Retro Space/Retro Future age

[Hydromancerx]

- Green Energy is most likely not invented. -> I think this can't / shouldn't be implented, but

we could make the Atompunk-Nuclear Power Plant replace all green energy Buildings.

I don't think it should replace though. Remember the punks are doing things earlier than normal but with retro technology. So if green energy is developed normally that's fine.

Fast Breeder Reactor - Approved

Videophone Network - Approved but also should require Televisions resource (in the place of computers).


Pushbutton Automat - Rather than health from each food I think it should just be gold% from each food. Otherwise its much too much health.

Mid Class Skypad Apartments - Well if its in that line of buildings it should also upgrade to the hi-tech building in that category.

Jet Pack Trooper - Do you have a grpahic for this? I am guessing its like a Rocketeer type unit.

My suggestions: Move the "Peacemaker" to Atompunk.

Perhaps we could make a "Pre-Peacemanker" that comes before it and acts like it but goes obsolete when the peacmaker is unlocked. Note it would have to have an Atomicpunk sounding name.

Clean Nuclear Power Plant - Approved


Hi-Tech Nuclear Powerplant - Approved

Nuclear Powercomplex - Awesome I like it!

High Energy Lab - Approved

Moon Outpost - Yeah old off on space stuff until later.

Earlier Version of Telsa-Infantry - I like the idea, but they need a good name.

Neutron Bomb - Do we have this already?

Tactical Neutron Bomb - Again we should see if we have this.

Nuclear Powered Engine - Can you have reqsources be a requirement for a promotion?

Nuclear Powered Propulsion - I wonder what YB thinks of these.

Neutron Bombs - TB would have to look these over.

----

And I have a building request.

Venture Industries [National Wonder]
Art: Here
Pedia: Here
Req Tech: Atompunk
Req Building: Laboratory AND Industrial Park
Req Resource: Atompunk
Req City Size: 13

• +5
• +5
• +5
• +5 and +5 with Deep Sea Exploration
• +5 and +5 with Lunar Exploration
• +5 and +5 with Space Stations
• +5 and +5 with Robotics
• +5 and +5 with Cloning

 

[Faustmouse]

Jet Pack Trooper - No, it was an idea from Steampunk1880. Maybe Hi-Tech Infantry works?

Apartments - What do you mean with "should upgrade to hi-tech building in this category?

Moon Outpost - Ok I'll hold them. What about the Space Stations? Also hold off?

Promotions - I meant the tech should be the prereq. But you are right, the resource should also be a prereq. But on the other hand: Who would trade a Punk-Culture away?

Neutron Bombs - I don't know. I was refering to Command and Conquer Generals: Zero Hour. You can upgrade your Nuclear Artillery so it fires Neutron Bombs: People are instandly dead but tanks and cars are almost at full health - but the driver dies, so you can capture the vehicle.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Apartments - What do you mean with "should upgrade to hi-tech building in this category?

Each house is in its own upgrade line So if you want Apartments it would be ...

Medium Wealth / Medium Density
Treehouses -> Stilt Huts -> Hogans -> Insulas -> Commons -> Apartments -> Hi-Tech
Apartments -> Colony Arcology

However Skypad Apartments sound fancy so maybe you want High Wealth which would be ...

Medium Wealth / Medium Density
Yurts -> Palaces -> Estates -> Condominiums -> Hi-Tech Condominiums -> Colony Arcology

However I think perhaps we should make it an early Arcology Housing specifclly Arcology Suburbs. So like ...

Skypad Apartments -> Arcology Suburbs -> Colony Arcology -> Launch Arcology

This way its not in an existing housing slot. And we would not have to edit any of the existing buildings incase someone decides to disable the Atomicpunk mod.

In short please use these stats ...

