Return to 2 Civs ...

[jbieksha]

Dazz - For NITF, I was the last Human player. My second Civ got a religion. On another late start PBEM. I was the last of 4 starting in Classical, and I got one of the found religions.

Ancient is fine by me.

 

[Dazz_G]

We have already decided custom continents and 5 as the number of them. I also think Huge was the world size

The way I see it, if we do start on a computer generated map then it will be Custom Continents (5) as this will probably give the best chance of fairness.

If, however, Mitch can get someone to set the map up for us, then seeing as how things will be pretty much evened out for us, a random map type should be fine.

 

[Dazz_G]

Dazz - For NITF, I was the last Human player. My second Civ got a religion. On another late start PBEM. I was the last of 4 starting in Classical, and I got one of the found religions.

Ancient is fine by me.

I guess the computer was just randomly handing out the religions then ... either way, I would still feel Ancient to be the best choice.

 

[Dazz_G]

I THINK all settings (except the map) are done and dusted now.

Civs :

Dazz : Catherine & Julius
Mitch : Saladin & Qin
Joe : Liz & George
Chas : Haty & Mao
Ruff : Asoka & Louis

As for the map, I'm happy to wait a while longer if Mitch thinks he can get someone to set the map up for us or we can go ahead with the generated map.

 

[·Imhotep·]

Ruff asked me if I can set up the map for you. Sure I can. Just tell me what you want .

 

[Dazz_G]

Many thanks to Imhotep for agreeing to set this up for us.

I have sent him the following PM ...

"Many thanks for agreeing to do the map for us.

I don't really know exactly what info you need to set it up so I shall give you everything.

We want a Civ4 VANILLA Map

Custom Continents
Huge Size
Temperate Climate
Medium Sea
Ancient Era
Normal Speed
Number of Continents : 5

Each player is playing 2 teamed civs and there is also 5 random AI civs.

We are playing the following Civs

Team 1 : Catherine & Julius
Team 2 : Saladin & Qin
Team 3 : Elizabeth & George
Team 4 : Haty & Mao
Team 5 : Asoka & Louis

We would like each continent to house 2 player civs (not from the same team) and 1 AI civ.

We would ask you to ensure that each player civ has a roughly equal starting location.

We would also ask you to remove all Goody Huts and sources of Uranium.

I think that covers everything.

Once again, thanks for setting it up for us.

Dazz_G"

I think everything we wanted is in there.

 

[·Imhotep·]

You'll get the map tomorrow .

 

[Mitchum]

Hi Imhotep,

I've seen in some custom continents games where one is on a large land mass and the other civ is off on a 4 or 5 tile island just off the coast. Please regenerate the map if this happens or do some other magic to fix it.

By the way, if you remove Uranium, please be sure that every continent has access to oil.

Thanks,
Mitch

 

[ruff_hi]

Each player is playing 2 teamed civs and there is also 5 random AI civs.

I didn't realize this. I thought our two civs would share a continent and the other teams would be on theirs.

 

[Mitchum]

Ruff - each team does have it's own continent separate from the other tams. However, it looks like an extra AI civ will also be on each continent for us to beat up on and gain some experience for our troops.

 

[ruff_hi]

We would like each continent to house 2 player civs (not from the same team) and 1 AI civ.

Sorry - got the wrong quote. This quote seems to say that my civs will be on different continents.

 

[Dazz_G]

Maybe I misunderstood you guys but I thought the emphesis with setting up the map was to get fair start locations and to get rid of the huts.

I also thought that we were going to'mix it up a bit' by not having 1 team continents ... if you follow that path, somewhere down the line you will have continent A totally occupied by Team 1 and so on. The only way for human vrs human conflict then involves Naval invasions which basically means that, once all 5 AI are eliminated, there can be no more conflict until much later in the game.

To my way of thinking, that approach would be more suited to later game starts but if we are starting on Ancient then I don't think that is the way to go.

 

[ruff_hi]

I think Dazz G has presented a fair review of what will happen. However, if we have mixed team starts then each Civ will have to stand by itself (from a defensive position) and if one of the team members were eliminated, then that team is basically done.

Maybe the answer is to have the 5 continents reachable by galley (but a fair distance - maybe a series of single tile mountain islands?) and that would leave open the possibility of a team slipping a city onto another continent.

 

[Dazz_G]

I can see where Ruff is going with this but with the problem with the island chain idea is that if you want to stop anyone sending a galley up to 'your patch' all you have to do is stick a couple of your own galleys in the middle of the chain and the opponents galleys, which cannot enter ocean, cannot pass. Even if you do get your settlers to the other continent, you are going to have 1 city on a continent where you are facing a pair of teamed civs ... if they want you off their continent, it ain't gonna be hard for them to do it. This still brings you to the point where the only realistic possibility for conflict is full scale Naval invasions late game.

What you say about each civ being on their own is very true but that surely is the whole appeal ... every civ is going to be in the same situation - you know there is a player civ out there - do you try to engage dimlomatically or do you build up your military to defend or even to attack - an interesting dilema for each and every civ. Also leads to an interesting squabble over the AI territory stuck in the middle rather than the AI just being cannon fodder for two civs teamed against them.

 

[ruff_hi]

What you say about each civ being on their own is very true but that surely is the whole appeal ... every civ is going to be in the same situation - you know there is a player civ out there - do you try to engage dimlomatically or do you build up your military to defend or even to attack - an interesting dilema for each and every civ. Also leads to an interesting squabble over the AI territory stuck in the middle rather than the AI just being cannon fodder for two civs teamed against them.

Ok, now that does sound interesting. Can we ensure that each team has a different team member on their continent ... so that the following doesn't happen ...

Continent A, Teams 1 and 2
Continent B, Teams 1 and 2

Would expect to see ...

Continent A, Teams 1 and 2
Continent B, Teams 2 and 3
Continent C, Teams 3 and 4
Continent D, Teams 4 and 5
Continent E, Teams 5 and 1

 

[Mitchum]

This is starting to sound more and more interesting. I like it!!

I agree with Ruff that each continent should house a different pair of civs, although it doesn't necessarily need to be 1 &2, 2&3, 3 &4, etc. I'm assuming that you used this for illustrative purposed. It could be 1 & 2, 1 & 3, 3 & 4, etc. This will give the map maker more flexibility.

 

[ruff_hi]

I agree with Ruff that each continent should house a different pair of civs, although it doesn't necessarily need to be 1 &2, 2&3, 3 &4, etc. I'm assuming that you used this for illustrative purposed. It could be 1 & 2, 1 & 3, 3 & 4, etc. This will give the map maker more flexibility.

Totally. I was trying to be very general by using A, B, C, ... and 1, 2, 3, ... Guess I should have used a, b, c, ... for teams.

Imhotep could use the layout above and just jumble the 5 teams - not their starting order, just the way I have listed them.

 

[Dazz_G]

Thought you guys might like that idea

 

[Mitchum]

This game setup will definitely change the way we play the game. In the game where each team has it's own continent, all focus is on expanding as quickly as possible (peacefully, of course) and building wonders. Any wonder building in this game could lead to an early demise...

With this setup, I would have chosen different civs though...

 

[jbieksha]

No worries from Dazz's set-up for me. I'll deal with what comes along. Mostly means a more defensive start anyway.