I just found out that the AI always plays with the chieftain handicap. Chieftain is the default for the AI. Try to adjust the chieftain difficulty in the handicap xml.
Research Agreement Blocking
- Thread starter DaveMcW
- Start date
I just found out that the AI always plays with the chieftain handicap. Chieftain is the default for the AI. Try to adjust the chieftain difficulty in the handicap xml.
I've been RA blocking quite a lot, and have come up with a theory, the truth of which I am unsure. The only evidence I have is anecdotal, but it seems to me that if there are multiple techs with zero research, the one that you'll get is the one you research going into the end of the RA. So if I've got a RA expiring at the end of turn 270, and both, say, Plastics and Penicilin have 0 research at the beginning of that turn, if I chose to research Plastics for that turn, that's the tech I will get from the RA. Again, this is just a theory, but it has worked for me a good three of four times since I started getting suspicious about it. Possible coincidence. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
Airey
Prince
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- Feb 9, 2008
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good to know, thx for the info
This would put RA with basically no drawbacks, if no need to waste turn on blocking tech. I suspected RA was designed mainly for OCC to catch up. If it works with no penalty, pretty sure will get nerfed really soon.
Don't think too many people dare to try it without blocking before you bring this up. It's very high risk play, because too much uncertainty to leave so many techs open making tech path planning next to impossible. Good finding though...kind of suspicious.
I'll test it out a bit, and post up some results.
Edit: okay, after a bit of testing, I've determined that what I said is not the case (at least, I couldn't replicate the phenomenon, although the conditions weren't absolutely perfect). My new theory is that RAs will tend towards certain techs. Conspiracy theory FTW.
Edit 2: so I tried the same situation three times, and each time, with 6 otherwise equal techs for the RA to choose from (all 0 research), Currency was what came up.
Edit: okay, after a bit of testing, I've determined that what I said is not the case (at least, I couldn't replicate the phenomenon, although the conditions weren't absolutely perfect). My new theory is that RAs will tend towards certain techs. Conspiracy theory FTW.
Edit 2: so I tried the same situation three times, and each time, with 6 otherwise equal techs for the RA to choose from (all 0 research), Currency was what came up.
vexing
knows
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vexing
knows
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? you had random seed on or not?
without random seed checked, if you save before the RA completion turn, every time you reload and hit end turn you'll get the same tech.
maltz
King
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Thanks for sharing the formula.
May I add that the game, without the New Random Seed setting, rolls the random number dice on the turn before.
So if you really want to get a different RA result, load 2 tursn before.
For example, if the RA matures on Turn 100, load the autosave on Turn 98.
You can make the exactly identical decisions. Everything on Turn 99 will be the same.
But starting on Turn 100, it is a different game!
You can also load back to Turn 99 and change the blocking tech. That also makes a difference.
However, sometimes the game simply does not give all options.
Then you can try loading back from Turn 98, or 97, and sink a few points into techs that you don't want.
Some may call it exploit - but some may not.
In some gaming culture, understanding and beating the system is the fun.
May I add that the game, without the New Random Seed setting, rolls the random number dice on the turn before.
So if you really want to get a different RA result, load 2 tursn before.
For example, if the RA matures on Turn 100, load the autosave on Turn 98.
You can make the exactly identical decisions. Everything on Turn 99 will be the same.
But starting on Turn 100, it is a different game!
You can also load back to Turn 99 and change the blocking tech. That also makes a difference.
However, sometimes the game simply does not give all options.
Then you can try loading back from Turn 98, or 97, and sink a few points into techs that you don't want.
Some may call it exploit - but some may not.
In some gaming culture, understanding and beating the system is the fun.
vexing
knows
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- Dec 24, 2010
- Messages
- 2,668
no it doesn't. the random number generator always generates the same random numbers in the same order from the same seed. you change the outcome by doing something different.
as a highly simplified example the upcoming random numbers might be 3, 1, 4, 1, 5, 7.
you end your turn and get a 3 for RA outcome which happens to give you rifling.
you reload the game, and instead of ending your turn you bombard a city with your archer, that action gets the 3 (which maybe causes you to do one dmg), you end your turn and get a 1 for RA outcome which gives you chemistry.
reload and bombard the city twice, those actions get 3,1, you end your turn and get 4 which gives you military science.
the point is any time an event occurs that eats up a random number it potentially changes the outcome
Civ4Brains
imperfectus
Anyone know if the AI can block tech's?
Question about this. Am I correct in understanding that the AI gets the SAME tech as the human player? If so, that would obviously play in to what you get. But that can't be right, can it? Since there would be situations in which none of the same things would be available. So I guess the question is, does what the AI has available or has blocked in any way affect what the human player gets?
Playing last night and at least twice got techs that I believed were blocked with 0 research on a tech I wanted. I know that's theoretically possible after the last patch, but I'm curious about how much research I need to do to get that chance down to less than 10 percent. In both cases, I had done of couple of turns of research on techs that needed about 8 turns and was turned down for a tech that needed more than 20 and had no research done. Funny thing is, I keep popping GS in this game, so I'm getting the expensive techs that way most of the time anyway. But I'd still like to understand the rule better.
The experts here estimated, that you have to research a tech 33% to securely block it (20% before the patch).
Anyone who thinks that this is NOT an exploit, please justify your position.
Really hoping that this gets patched to only exclude the tech with the highest commitment (to prevent RAs from granting the tech currently being researched ONLY). Lots of people gonna have to learn how to play when this happens.
Really hoping that this gets patched to only exclude the tech with the highest commitment (to prevent RAs from granting the tech currently being researched ONLY). Lots of people gonna have to learn how to play when this happens.
Whatever the rules are, people will take advantage of them. Taking advantage of the rules is called an exploit by people who aren't clever enough to do it. If the "exploit" creates a substantial imbalance, then it may be that the rules should be changed. When they are changed, there will be new and different exploits. But if the new rules are effective, there will be less imbalance. If the new rules are ineffective, there may be no improvement or even worse imbalance. Simply throwing rules at problems does not fix them.
This principle of LIFE happens to also be true in Civ5.
Firvulag
Chieftain
Is it any more an exploit than switching build before completing something so it can be completed at the best time? (eg, GL left at 1 turn so you get your free tech the turn after completing one rather than earlier)
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