Mid Class Skypad Apartments
Req Tech: Atompunk
Req Buildings: Videophone Network, Pushbutton Automat, Waterpipes, Sewersystem
Costs: Autobuildable
Req City Size: 25
Req Power: Yes
Upgrades To: Arcology Suburbs

• +3 (for the Modern Era)
• +2 (for the Medium Wealth)
• +4 (for the Uber Density)
• +3 (for the Uber Density)

 

[Hydromancerx]

Jet Pack Trooper - No, it was an idea from Steampunk1880. Maybe Hi-Tech Infantry works?

Apartments - What do you mean with "should upgrade to hi-tech building in this category?

Moon Outpost - Ok I'll hold them. What about the Space Stations? Also hold off?

Promotions - I meant the tech should be the prereq. But you are right, the resource should also be a prereq. But on the other hand: Who would trade a Punk-Culture away?

Neutron Bombs - I don't know. I was refering to Command and Conquer Generals: Zero Hour. You can upgrade your Nuclear Artillery so it fires Neutron Bombs: People are instandly dead but tanks and cars are almost at full health - but the driver dies, so you can capture the vehicle.

1. I ment like the Rocketeer. But that's is probably more of Dieselpunk.

2. See pot above

3. Hmm. I supose Orbital Stuff can be done. Just not Lunar or Martian (or beyond).

4. Yeah I don't think anyone would trade a punk away.

5. Well accouding to the Pedia we have under Doomsday CC.

- Tactical Nuke
- ICBM (Intercontinental Ballistic Missile)
- MRBM (Medium Range Ballistic Missile)
- IRBM (Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile)
- Hydrogen Bomb
- Peace Maker
- Tactical Fusi
- Fusion Nova
- YAM (You Are Mine)

 

[Faustmouse]

1. I ment like the Rocketeer. But that's is probably more of Dieselpunk.

2. See pot above

3. Hmm. I supose Orbital Stuff can be done. Just not Lunar or Martian (or beyond).

4. Yeah I don't think anyone would trade a punk away.

5. Well accouding to the Pedia we have under Doomsday CC.

- Tactical Nuke
- ICBM (Intercontinental Ballistic Missile)
- MRBM (Medium Range Ballistic Missile)
- IRBM (Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile)
- Hydrogen Bomb
- Peace Maker
- Tactical Fusi
- Fusion Nova
- YAM (You Are Mine)

1. Ok, do you have graphics for the Rocketeer?

2. Sounds reasonable

3. So what stats does a Space Station have? I never understood the + and + . The only thing I could imagine is and some benefits for later space exploration.

4. I will ask TB about the Promotions.

5. So we don't have a Neutron Bomb? I will ask TB about this too.

 

[Hydromancerx]

1. Not that I am aware of.

3. Well we have an International Space Station [Project] so its not really a building or wonder. However we do have the "Space Laboratory" which is a National Wonder.

So what was your idea for an Atomicpunk Space Station. As of now its the International Space Station in which unlocks Space Labs for others to add their own lab on the space station. Did you want say to mimic the space lab and have it require the ISS? Or were you wanting a Private Space Station?

 

[Faustmouse]

I was thinking about "private" space stations.

The Space Outpost (at Astronautics) was meant to be a smallstation were fuel and resources for lunar exploration or near earth exploration are stored. Also for some early research maybe.

And the Mega Space Station was meant to be a really HUGE station, much larger than the ISS, where people research and even life permanently. Not only "a few years", but for their whole life. It should be like a very small city with lots of labs in it.
Did you plan orbital cities once multimaps are in? Then we can hold this one off.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Yeah Orbital Cities were in the middle ground. It would be nice to have them on the Solar ystem map but they would probably be impracticable. However we already have some Orbital Buildings.

Buildings
- Communications Satellites
- Interstellar Speedway
- Military Satellites
- Orbital Factory
- Orbital Hotel
- Orbital Labs
- Propaganda Satellites
- Solar Powered Satellite (For the Microwave Power Plant)
- Zero G Medical Lab
- Zero G Sports Arena

National Wonders
- Space Laboratory

Wonders
- Space Elevator
- Zurich Orbital

Projects
- Hubble Space Telescope
- International Space Station

I hope that's all of them.

