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Returning to Civ after a long hiatus, tips?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Mike Hussey, Mar 4, 2010.

  1. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    You are far from losing. You are behind in tech, but you could get MT in 4 turns without going broke. Shut your science down afterward, and upgrade your riders. Take the Mongols or the Persians(Or maybe both) down hard for pointy-stick research. Cavalry is a huge breakthrough, and you have everything you need to get mean and nasty and carve out some more land for reseach farms.

    Persia would ruin your rep, so the Mongols look ripe.
     
  2. Mike Hussey

    Mike Hussey Cricketer

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    lol, if only these were my only problems. :( Just 1 turn after this save game is at, the Sumerians will invade with Cavalry on the Persian border. I tried a pre-emptive strike on the Cav stack but then they would drag the Mongols or Korea (or both into war with me). I didn't even have enough gold to support a layer of attackers to fortify on the Mongol border as they were all focused on the Persian war. The most assinine thing of all though is that I totally forgot to build embassies with all the other civs, and at this crucial juncture in time have insufficient gold to build them instantly and needless to say can't buy alliances etc. To compound the situation, I unwittingly broke a trade deal with Sumeria thousands of years ago and now my trading rep is totally broken.

    All of this wouldn't be a problem though if I had enough troops, even to last me for just another 4 turns, but I fear without the pre-emptive strike the Sumerians could push dangerously close to my capital and eliminate most of my Rider force in the process. Or at least according to my pessimistic predictions.
     
  3. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    Why not ally with Persia against Sumeria? By the way, why did you stop that war? You had the troops to annihilatte them. By the way, your flip risk is enormous, you should be burning and replacing enemy cities instead of keeping.
     
  4. Mike Hussey

    Mike Hussey Cricketer

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    I think you need embassies to have alliances or right of passage.
     
  5. CKS

    CKS Chieftain

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    Do the other civs have enough cash to let you buy an embassy with Persia? (I haven't looked at the save.) If so, tedious trading of maps (change one tile, sell the map to everyone with cash, change one tile, sell the map, etc.) will probably let you get your embassy.
     
  6. Mike Hussey

    Mike Hussey Cricketer

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    I played on for a few turns. Turns out the Sumerians send sporadic stacks of Cavalry only and I can deal with them mostly, so I didn't need any alliances thankfully. I waited 2 turns and got my Military Tradition (set research to zero now) so at least now I have cavalry of my own to deal with them. Still a very precarious position to be in though, with virtually no gold in the bank, the Sumerians could easily buy the Mongols into war with me (right now it's at a trade embargo).

    The plan is to hold the Sumerians off long enough so that I can sue for peace and then eventually transfer my cavalry force to the western border and wipe out the Mongols so that I can control that single choke point at the Japanese border and keep my empire safe with a few defensive units. Meanwhile I can fortify my Persian border and use Persia as a buffer against invasion from the more powerful civs.

    The only problem is whether I can keep up in the tech race. I think the Sumerians will be researching Industrialisation at the moment.
     
  7. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Mike Hussey, I took a look at the save.

    Looking backwards:
    I don't know how Sumeria got to be such a powerhouse compared to the rest of the world, but I think that could have been avoided. I also don't recall if you had iron, but it seems like you could have wiped out the Mongols a while back. I really like China, and I really like them for early wars. Some cheap raxes, some archers and some swords and those Mongolian lands could have been yours a while back. The Mongols aren't agri, aren't scientific, don't have a particularly good UU . . .

    Why are Shangnai, Nanking, and Tsingtao making cannons? They've got raxes and plenty of shields to be making Riders.

    I see a stack of 21 Riders sitting at New Xinjan. That's plenty to go and wreck the Persians. You have several unprotected border towns along the Mongolian border, and lots of workers that they could grab.

    Diplomacy:
    I see that you just made peace with Persia. Let's not go wrecking your reputation just yet.

    You sold something to the Sumerians for Silks. What was it? I hope it was important. Best advice: don't sell the Sumerians any more luxes. The AI is rotten with the lux slider, so let's not make that any easier on Gilgamesh.

    Not a single embassy.

    Military:
    1 pike
    1 musket
    15 cannons
    1 army (riders)
    33 riders
    3 trebs

    Comparisons vs.
    Egypt -- strong
    Japan -- strong
    Mongols -- strong
    Persia -- strong
    Sumeria -- weak
    Korea -- average
    Aztecs -- strong.

    Trade:
    Sumeria has 1916 gold. I want it, but I've got to figure out how to transfer that gold from them to me. I have nothing to sell them. So, we'll look around and see what else there is to bargain with. You share a border with the Mongols, so I don't really want to do any per-turn deals with them. Why? Because they're the most promising target. It looks like they have horses, but no iron. They do have wines, which I could use. If I had their horses, that would give me an extra set to trade, if I so desired.

