Knasp
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2011
- Messages
- 266
I agree that there were alternatives to the Eurasian development model(s)/agriculture and they definitely had other species and means for producing food. But I believe there were real limitations to these viable alternatives, which in my mind makes them less competitive (and that's what we're discussing right?). I'm not saying they didn't have agriculture. I'm just saying they didn't have the same intensity in production and rate of development (made possible by draft animals etc). And yes, the European colonisers were very ignorant (and ruthless).The current 'state of the research' makes your point, but in a slightly different way. There is now evidence that agriculture in some form in some areas developed in the so-called 'New World' just about as early as it did in the 'Old World'. This is still in debate, but it means that the 'established' temporal relationship between the two hemispheres in 'tech' development is open to question in some fields.
What is not open to question is that the Americas lacked specific resources: draft animals like horses and various breeds of cattle, that enabled them to use the wheel for efficient transport, and pull plows and therefore develop 'broad field' agriculture. In contrast, however, (see C. Mann's book 1491) there is strong evidence that the Native Americans developed entirely new forms of 'agriculture' not developed anywhere in the 'Old World': cultivating forests and jungle for useful trees (berries, fruits, bark, etc), planting forests and jungles and manufacturing meadows and glades to introduce useful animals (a large percentage of the trees in the Amazon Rain Forest do not show a natural distribution pattern: they were planted! - and when the Europeans arrived, there was a string of open grazing areas from the midwest eastwards artificially created to allow large game animals like Bison and Moose to range as far east and south as central Pennsylvania - NOT the natural environment for either animal!).
Therefore, a great example of Unequal Development is that, lacking one resource, an entirely viable alternative was developed, using an entirely different way of exploiting the terrain.
BUT the American example indicates that there are Alternative Resources and ways of exploiting them that can be used to the Game Advantage. IF you don't have draft animals, you may have the Unique Resource of Potato or Maize that can be grown without the Broad Field techniques that require draft-drawn plows. IF you don't have the right Cereals upon which to base your agriculture, you can 'cultivate' the forested areas - the California natives planted oak groves, which the Spanish thought were 'natural' - they weren't, because the natives had learned how to process acorns to make a flour for a bread-substitute as the basis for their 'agriculture', which involved planting and 'cultivating' the trees.
For example, in my Tech/Application model:
Technology: Agriculture - a possible Starting Technology
Applications:
.....Irrigation
.....Selective Plant Breeding
.....Fermentation
.....Forest/Rainforest Cultivation
NOT Available if Horses or Cattle are available.
Allows Improvement: Managed Forest, on any Forest or Rainforest tile
- allows all units to move through the tile without Forest restrictions,
- +2 Food from the Forest/Rainforest tile
The modern conceptualization of Religion as Opposed to Science is just that: modern. Some of the earliest primary schools teaching literacy were connected to and sponsored by the Temples, because Temple Scribes were required to keep track of religious teaching, record tithes and other contributions, and through Astronomical and other 'calendrical' knowledge, keep track of Religious Festivals and Events.
Also, the access to and spread of literacy/knowledge depends both on general affluence amongst the population and also on Social or Religious Policies. One example that I posted elsewhere was the Scottish Presbyterian Kirk requirement that all people should be able to read the bible for themselves, which they established 'Kirk Schools' which in turn meant that the entire population - men AND women - in Scotland were literate by the late Renaissance. This gave Scotland a mighty Head Start when the Industrial Age started: adults in Scotland could Read the Instructions, and write new ones, and build, design, and repair new machines. The 'Scottish Engineer' became a stereotype because such people were Real.
Of course, examples like this one also point up that Social Policies to 'enhance' Scientific Progress, until the advent of 'universal' primary schooling starting in the 18th century (as a direct result of the requirement for 'industrial' workers to Read The Instructions), had results the were not intended, but an Unexpected Consequence, and something that Happens to your Civ, not planned.
Of course I haven't studied pre-colombian history, so I'm basing most of my current analysis on "Guns, Germs and Steel" and various short texts/wiki summaries.
From what I've gathered it was the case that Europe had a larger population per area than the indigenous people of the americas (meaning a more effective agriculture), and also more advanced metallurgy and arguably military development. North America never really developed smelting unlike in South America where they did work several metals, e.g. bronze and meteoric iron, but they didn't get to mass producing metal tools and equipment, and they didn't really develop and adopt iron mining and smelting (lack of demand?).
Of course, if it hadn't been for the Old world microbes, it would prrobably have been very hard for the European colonisers to invade and settle. On that note it would be interesting to see diseases and pandemics represented in the Civ games, although it would probably just be frustrating to players to lose say 95% of their population.
Using the system of demand/need however, one could argue that there sinply wasn't need/demand for more intensive agriculture and metallurgy (apart from prerequisites), which I'm sure you are more knowledgeable of than I am.
Vanilla Civ and modern people in general like to view history by the perspective of constant striving to get to where we are today, but the activities and motives of historical peoples are more varied than that. In my opinion the Civ series as wells as many other games/stories have an exaggerated focus on warfare and downplaying of culture. The initial use for metals were for art and jewelry/ornaments amongst other things. Many copper and bronze items were arguably made for cerimonial purposes rather than for war or tools.
Game-wise
I see 2 major ways to implement these separate development paths:
Either you retain vanilla Civs abstract tech tree and development, trying to include all Civs regardless of climates/biogeographic conditions/resources. Where a European Civ can travel to a tropical location with a settler and improve those resources with a generic Farm or Plantation. I guess you could have a lot of Applications/Projects that are dependent on your biogeographic starting point, though I would argue it would be difficult for players to discern which ones that apply to their specific Civ and location.
But if we're using a design of unequal/separate development lines, then you could have several different initial lines of development (giving access to similar or slightly different Applications/Projects).
All of these lines could join together in the later eras, once the whole world is more or less explored and connected (communications and trade).
That should bring the benefit that players would have an easier time overlooking the paths "forward".
Although it would also be interesting if possible to remove the visibility of the techs in latter eras, to force players to guess and do some trial and error to find their way "forward".
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