Anywho to get to the point just hold off for now.

 

[Faustmouse]

Uff... took me almost 8 hours now, but I did the Atompunk stuff.

I will commit them now later, even if there are 1 or 2 little mistakes:

1) Is it possible that Viodephones can require Atompunk AND Copperwires AND Televisions? Right now its just Atompunk AND (Copperwires OR Televisions)

2) I have no idea when the Nuclear Powercomplex should go obsolete. I don't want it to go obsolete at Fusion, because then you would literally shut down the Powercomplex and THEN start building the Fusion Powerplant, which is total stupid. I don't want to have both - the Nuclear and Fusion parallel for too long so Cold Fusion is not good either. And I can't make the Fusion Powerplant replace the Nuclear Powercomplex because then you could build the one in city A and the other in city B. Any ideas?
Just figured out that Power (Fusion) is a building, not a resource. Then I will just make the Complex provide a free Building Power (Atom) in every city and make the Power (Fusion) replace Power (Atom) once I figured out what the tag for Power (Fusion) is

3) When I make the Complex require 2 Uranium Mines, then it needs one of those in the city I want to build the Complex, correct? Is there a way I can tell the game that I want to have 2 Uranium Mines ANYWHERE in my empire and the Complex doesn't need one in the city where it's gonna be build? I think restricting such a powerfull building to only a handfull cities is dumb. Maybe I get rid of the Uranium Mines completely. Opinions?

4) Is the Upgrade Path of my Housing correct?

5) Three things on regular buildings:
- Change Telephone Network so it is replaced by Videophone network (VIDEOPHONE_NETWORK)
- Change the Computer Network so it requires Telephone Network OR Videophone Network
- Change Nuclear Powerplant so it is replaced by HI_TECH_NUCLEAR_REACTOR and CLEAN_NUCLEAR_REACTOR

6) You might have seen that I tend to code the buildings slightly different then I planed them here. This is because I get new ideas while modding and I'm just too lazy to changen them here in the forum. So have a look and feel free to tell me if you want me to change them again.

 

[Thunderbrd]

The promotions are good. I like those - in fact I really like the idea of special promos for all the punks.

The Neutron bombs. Hmm... first of all, how do we define the difference between a soft and hard target? Not saying in code (yet) that's probably fairly easy to figure out but what I'm asking is - what do YOU mean by hard and soft targets? It could probably be defined by CCs fairly easily once all our CCs are setup - again the Motility category may fit the bill.

The second issue is making it easier to capture vehicles. This may not work at the moment. I can't say how vehicle 'equipments' might go but right now 'capture' only means the people themselves. Perhaps eventually something like what you're looking for could work... but it may be just as likely I'll have to make large destructive effects like nukes NOT behave this way as a default rather than go out of my way to make them behave this way. I have it in mind that units would often, if not always, drop their equipments where they die and are collectable by other units to a very minor extent. I might have to specify that large explosives would destroy those equipments instead.

 

[Faustmouse]

Great! Now I have to figure out how to make Promotions. Or how to make a building gives two promotions

I used "soft targets" for all Mounted, Melee, Gunpowder... Basically everything that's organic. Hard target's would be cars, Aircrafts, Tanks, Robots...
The Neutron Bomb is a nuclear bomb with minimal heath- and shockwave, minimal long term radioation, but with a HUGE direct radiation, that will instandly kill every living things. But do almost no harm to everything else.

And Ships are taken as War Price sometimes, couldn't you use this code for Vehicles, too?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Great! Now I have to figure out how to make Promotions. Or how to make a building gives two promotions

I used "soft targets" for all Mounted, Melee, Gunpowder... Basically everything that's organic. Hard target's would be cars, Aircrafts, Tanks, Robots...
The Neutron Bomb is a nuclear bomb with minimal heath- and shockwave, minimal long term radioation, but with a HUGE direct radiation, that will instandly kill every living things. But do almost no harm to everything else.

