Restart COTM 07?

[LeSphinx]

I totaly agre with Ambiorix.
The questions are : How many people are concerned by the problems? Is a patch possible to install in order they can play ?
LeSphinx

 

[Ronald]

I am pretty far into the game and after the coming weekend I have no time to play, so please, let us finish the game with this map. It is one of the games I liked most the last year.

Ronald

 

[grahamiam]

i voted to patch existing saves, but i see i'm in the minority. if we do restart, then please give us extra time.

 

[AlanH]

If you are seriously thinking of a new game you should possibly remove the save so no one new starts on the old one. (I haven't checked the other threads or the GOTM page so you may have done that already.)

While the jury's out I've removed the start file links from the game page to reduce the number of people who might have to restart or get patches.

 

[Ambiorix]

i voted to patch existing saves, but i see i'm in the minority. if we do restart, then please give us extra time.

That's why I think this matter should not be settled by popular vote. Most people (understandably) tend to vote on what is best in their personal interest. Binding the solution to the outcome of the poll is fine IF (and only if) everybody votes - which will probably not be the case.
I know people feel very strong on democracy and having a say in matters, so I don't expect my opinion to be a popular one, but sometimes the best solution is not what the majority feels it is.
Anyway, I stand by my first post.

 

[Dynamic]

I vote for patch if possible but in my game I haven't any problems yet.
I in "middle MA", don't build KT yet and wan't to do it. My game go well and I wan't to replay it.

 

[horragoth]

I voted let it proceed as it is (or with minor patching). IMO the only things worth patching are the broken wonders as there is no info about it before they are built. The rest of tech-tree changes is visible in civilopedia and player could notice and adapt. It was the same in the bonus game and I just thought it is a part of the 'bonus'.

 

[Ronald]

If you are starting a new map, could you at least also allow submissions with the old map? As far as I read, there is no advantage with the old map if at all a slight disadvantage.

Ronald

 

[Xarin]

Please no.

I guess it's a good thing I randomly checked the board before playing any further than I have. More wasted time would be a bad thing.

If we do restart, please make it today or tomorrow. The holidays already have limited my time on this one and even with an extended date, I don't really want to try cramming two into next month.

 

[Jansku]

Is it really such a big problem to have wasted some shields on zeus or the templar?

I mean, in a normal game, you can get a wonder or two by chance, if a nearby AI civ (that you conquer) has built some. Or you might get a couple of leaders less/more than some other player. So, in a normal game, sometimes "bad stuff" happens and you don't get as many wonders from enemies as someone else does. And this time is not much different: some bad stuff happened to some people and they lost shields on useless wonders, but it didn't really change the outcome of the game that much.

 

[Xarin]

Most people (understandably) tend to vote on what is best in their personal interest.

What?! Neither the fact that I conquered one of my neighbors in QSC, nor the fact that I have no time for restarting have any basis in my decision! Oh wait, yes they do.

 

[Cat Behemoth]

I've already finished the game and have absolutely no problems. And I think, than any started game shouldn't be restarted. And I also everytime AGAINST the patches of the original version - that is the reason I don't play classic GOTM. If any patches occur I'll not be able to play and will not take part in the games, that need patches. But if the game will be restarted without applying patches I'll take part in COTM. But my vote is "NO: proceed as-is" - everybody is under the same conditions and I don't see a considerable reason for restart.

 

[solenoozerec]

That's why I think this matter should not be settled by popular vote.

I think in this community good reasons are valued much higher than a popular vote. There is no democracy
However, in this particular case whatever solution will be made, it will affect different people in a different way.
It will not affect those who did not start this game and it will minimally affect those who just started this game like me.
Therefore, it will be improper if we (those who is not going to be hurt by any decision) will be deciding what to do.
I think that more sensible poll should be restricted only to those who is playing this game and is past 1000BC.
I also think that a solution should be found as soon as possible. The most stupid option would be to continue this poll until New Year.
I read through all messages and count votes only from those who reported as playing this game and being after 1000BC. This how it look like:
1. MiniMe, Ignas, Ronald, Horragoth, Cat Behemoth.
2. StanP, Ambiorix (I deduced that he is playing, not sure), Dynamic
3. Eldar
4. Darkness, Doc Tsialkovski, LeSphinx (later he changed his mind towards the second option),
Unclear vote: The Moose, The Archduke,
Unclear vote – are those guys who does not mind a restart, but they do not seem to be insisting on it.

