Rethinking the Space Race

[Louis XXIV]

I posted this inside a thread in the main discussion forum, but I think this deserves a topic of its own. First off, I realize that, without research trading, everything as we know it could be different. I also realize that a radical change might be beyond the developers at this stage. However, I'll throw it out in the hopes that it inspires someone in the future. Sorry if this is long.

I'm wondering if it is time for an overhaul of the space race. I'm not saying removing a launch to Alpha Centauri. That's been a staple of the game since the beginning as the number one peace option. My proposal is to expand it to a space race that, in some ways mirrors the one in the Cold War. The only difference being, in the end, the US launched a ship to Alpha Centauri and won the game Basically, start it earlier by giving sides the option to first launch unmanned satellites. Then manned ships. Then the Apollo Project sending someone to the moon. Each step would require investments in money, science, shields/hammers, etc (exactly what, I'm not sure). Then, at some point, you can start building your rocket ship.

Basically, the goal of this would be two-fold. One, there's more of a race. If your rival is the first to launch a man into space, you sure want to catch up quickly since you know you're behind. Second, the big difference is the space program will give you bonuses. Perhaps launching a satellite into space will reveal the world map (and perhaps offer remote recon options). Launching a man into space could give you scientific advances or city improvements (reflecting technologies from the space program). Putting a man on the moon could give a massive culture boost. Either way, the extra stuff will offer incentives for anyone to participate, even if they don't want to win the game through space.

Thoughts?

 

[frekk]

I also realize that a radical change might be beyond the developers at this stage.

Probably, but they got alot of ideas for civ5 from reactions to civ4 as it was being released. So it's not entirely without merit to discuss radical changes right now.

Basically, start it earlier by giving sides the option to first launch unmanned satellites. Then manned ships. Then the Apollo Project sending someone to the moon. Each step would require investments in money, science, shields/hammers, etc (exactly what, I'm not sure). Then, at some point, you can start building your rocket ship.

Hmmm ... sounds really interesting. I like it.

Perhaps launching a satellite into space will reveal the world map

I think it already does, doesn't it? When you build Apollo? I remember it did in 3 (and maybe 2). I've only gone the space race route a handful of times in 4, long time ago, and I don't remember.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I think researching satellites reveals it, right? Either way, basically the idea would be to add more bonuses that are independent of victory (and to have it more closely mirror real life). Exactly what the bonuses are can vary.

 

[Camikaze]

I think adding more stages to the space race is rather unnecessary, and affords it too much importance, when it is really only a nice name for technological/production victory. I would favour making the space race a project not leading to a space race victory, but perhaps providing other benefits, and perhaps only encompassing the Apollo Program (and builds added into that), and making the tech/production victory condition something more based upon actual and .

 

[Louis XXIV]

Well, the point is so it's not entirely there for victory. Look at the other victory types.

Conquest - obviously, conquering other civs gives you advantages in having a larger territory, greater income, or greater production (as well as eliminating a threat). It can be done without going for conquest/domination victories

Culture - culture is important for border expansion. In Civ4 it was important for defense. It was also important for city flips or preventing city flips. Culture tax increased happiness in Civ4 and culture improvements and wonders offered other benefits

Diplomatic - OK, less of an advantage, but the UN allows you to vote for certain resolutions, etc. Doesn't have to be used for a diplomatic victory (I've never won a Civ4 diplo victory, for example, but I still build the UN).

Space Race - Is there any point to building parts to a space ship besides winning? If they offered other benefits, it would expand its usefulness.

 

[Ahriman]

The issues with the space race for me are:

a) There is a clear case for some kind of "technology/production" win, where you don't have to grind through all kinds of boring warfare long after you're the dominant power in order to win, and where you don't have to have tailored your play to that win for ages (like you do for diplomatic or cultural);
BUT

b) Its no fun at all to be playing the game, doing well and all of a sudden you lose, because one of your opponents on the other side of the world finished the space race victory.

I'm not sure how to reconcile these things.

My best guess would be to:
1. Make the progress of enemy players more clear, so you don't have to go hunting through spreadsheet screens to see it. This is a UI issue. Maybe just something in the faction name/scores list.

2. Make some mechanism where you can ****** the progress of another player, even if they are a long away away from you on the map.
For example, some kind of sabotage, or warfare where you started shooting anti-space station or anti-satellite missiles at their stuff.
But some way where you can frustrate the enemy's attempt without having to sail your army 15 turns across the ocean to some other continent to invade them.

I think having some incremental benefits from the space race might be good for gameplay - though not very realistic

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

I posted this inside a thread in the main discussion forum, but I think this deserves a topic of its own. First off, I realize that, without research trading, everything as we know it could be different. I also realize that a radical change might be beyond the developers at this stage. However, I'll throw it out in the hopes that it inspires someone in the future. Sorry if this is long.

I'm wondering if it is time for an overhaul of the space race. I'm not saying removing a launch to Alpha Centauri. That's been a staple of the game since the beginning as the number one peace option. My proposal is to expand it to a space race that, in some ways mirrors the one in the Cold War. The only difference being, in the end, the US launched a ship to Alpha Centauri and won the game Basically, start it earlier by giving sides the option to first launch unmanned satellites. Then manned ships. Then the Apollo Project sending someone to the moon. Each step would require investments in money, science, shields/hammers, etc (exactly what, I'm not sure). Then, at some point, you can start building your rocket ship.

Basically, the goal of this would be two-fold. One, there's more of a race. If your rival is the first to launch a man into space, you sure want to catch up quickly since you know you're behind. Second, the big difference is the space program will give you bonuses. Perhaps launching a satellite into space will reveal the world map (and perhaps offer remote recon options). Launching a man into space could give you scientific advances or city improvements (reflecting technologies from the space program). Putting a man on the moon could give a massive culture boost. Either way, the extra stuff will offer incentives for anyone to participate, even if they don't want to win the game through space.

Thoughts?

No ! No ! No ! No ! No ! No !
it's gonna be the chinese who will launch first !

 

[Leonel]

I'd like to see the rocket sitting on the pad on the game map itself while it's being constructed. Or if it's going to be constructed in orbit like Civ 2, it should be viewable when zooming out into planet view.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Well, just because its simply a tech/produce victory doesn't mean it has to be. Nevertheless, I don't have any issue with space as it stands.

I'd like a economic victory of some kind, possibly by building a world bank costing several thousand gold

 

[Ahriman]

I'd like a economic victory of some kind, possibly by building a world bank costing several thousand gold

Given that the World Bank is a development agency, and I know people who work there, I find this pretty amusing as a victory condition

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

Well, I have another idea on rethinking the space race: Add another victory option where you are whisked away to a planet at Alpha Centauri that is just like Earth - but continents are in different places. Then you have to win a conquest/domination/diplomatic victory on that world. Of course, to save time it is a duel world. (Obviously requires a cylindrical world)