. I have lurked on this site for probably six plus months now and finally decided to ask a couple of questions to see if I can make the leap to diety.

My style of play is generally a Democracy, I try to get to Monarchy as quick as possible (using the tech path proposed a while back by ElephantU in a Beginning Tech Plan thread) and I try to expand very quickly. I understand the power of a SSC (although I think I need to do better and develop a TWIN city) and also trade routes.

My question is at what point do you start trading caravans/freight with AI cities. Generally early in the game I use my caravans to "prime the pump" and build wonders like COL MP and Mikes. I just read some posts talking about the benefits of having three trade routes in every city, so I am trying to decide at what point is it beneficial to trade with AI civs for the bonus instead of rushing to build certain wonders?

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Terrapin]

I just read some posts talking about the benefits of having three trade routes in every city, so I am trying to decide at what point is it beneficial to trade with AI civs for the bonus instead of rushing to build certain wonders?

Chemp, it looks like you are asking two different questions here. One is about trade routes, the extra arrows your cities get when a trade route is formed. The other is about the trade bonus, the one time payment in gold & beakers you receive when the initial delivery is made. The bonus is bigger for trade outside your own civ, but as far as I can tell, the trade routes are the same size for routes to foriegn and domestic cities.

Please except the caveat that I am nowhere near as good a player as the others on this board. That said, my strategy is to do a little domestic trading during monarchy to get the trade route arrows going. It does not yield much in cash or beakers, but the extra arrows really help in early Republic. One thing I have found in Diety is that I get beaten to Wonders, sometimes even the ones I really want, which means that I need fewer camels for that purpose.

 

[ElephantU]

The moment I get Trade I start building caravans in my SSC/STC for delivery to the largest nearby AI city. Other cities switch to building caravans to get key wonders in the STC. Sometimes the Science slider is even decreased in favor of Taxes for rush-buying rows towards the first set of caravans. If there is an AI city on the same "continent" as my STC, I'll deliver there and start building the "critical path" road. By the time I have 2-3 TRs there from the STC the city will start growing of its own accord, based on the extra arrows from me. Mid-game, a "critical path" RR connection (or a station city) to an AI city on the same continent will give the biggest Trade Routes. Second choice is a large AI city on another continent not too far away. If you are lucky (or you go through Samson's formulas for Supply and Demand), you should be able to lock in three TRs with a decent destination before your city grows enough to cause the Supply commodities to change.

Personally I try to get those three TRs for the STC as early as possible, maybe one for each of the other cities that are pumping out caravans or settlers. This will help with the switch to Republic, where you need some trade arrows to turn into Luxuries (multiplied by a Marketplace, when you have some spare cash to put them in). But in Deity, happiness and speed of advance is the name of the game, so you often have to make choices about techs and development. Keep your cities small (size 2-3) until you get Mikes in place, and focus development on the STC. Use a short period of Monarchy to prepare key terrain tiles for fast growth in Republic, and try to switch to Republic (or get a Celebrating Monarchy) before the majority of the early caravan deliveries. This will give extra gold, which you then plow back into caravans, Marketplaces and Temples to help the small cities along.

In Deity the AI research faster, build faster, and grow faster, so you need to keep ahead of them by avoiding military techs and planting many small cities in decent spots for future growth. Pick the key wonders you need for early growth (Mikes and Colossus definitely, HG worth considering; MPE to get early maps and tech trading and keep the AI off your back) and don't try to get them all. Don't build a big military early on; if you want to win by Conquest, wait till you have a leg up on techs first (and maybe some maps...), but don't let them get the GreatWall (build it yourself if someone is getting close). Once the STC becomes the powerhouse it should be, add TRs from nearby cities with RD/RR multipliers (be careful not to disturb the early AI ones) and you will be pulling away from the other civs in techs and gold. The rest is execution...

 

[Prof. Garfield]

The way I play, I go for collosus second (after MPE and preferably in a city with lots of rivers) and devellop that city. If I can snag HG*, I will switch to republic, but if I can't, I will wait untill I have mikes. In the early game I will make most diliveries to the STC untill I have most cities with 3 routes. I will also chose a couple of good foreighn cities to trade with, often rehomeing to the STC. Actualy, my strategy is much like Andu's Starlifter Sumery (check the index), so go read that.
*HG is very important for celebrateing in republic, and is thus more than just a way to do early republic.

 

[nsomniyak]

The biggest difference between low levels like King and Deity is of course the fact that on Deity your citizens get unhappy fast.

