Resurrecting civs dont survive

[fenceman]

I was playing a game in v1.01 as America, in Europe there was Spain, France, Greece and Russia. France had taken over Germany and Rome, and become fairly powerful. I watched Rome break away from France, only to die a few turns later, and then Germany gained independence, and was destroyed again as well. Both civs came back and were subsequently destroyed several times. In another game I played as Arabia, France conquered Spain. At the time Spain died, I was at war with them. When they resurrected later I was surprised to see that I was still at war with them!

Maybe diplomacy should be reset when civs resurrect, and they should be given some extra forces, so that they can survive more than ten turns.

 

[Arkaeyn]

Actually, that sounds reasonably historically accurate. Just ask the Poles.

 

[Elhoim]

Well, not really...

 

[dh_epic]

I think it's reasonable to expect they would fail their resurrection and get wiped out pretty quickly afterwards. But all the time? Not believable, realistic, fun, or strategic.

I think it would be good to improve their survival odds just a bit.

 

[Arkaeyn]

True, it should happen sometimes. But it should certainly not be anywhere close to a guarantee.

 

[V. Soma]

the dilemma is:

History is not fun - whereas a game should be

 

[Rhye]

Yes it's accurate: indipendence can fail
Just see italian attempts in 1820-21, 1830-31 and 1848.
Usually a foreign help is required in order to win the war

 

[cece84]

mmm why not reset all diplo..

then put a -10 (for example) with the enemy, a +8 with enemies of our enemy , a +4 with countries that see our indipendence as a way to get more power..
at least, we gave to the new civ a consistant diplo bonus.. (no early wars after independence)


(in modern days it's reasonable considering partisans/rebels troops helped with weapons by foreigns countries..)

 

[dh_epic]

V. Soma makes the most accurate statement I've seen in a long time:

History is not fun - whereas a game should be

It's not fun to have a Civilization come out of nowhere and shift the balance of power drastically -- even if it's accurate. It's like this one football game I once played where your player would get an injury, and there was no way to predict or prevent it. In the end, most people turned the injury system right off.

I think we can afford to give the resurrected civs a SMALL boost. But let's be cautious, and proceed from there.

 

[Crayton]

Does the "Generic Civilization Collapse" trigger collapse resurected civs?!?

The function checks every 15 turns and compares the number of cities owned by the civ. If the new number is less than half of the original then the civ collapses.

HOWEVER when a civ resurrects the number of cities 15 turns ago still equals the number of cities 15 turns before the original collapse!!! Most times when I see a civ come back it has about 2 cities. Most civs build at least 5 cities. The "Generic Civilization Collapse" will almost always be triggered.

I've added a line that resets the "15 turn ago" value to 0 when a civ collapses. 15 turns ago the civ didn't have any cities, right.

 

[Rhye]

Does the "Generic Civilization Collapse" trigger collapse resurected civs?!?

The function checks every 15 turns and compares the number of cities owned by the civ. If the new number is less than half of the original then the civ collapses.

HOWEVER when a civ resurrects the number of cities 15 turns ago still equals the number of cities 15 turns before the original collapse!!! Most times when I see a civ come back it has about 2 cities. Most civs build at least 5 cities. The "Generic Civilization Collapse" will almost always be triggered.

I've added a line that resets the "15 turn ago" value to 0 when a civ collapses. 15 turns ago the civ didn't have any cities, right.

thank you, i forgot that case.

 

[Crayton]

No problem. I was trying to mod the mod to squeeze both the Celts and France into one civilization. I made a respawn trigger for the middle ages, every 7 turns and increased the generic collapse frequency to 13 turns. France and Persia kept spawning and dying (every 13 turns) so I found the bug.

Actually I had Japan (a living civ) "spawn" in Parsa once and had Mali (another living civ) spawn in Lutetia. The Arabians conquered Parsa and Persia spawned a few more times, but Mali still has Lutetia (for now ).

I don't know if that was part of my medieval respawn (I only changed the trigger technologies and war/peace civic) or if the bug is in your respawn code too.

 

[doc_knoeselfeld]

i actually think ressurected civs are really strong as they get your techs!! i conquered russia and when they ressurected several turns later they had double the points due to techs and made serios trouble as they had the newest infantry units in their cities...
but another problem i had: i had russia break free and send an army to conquer them again... after i conquered one of their cities a congress was being held an they demanded the city i just conquered and i demanded moscow and we both got the city we wanted... now russia had only one city with my army standing right next to it and was gone the next turn! that was really weird

 

[Blasphemous]

(I'm back again.)
Wouldn't it makes sense to start resurrecting civs on a small golden age, at least sometimes?

 

[dh_epic]

You know, especially in the later eras, new civs should take advantage of the nationhood civic and draft themselves some good national defence.

 

[Elhoim]

That´s true...

 

[OzzyKP]

mmm why not reset all diplo..

then put a -10 (for example) with the enemy, a +8 with enemies of our enemy , a +4 with countries that see our indipendence as a way to get more power..
at least, we gave to the new civ a consistant diplo bonus.. (no early wars after independence)


(in modern days it's reasonable considering partisans/rebels troops helped with weapons by foreigns countries..)

I think that is a bit too drastic, but I like the idea.

 

[dh_epic]

Yeah, I agree it's too drastic... but the idea of giving the resurrected civ a diplomatic bonus with a few civs might help it out. (Less emphasis on the penalties.)

 

[Barak]

One question in terms of the civ resurrection. How many times can a civ resurrect?

In my current 1.01 game as England, Greece France and I are the dominant nations of the world, and since we are the only three Jewish states, we are at peace (both Friendly to me).

Greece had a long war vs Confucist Germany, which collapsed, Berlin becoming a barbarian state. Early on, I had settled Bremen and had a strong cultural position there. Without a single act of aggression, the barbarian city of Berlin flipped to me, and within 10 turns Germany re spawned.

Well, I conquered them in 3 turns, but about 20 turns later, they re spawned again. Strangely enough none of the German cities that Greece took rebelled.

So the question....at what point will a city stay conquered?

Strangly, the other civs that collapsed, Egypt, Persia, Spain, and Rome have not respawned.

 

[Rhye]

there's no limit