Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
This mod component has been included in the core game with patch 1.0.1.217, and is now obsolete.
Research
- Thread starter Thalassicus
- Start date
omglazers
Warlord
Does this make it unlikely for people to finish the tech tree by the time the game is naturally supposed to end? Curious how this effects the gameplay in full, on standard or epic.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
If that does turn out to be the case, I can adjust the turn progression rate. Feedback would be helpful as I've only played through 1 test game fully so far with a tech win (immortal large continents, took 1 continent then filled out the tech tree).
omglazers
Warlord
While I don't plan on going for a tech win, I'll install this and play. Your other mods have done me solid.
Despite the Civ game causing serious issues when you install mods [Major slowdowns between turns, or graphics issues, even sometimes crashing] your balance mods have been great.
I can only hope they start pushing out more patches soon so your mods become unneeded and they fix the glaring problems.
Despite the Civ game causing serious issues when you install mods [Major slowdowns between turns, or graphics issues, even sometimes crashing] your balance mods have been great.
I can only hope they start pushing out more patches soon so your mods become unneeded and they fix the glaring problems.
I am intending to try this mod out. With your other balance mods on, it might be ok anyway. I know they don't increase science directly, but indirectly through increased food from resources/farms and increased hammers meaning faster libraries etc., it may make up for it.
I thought the sweet spot for increased tech costs would be somewhere between 10 and 20%, so your mod here seems in line with what I was looking for.
Just downloaded a bunch of your other mods too, and I like almost all of them.
I thought the sweet spot for increased tech costs would be somewhere between 10 and 20%, so your mod here seems in line with what I was looking for.
Just downloaded a bunch of your other mods too, and I like almost all of them.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Thank you for helping test this. I'm playing a runthrough as Iroquois to try out some things, and it'll help getting multiple perspectives.
I recall there were actually several mods like this and Valkrionn's Economy Mod when Civ IV came out, even tools that let you set the tech progression for each era as you preferred. I think it was in Warlords they incorporated the mods into the base game by slowing down tech progression, among other changes. There seems to be a similar concern with Civ V as well, as Valkrionn, myself and others have all been taking various approaches to this goal.
I recall there were actually several mods like this and Valkrionn's Economy Mod when Civ IV came out, even tools that let you set the tech progression for each era as you preferred. I think it was in Warlords they incorporated the mods into the base game by slowing down tech progression, among other changes. There seems to be a similar concern with Civ V as well, as Valkrionn, myself and others have all been taking various approaches to this goal.
Gorey
Prince
Is that why my turn times feel so long now?
Yikes i hope thats not the case. My last game it was amost unbearable mid game on. I dont think it was that bad when i first got the game.
MasterDinadan
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2008
- Messages
- 235
I'm not so sure if that's true.
Most of these mods are just XML changes. As I understand it, the game reads all of the XML files at initialization and actually applies the changes to the database.
Once the game is started, it reads from the database the same way it would in an unmodded game.
If turns are taking longer, it is likely because some mods that are installed are affecting the AI. If the AI ends up with more units because of a mod that reduces the production cost of units, then the AI's turns will take longer as it has to process more.
Baleur
Prince
Well one thing, you might want to edit the file that adjusts the date as well for immersion purposes, since it does seem to "desync" with the intended tech progression.
I'm using my straight up 175% research thingy for Epic (from the standard 150%), and right now i'm in the ingame year 2000, and just discovered the tech that gives you access to Hospitals, lol!
At this rate i'll be in 2050 before i discover Nukes, blimey what a world.
I'm using my straight up 175% research thingy for Epic (from the standard 150%), and right now i'm in the ingame year 2000, and just discovered the tech that gives you access to Hospitals, lol!
At this rate i'll be in 2050 before i discover Nukes, blimey what a world.
MasterDinadan
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2008
- Messages
- 235
Hmm... Usually I discover techs long BEFORE I should have. In my last game, I discovered Nuclear Fusion in 1830 or so.
Specialization is the key ;-)
Specialization is the key ;-)
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
Yeah, most of my games have put me in the modern era in the 1800's (prior to using this mod).
Gorey
Prince
I think you are right. I played an entire game up into the 2000's without any mod installed and my wait between turns was minimal and pretty consitent even into the modern era.
I fear these balance mods are allowing the AI to build many more units than they normally would.. and all that extra AI pathing is killing my turn times. I dont know what else it could be. Other than these balance mods.. the only other things i have installed are just a couple small insignificant interface tweaks.
Looks like i might have to stop using these mods.. especially the mine/lumbermill one to throttle the AI unit construction
I guess my Dual Core 2.4ghz is just not up to the task i guess. My 1GB GFX card handles it with ease though.
MilkmanDan
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2005
- Messages
- 54
Mods can include lua which could significantly impact turn time if there's some poor code. The forest growing mod might be a candidate (though I haven't personally had any problem with it) because it checks the whole world each turn.