And Ships are taken as War Price sometimes, couldn't you use this code for Vehicles, too?

For soft targets, I'd use MOTILITY_FOOT and MOTILITY_RIDING. Those are basically where the people are exposed. It shouldn't take us toooooo long to have those in play.

The ship capture mechanism is some very specific python programming. Something similar could be done BUT who would man these vehicles? And would they not then just be neutral and unclaimed until someone came along to man them? I think they'd be better represented as locally discarded equipments personally, which would mean once equipment designs begin to consider vehicles, those vehicles should be somewhat varied based on thorough RL research. We could even have Driver/Operator type foot units that are rather weak until they pick up such an equipment type but it'd take some thought as to how to make that work properly...

Promotions are perhaps one of the easiest game objects to design, the greatest effort being the button graphic itself. I would prefer not to see those given out 'free' by a building - I think we use this function too much. But we can make it possible to qualify for taking a promo based on a tech or based on a given resource access. (That latter one I'd have to check and make sure that the resource prereq doesn't only apply to equipments, but perhaps these would be better AS equipments anyhow.) You could have a building give them for free for now I suppose then once equipment devel reaches that stage we could convert them to special equipment upgrades.

And there's 3 FreePromotions tags for buildings as well as a FreePromos tag that will allow for an unlimited number of free promotions to potentially be given out by a building too.

 

[Hydromancerx]

1) Is it possible that Viodephones can require Atompunk AND Copperwires AND Televisions? Right now its just Atompunk AND (Copperwires OR Televisions)

You have to use the expression system code ...

			<Bonus>BONUS_ATOMPUNK</Bonus>
			<PrereqBonuses>
				<Bonus>NONE</Bonus>
			</PrereqBonuses>
			<ConstructCondition>
			   <And>
				<Has>
				   <GOMType>GOM_BONUS</GOMType>
				   <ID>BONUS_COPPERWIRES</ID>
				</Has>
				<Has>
				   <GOMType>GOM_BONUS</GOMType>
				   <ID>BONUS_TELEVISIONS</ID>
				</Has>
			   </And>
			</ConstructCondition>

2) I have no idea when the Nuclear Powercomplex should go obsolete. I don't want it to go obsolete at Fusion, because then you would literally shut down the Powercomplex and THEN start building the Fusion Powerplant, which is total stupid. I don't want to have both - the Nuclear and Fusion parallel for too long so Cold Fusion is not good either. And I can't make the Fusion Powerplant replace the Nuclear Powercomplex because then you could build the one in city A and the other in city B. Any ideas?
Just figured out that Power (Fusion) is a building, not a resource. Then I will just make the Complex provide a free Building Power (Atom) in every city and make the Power (Fusion) replace Power (Atom) once I figured out what the tag for Power (Fusion) is

Yup.

3) When I make the Complex require 2 Uranium Mines, then it needs one of those in the city I want to build the Complex, correct? Is there a way I can tell the game that I want to have 2 Uranium Mines ANYWHERE in my empire and the Complex doesn't need one in the city where it's gonna be build? I think restricting such a powerfull building to only a handfull cities is dumb. Maybe I get rid of the Uranium Mines completely. Opinions?

You need 2 codes one for the number and one for the amount.

			<PrereqBuildingClasses>
				<PrereqBuildingClass>
					<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_URANIUM_MINE</BuildingClassType>
					<iNumBuildingNeeded>2</iNumBuildingNeeded>
				</PrereqBuildingClass>
			</PrereqBuildingClasses>
			<BuildingClassNeededs>
				<BuildingClassNeeded>
					<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_URANIUM_MINE</BuildingClassType>
					<bNeededInCity>1</bNeededInCity>
				</BuildingClassNeeded>
			</BuildingClassNeededs>

Note that I think the number increases with the map size. Which is why say the Circus Maximus says 3 Hipodromes in the code but on some maps means, 5, 7 or even more.