The first consequence of this is that you need to select your cities for early survival capability as well as long term growth. The FIRST two producing squares (the city square and the best premium square among the others in the city radius) have to generate enough food to begin filling your larder, or the city will be stillborn. Adding food through early irrigation can help here, as you can expect to have to make entertainers and lose production from one or more squares until you get HG, Mike's or the temples you need.

At Deity, you also need to get out of Despotism and into Monarchy ASAP, or your cities will go nowhere.

 

[nsomniyak]

Directly to your point--on Deity, I generally build Wonders to the exclusion of foreign trade early on, pre-building them (running in caravans, then switching to the wonder I want when I finally get that tech) if needed. I want to get Lighthouse, Marco Polo's, Great Wall if I can, and, most importantly, Sun Tzu's. In addition to Sun Tzu's, I usually can get at least 3 out of Lighthouse, Marco's, Pyramids, Hanging Gardens and Great Wall.

I don't build single-city wonders as my broad strategy is to out-produce the opponents using a web of many small cities. Among the early Wonders, I honestly don't care about Colossus-my cities never get really big enough to truly leverage it fully. I do try to capture AI wonder cities as strategic targets.

The Wonders with civ-wide or content-wide effect are hugely leveraged in this strategy--in addition to those above, Pyramids, Mike's, Magellan's etc. are great. I would rather capture the one-city wonders than build them. I will occasionally build King Richard's if I can beat the AIs to do it without compromising my ability to get a wonder I really want at that point.

There is one other beneficial effect of pursuing wonders early on--you can force the opponent AI civs into a significant waste of resources. If you beat an AI to an early Wonder, it will either switch to another (that you presumably care less about, assuming you have a lead in science or are at least equal, which means you at least as many Wonders available to you as to the AIs) or they will abandon their Wonder project. Though the AI civs presumably get the 50% recovery of the wonder shields into something else (a unit or an improvement), a lot of shields go up in smoke. Sometimes two or three civs will abandon their project if they don't have the tech available for others (humans would continue producing the wonder, then switch to a new wonder as research is completed). Early in the game, a Civ that lets half of an almost-produced wonder vaporize like this takes a real hit--that can be a large part of their GNP exxpended with nothing to show for it. It is particularly effective to complete your Wonder with a buy-in, or via some food caravans already at the wonder city, immediately after you get the "xxx have almost completed their great project, _____" message.

This works well in single player games aginst the AIs--have not tried it vs. humans.

 

[Peaster]

Welcome Chemp!

If you haven't seen these posts already, try -

* CivFanatics: Civ2 - Strategy and Tips / Deity Start-up Difficulties
* The Apolyton website, Civ2 / Forums / Strategy / Great Library, including
** "How to win at Deity" (approximate title) by Matthew
** DaveV's article on ICS (Inifinite City Strategy)

Some people don't like ICS, but this article has a lot of good advice about handling unhappiness and getting your civ off to a good start. You can always change styles later if you want.

* ElephantU didn't mention his "Tips and Tricks for new players" here at CivFanatics, but it has a lot of good stuff, too.
_________

I forgot to say this, because it is seems obvious... but just try it! Play a few games at Emperor until you feel OK and then try Deity. Some of your cities will probably riot before you expect it, but pretty soon you'll learn to deal with that by getting out of Despotism, and building HG (from caravans), etc. Keep 1-2 warriors or horsemen in each city.

Later in the game, you have options - either keep your cities small (as I do) or build temples/Oracle/Mike's etc to keep your bigger cities happy.

 

[Cataphract887]

thats cheating to rush a wonder on the turn you get that message

IMHO you should start on king\monarch and go up in level every few games,i started on king for first 3 games,then emp for 1 then diety right away after that.sure i lost every one,but i gained a lot of experiance(losing exp counts more than winning exp) and got used to unhappinessright away my 0.02 $

 

[scloopy]

Boy do you get used to unhappiness. Don't you like the cities with everyone but one as an entertainer, tax collector or scientist. I wonder why you don't have other choices, say accounts, city commissioners, lawyers and such.

 

[ElephantU]

Lord help us if they added lawyers to Civ4!

 

[Specialist290]

Lord help us if they added lawyers to Civ4!

They actually tried this in CTP and CTP2. Bad idea, I must say.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Yes, I can just see the pop-up window: "Worker injured on construction site during rush building. Jury finds government responsible and awards the plaintif 100 gold."

 

[scloopy]

Probably most of the litigation would be brought by the Americans. The only problem would be that they would probably be suing one another.

 

[Terrapin]

Each lawyer specialist gives the city -1 gold, -1 shield and -1 trade to reflect the lack of production in a litigious society. During poeriods of anarchy, all citizens who are lawyer specialists immediately die.

 

[scloopy]

Now that would make being in anarchy much less of a problem and at times something to look forward too.