So, as you see the picture looks different from what we see in the poll.
I think the picture will look even more different if poll would ask the following questions:
1. Do you think that you personally will be hurt if this game will not be restarted?
2. If it will be restarted?

 

[grahamiam]

@solenoozerec: i am at 30AD with plenty of significant events occuring and I voted #2

So, as you see the picture looks different from what we see in the poll.
I think the picture will look even more different if poll would ask the following questions:
1. Do you think that you personally will be hurt if this game will not be restarted?

i will not be personally hurt at all with any decision they make. this is just a little game we play for fun, remember i realize that this is an unfortunate mistake by our hardworking, volunteer staff and I have no problem in supporting thier decision if it is to restart or anything else.

 

[dmanakho]

I am glad that due RL conditions it took for me so long to start the game...
I am way back in the BCs so i will just wait a little bit longer for the final decision to be made before i continue...
I didn't put much time in to this game so I don't mind restarting it, but I realize many players are not going to be happy starting this game all over.

 

[SirPleb]

Very nice analysis solenoozerec,

Your deduction about the result of a poll based on whether people would personally be hurt by not restarting makes sense to me. (I assume you mean that their gameplay/score has or will suffer due to the glitches in the game.) Ainwood, if you want to do another poll to get a different perspective I don't think most people would mind. As long as it doesn't delay making a decision - it seems clear that resolving this quickly is important.

 

[SirPleb]

One more thing: No one who has played well into the game has mentioned the Statue Of Zeus. I think it would be fair to say that the human isn't going to be building it in this game. This doesn't seem much of a spoiler - if there's no ivory around, that's that, and this is the case on most Conquests maps anyway. Assuming that's the case I think that handles the worst glitch acceptably - no land locked boats for the human.

 

[StanNP]

Thank you solenoozerec, for expressing what I've been thinking in such a positive manner. I did not want whine or be negative, because I really value the work that Ainwood and AlanH and others put into these games. But you stated the most important point, we do not all have equal standing in how this gets resolved.

1. Do you think that you personally will be hurt if this game will not be restarted?

No, I'm at 400ad or so and a few turns away from our UU. I built the Knights Templar but I can live with Ancient Cavalry instead of Crusaders.

2. If it will be restarted?

From a game/score standpoint, I'm just playing average, so I won't be hurt here. But from a time perspective, I'm concerned because my window for COTM ends around Dec. 16.

Once again, I'd just like to thank Ainwood and AlanH for the work they put into GOTM/COTM. It keeps me busy.

StanNP

 

[ainwood]

I think in this community good reasons are valued much higher than a popular vote. There is no democracy

The vote is actually about validating my own thoughts here.

However, in this particular case whatever solution will be made, it will affect different people in a different way.
It will not affect those who did not start this game and it will minimally affect those who just started this game like me.
Therefore, it will be improper if we (those who is not going to be hurt by any decision) will be deciding what to do.
I think that more sensible poll should be restricted only to those who is playing this game and is past 1000BC.

Very good point. The main people affected here are those that, as you say, have reached the modern age (or even finished and submitted). The Knights Templar is fairly easy to fix (Change what it produces, upgrade all ANcient Cavs to Crusaders). The modern-age tech tree can be left as-is, or patched. I would vote for patched (or a restart), as getting Mech Infantry with recycling is screwy (although the spaceship parts appear to have escaped unscathed)

I also think that a solution should be found as soon as possible. The most stupid option would be to continue this poll until New Year.

I plan to get this back under-way tonight (within 16 hours of the timestamp on this post, if possible). If we go for a restart, then the time will be extended.

So, as you see the picture looks different from what we see in the poll.
I think the picture will look even more different if poll would ask the following questions:
1. Do you think that you personally will be hurt if this game will not be restarted?
2. If it will be restarted?

Maybe another poll is a good idea with these criteria?

 

[Hannabir]

Although I have not played until 1000BC, I had a terrific start.
Nonetheless, I would prefer a restart, on a map where the pregame discussion holds.
I like to play civ, not civ-twisted-into-ugliness-by-mistake.

Which means that I disagree with Sir Pleb's and Solenoozerec's pessimistic arguments. I'm confident that most participants will not argue for their own personal benefit.