4) Is the Upgrade Path of my Housing correct?

The code should be ...

			<ReplaceBuildings>
				<ReplaceBuilding>
					<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_HOUSE_ERA4_SDMW</BuildingClassType>
					<bReplace>1</bReplace>
				</ReplaceBuilding>
				<ReplaceBuilding>
					<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_COLONY_ARCO</BuildingClassType>
					<bReplace>1</bReplace>
				</ReplaceBuilding>
				<ReplaceBuilding>
					<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_LAUNCH_ARCO</BuildingClassType>
					<bReplace>1</bReplace>
				</ReplaceBuilding>
			</ReplaceBuildings>

Note that SDHW means Super Density / Medium Wealth

5) Three things on regular buildings:
- Change Telephone Network so it is replaced by Videophone network (VIDEOPHONE_NETWORK)
- Change the Computer Network so it requires Telephone Network OR Videophone Network
- Change Nuclear Powerplant so it is replaced by HI_TECH_NUCLEAR_REACTOR and CLEAN_NUCLEAR_REACTOR

These would need to be done modularly in case it was turned off. You need to ask DH how to do that. Or chnage them so they do not do not effect other buildings outside the Atompunk mod.

1. Thus would break a lot of stuff. I also don' think it shouldreplace it, just add-on to it.

2. Again you would have to do it the DH way.

3.Cane be done but needs DH's modular method within the atompunk mod without changing the other files.

6) You might have seen that I tend to code the buildings slightly different then I planed them here. This is because I get new ideas while modding and I'm just too lazy to changen them here in the forum. So have a look and feel free to tell me if you want me to change them again.

Have you pushed them to the SVN yet?

 

[Faustmouse]

1) Thanks!

2) Only found Power (Gorge) so far, and not even the building. Do you know where Power (Fusion) [the Building] is? This would save me some time.

3) I think you understand me, I don't want to need a Uranium Mine IN the city for the complex, they should be somewhere in you empire. So there is no code needed except the PrereqBuildingClasses?

4) I will change it, thanks!

5) a) Ok, just an add-on
5) b) If it is an add-on, this won't be nessecary.
5) c) Like the Automation Clock replaces Town Clock?

6) Nope, not yet.

 

[Hydromancerx]

2) Its in Modules/Hydro/Goods.

3) Well the Nuclear Plant requires the Toxix Waste Dump somewhere in the empire. And has the code of ....

			<PrereqBuildingClasses>
				<PrereqBuildingClass>
					<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_TOXIC_WASTE_DUMP</BuildingClassType>
					<iNumBuildingNeeded>1</iNumBuildingNeeded>
				</PrereqBuildingClass>
			</PrereqBuildingClasses>

As you can see it set to one. Personally I think you should just set it to one mine. Howeve how are disposing of all the waste? Wouldn't you need a Toxic Waste Dump too?

5B and 5C) So I am not complty sure how DH has it work but in my Transportation mod I have a seperate files with dependencys. such as ..

Spoiler :

		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_CARAVAN_POST</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_CARAVAN_POST</Type>
			<AndDependencyTypes>
             	<DependencyType>BUILDINGCLASS_DEER_TRAINER</DependencyType>
 			</AndDependencyTypes>
			<PrereqOrBuildingClasses>
				<PrereqOrBuildingClass>
					<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_DEER_TRAINER</BuildingClassType>
					<bPrereqBuildingClass>1</bPrereqBuildingClass>
				</PrereqOrBuildingClass>
			</PrereqOrBuildingClasses>
		</BuildingInfo>

This basically says an OR building requirement for th Caravan Post if the Deer Trainer exists. Meaning if the Alt-Timeline Megafuana mod is turned on.

So somehow we need code that says like ...

Nuclear Power Plant is replaced by Clean Nuclear Power Plant when Clean Nuclear Power Plant exists.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I think the code would be ...