    The only ones to whom I could sell a tech is Egypt. Unfortunately, Egypt doesn't look like it's long for this world and it has little or nothing that I need.. It's sandwiched between several more powerful nations, so I don't want to waste a lot of gold making deals with them possible.

    I build an embassy with Xerxes. You just made peace with him, and you share a land border with him. That means that trading with him is relatively safe. I also know, from reading your posts, that Sumeria is about to invade. The Persians wines, gems, iron, horses and saltpeter. They're building knights. Persepolis is pop 7, 2 of which are clowns, and guarded by one musket.

    I try out some trades with Xerxes, but I just don't think he's got any money. I try to trade a lux for tech, but he won't do it.

    I wake some of the 21 riders and send them west towards the Mongols. I'll use the rest to leader-fish on the Persian/Sumerian side of the world.

    Scrolling through cities:
    I swap Tatung from a university to a granary. Why a granary? Because a rax would have wasted 38 shields, and the granary will help it grow faster. Once it's up to size 12, sell the granary. Swap Macao from a cannon to a rax, due in 1, no shield loss. It's netting 7 spt, plenty to warrant a rax.

    You've got several cities that have more than 1 foreign citizen. Be more careful in starving them down.

    Swap Hamadan to a cannon. It was building a musket, but does not have a rax.

    Shantung is building an aque, but it's only at size 3, so it doesn't need one yet. Build a musket (due in 5 & Shantung has a rax) instead.

    Get someone to Baruun-Urt to quell that last resistor. Swap the aque that you're building there to a LB for that reason. BU has a rax, LB due in 4.

    Ningpo is building a worker, due (allegedly) in 1. Production box is full, growth in 5. Any idea how long that's been hanging like that? Swap to a cannon.

    Swap Yanghow from a temple to a musket. No rax, but you're a bit short on raxes for my taste. Besides, Yangchow is right on the Mongolian border, where there's fixin' ta be a war.

    Swap New Beijing from LB to MDI. Better defensive score, same cost. I like attackers, but I have 12 Riders on the way to this border. An MDI will never keep up with them.

    And back to Beijing. The only thing I see here is that you need to road the two forest tiles, and swap production to a Rider. Otherwise it looks good.

    Going forward:
    1) Fortify the Mongolian border.
    2) Move Riders over towards the Mongols.
    3) Use mostly vet riders to take out the mongols in the west.
    4) When the Sumerians attack in the east:
    a) see if you can buy Xerxes into an alliance with luxes.
    b) If that doesn't work, leader-fish on Sumerian cavs.

    Hope this has been of some help.
     
  8. Mike Hussey

    Mike Hussey Cricketer

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    Thanks Aabraxan. I took your advice and invaded the Mongols and surely enough they quite weak and I took them down to OCC. Then I switched up my forces and targeted Persia and took them down to OCC. After these two wars I consolidated and met Korea and Sumeria in a science race into the Modern Ages. These scientific civs are tough, usually have the Industrial Age the AI falls behind in tech, but in this case they were matching me but fortunately I had the Theory of Evolution pre-build up my sleeve.

    So after my period of rebuilding we went out and dogpiled the Aztecs, and then the Egyptians, wiping them both off the map. By this time Korea and Sumeria were both into the Modern Ages, so I stole Flight and joined them teching to Modern Armour. (Funnily enough this is only my 2nd time a game has lasted this far). I felt Korea was running away with the game, by building the UN and the Manhattan Project so I dogpiled them the other AIs left and brought them to their knees with 5 turn artillery and tank incursion with reduced them down to OCC. I starved their size 20 cities down and miraculously none flipped in the process. By the time the invasion finished I had also obtained Synthetic Fibers which I used to completely rape Japan and finally ended with a domination.

    One area of concern though is that I only ended up with +1243 gold per turn running specialist farms and with both research and lux at 0. How do you guys all get like +2 and 3k whilst research at max?
     
  9. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Sounds like you had a rockin' good time with that win, Mike! :goodjob:

    Honestly, that +1243 gpt sounds about right. If I make more than that in the late game, it's usually because I've got a strong AI or two and I'm selling them techs for gpt. You could make more from the farms if you have more of them, but you either need a larger map, or less water, or both.
     
  10. Mike Hussey

    Mike Hussey Cricketer

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    To be honest the Korean war was probably the most intense I've fought. I had about 60 artillery pieces and about 30 tanks and a few armies, however the enemy were fortifying their size 20+ cities with 3-4 mech infantry and quite a few TOW infantry. So using combat settlers I managed to get within striking distance of 5-6 Korean cities per cycle but was only able to nut out 1-2 per turn due to the high failure rates of the artillery. The whole war felt like fighting an iron wall.
     
  11. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    That does sound pretty intense. If they got that big and had fortified mechs, 1-2 cities per turn isn't bad. I don't see any mention of bombers, but I assume that you used them?
     

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