So, you might want to check if any of your installed mods have a lua component.
So, you might want to check if any of your installed mods have a lua component.
omglazers
Warlord
I actually use forest growth.
How can I check what has a lua component, and what does not? I will try disabling them.
omglazers
Warlord
Duh 
Mongolia Jones
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2010
- Messages
- 60
Feedback....
Nice mod. I wanted to have more of a change so I upped the numbers in sql and I found something interesting.
It seems that for each time you have [Update Tech -> Set cost] that it runs through the whole tech list for each iteration so that you may get some techs that get multiplied two or more times.
For instance, for industrial techs you have a multiplier of 1.17. A renaissance tech was was upped by 1.15x during the last [Update Tech -> Set cost] making a new COST number that passes the threshold of the industrial tech COST check. It will now incur an added 1.17x multiplier.
Nice mod. I wanted to have more of a change so I upped the numbers in sql and I found something interesting.
It seems that for each time you have [Update Tech -> Set cost] that it runs through the whole tech list for each iteration so that you may get some techs that get multiplied two or more times.
For instance, for industrial techs you have a multiplier of 1.17. A renaissance tech was was upped by 1.15x during the last [Update Tech -> Set cost] making a new COST number that passes the threshold of the industrial tech COST check. It will now incur an added 1.17x multiplier.
Mongolia Jones
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2010
- Messages
- 60
Fixed...
Tried my hand on a little modding and used this to fix the multiple Cost problem.
Just use this logic (of course you can put whatever multipliers you want):
UPDATE Technologies
SET 'Cost' = Cost * 1.1
WHERE Era = 'ERA_ANCIENT';
UPDATE Technologies
SET 'Cost' = Cost * 1.21
WHERE Era = 'ERA_CLASSICAL';
UPDATE Technologies
SET 'Cost' = Cost * 1.33
WHERE Era = 'ERA_MEDIEVAL';
UPDATE Technologies
SET 'Cost' = Cost * 1.46
WHERE Era = 'ERA_RENAISSANCE';
UPDATE Technologies
SET 'Cost' = Cost * 1.61
WHERE Era = 'ERA_INDUSTRIAL';
UPDATE Technologies
SET 'Cost' = Cost * 1.77
WHERE Era = 'ERA_MODERN';
UPDATE Technologies
SET 'Cost' = Cost * 1.95
WHERE Era = 'ERA_FUTURE';
Works like a charm.
Tried my hand on a little modding and used this to fix the multiple Cost problem.
Just use this logic (of course you can put whatever multipliers you want):
UPDATE Technologies
SET 'Cost' = Cost * 1.1
WHERE Era = 'ERA_ANCIENT';
UPDATE Technologies
SET 'Cost' = Cost * 1.21
WHERE Era = 'ERA_CLASSICAL';
UPDATE Technologies
SET 'Cost' = Cost * 1.33
WHERE Era = 'ERA_MEDIEVAL';
UPDATE Technologies
SET 'Cost' = Cost * 1.46
WHERE Era = 'ERA_RENAISSANCE';
UPDATE Technologies
SET 'Cost' = Cost * 1.61
WHERE Era = 'ERA_INDUSTRIAL';
UPDATE Technologies
SET 'Cost' = Cost * 1.77
WHERE Era = 'ERA_MODERN';
UPDATE Technologies
SET 'Cost' = Cost * 1.95
WHERE Era = 'ERA_FUTURE';
Works like a charm.
Afforess
The White Wizard
It would have to be extremely poor code to slow the game down. I could run a loop over 100000 items in Lua, and it *might* take 1s. Probably less.
Thalassicus
Bytes and Nibblers
I haven't had any trouble with Lua mods affecting turn times, either. Make sure it's not due to your autosave settings, when I had mine set to save every turn I discovered just how slow those are.
@Mongolia Jones
Thank you for pointing that out! I checked one tech from each era, but completely overlooked this - didn't happen to pick any techs which crossed double thresholds.
I really wish I could simply do Cost = (Cost - 35) ^ 1.022 + 35. This would be SO much simpler. The problem with doing it by era is the cost of techs within an era can vary, and my goal is to to simply change all tech costs regardless of era.
Since the costs are all scaling upwards, I think if I reverse the order of updates it should fix the problem. Thanks for highlighting this issue.
@Mongolia Jones
Thank you for pointing that out! I checked one tech from each era, but completely overlooked this - didn't happen to pick any techs which crossed double thresholds.
I really wish I could simply do Cost = (Cost - 35) ^ 1.022 + 35. This would be SO much simpler. The problem with doing it by era is the cost of techs within an era can vary, and my goal is to to simply change all tech costs regardless of era.
Since the costs are all scaling upwards, I think if I reverse the order of updates it should fix the problem. Thanks for highlighting this issue.