		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_NUCLEAR_PLANT</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_NUCLEAR_PLANT</Type>
			<AndDependencyTypes>
             	<DependencyType>BUILDINGCLASS_CLEAN_NUCLEAR_PLANT</DependencyType>
 			</AndDependencyTypes>
			<ReplaceBuildings>
				<ReplaceBuilding>
					<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_CLEAN_NUCLEAR_PLANT</BuildingClassType>
					<bReplace>1</bReplace>
				</ReplaceBuilding>
				<ReplaceBuilding>
					<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_HITECH_NUCLEAR_PLANT</BuildingClassType>
					<bReplace>1</bReplace>
				</ReplaceBuilding>
			</ReplaceBuildings>
		</BuildingInfo>

However I have <bForceOverwrite>1</bForceOverwrite> on mine so I am not sure if it will work. Or if I need to put it in my code.

DH would know.

 

[Faustmouse]

In the Clockpunk Mod the "bForceOveride" is not used:

		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_TOWNCLOCK</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_TOWNCLOCK</Type>
			<ReplaceBuildings>
				<ReplaceBuilding>
	<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_AUTOMATION_CLOCK</BuildingClassType>
					<bReplace>1</bReplace>
				</ReplaceBuilding>
			</ReplaceBuildings>
		</BuildingInfo>

 

[Hydromancerx]

Oh I see now then it should just be ...

		<BuildingInfo>
			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_NUCLEAR_PLANT</BuildingClass>
			<Type>BUILDING_NUCLEAR_PLANT</Type>
			<ReplaceBuildings>
				<ReplaceBuilding>
					<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_CLEAN_NUCLEAR_PLANT</BuildingClassType>
					<bReplace>1</bReplace>
				</ReplaceBuilding>
				<ReplaceBuilding>
					<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_HITECH_NUCLEAR_PLANT</BuildingClassType>
					<bReplace>1</bReplace>
				</ReplaceBuilding>
			</ReplaceBuildings>
		</BuildingInfo>

Note if you have different tags for your 2 Nuke power plants please chnage them. I had to guess their names.

Just include this code in your Atompunk building infos file.

 

[Faustmouse]

Ok, did all changes and added to SVN.

Please check out the "new" stats of the buildings and tell me what you'd like to change.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Ok, did all changes and added to SVN.

Please check out the "new" stats of the buildings and tell me what you'd like to change.

Ok some thing I think should be changed ...

Pushbutton Automat

1. Try not to use whenever possible, instead use . The reason is commerce is not only but also . Which makes no sense from a food dispenser.

2. I think your automat should not have Map Resources but instead produce manufactured resources. Such as ...

Spoiler :

• +1 from Alcohol
• +1 from Berries
• +1 from Bread
• +1 from Candy
• +1 from Cheese
• +1 from Dried Fish
• +1 from Dried Fruit
• +1 from Dried Meat
• +1 from Eggs
• +1 from Energy Drinks
• +1 from Fruit
• +1 from Ice Cream
• +1 from Milk
• +1 from Nutella
• +1 from Nuts
• +1 from Potato Chips
• +1 from Sausage
• +1 from Seasoning
• +1 from Soda Pop
• +1 from Vegetables
• +1 from Water Bottles

Mid Class Skypad Apartments

3. Since there is only one I think you should just call them "Skypad Apartments".

4. Please change the icon/button to this.

Nuclear Power Complex

5. This should not give any . Only the "Goods" building should be producing hammers. See how the 3 Gorge Dam and Fusion Power Plants work.

Hi-Tech Nuclear Reactors

6. To keep in line with all the other power plants You need to use normal and not % . My scale is +1 = 100 MW. Note that the ones that produce less than 1 MW were rounded up such as the Wave Power Plant.

A normal Nuclear Power plant Produces +15 or 1500 MW

Is Clean Nuclear suppose to be the same power output but cleaner? And then hi-Tech would be more power?