Revised Poll: COTM 07 options.

[ainwood]

The previous poll may have been a little flawed in that it might be skewed by the votes of people who are largely unaffected.

Please select the option that is most applicable to you, and where necessary, explain your reasoning in a post. Any restarted map will have the same starting tiles and map configuration, so that the pre-game discussion remains valid.

To outline what is wrong with the game:

1. Knights Templar: Produces ancient cavalry instead of crusaders. Can be patched to produce the crusaders, and the AC's upgraded to crusaders.
2. Statue Of Zeus: Produces Curraghs. Won't be built by the human anyway. Won't be patched.
3. Required techs for units in late industrial-age / modern age incorrect.Full List below.

As I see it, we have a few options. I would like to select the one that has the minimal effect on peoples' games, and is fairest overall.

A complete restart is obviously 'fair', however it is a complete pain for those with limited time (although a restart would result in an extension on the closing date to still give one month).

In the poll, "Wonders patched" means that the modern age tech tree will be left as-is, as will the Statue of Zeus. The Knights Templar will be changed to produce crusaders, and any ancient cavalry will be 'upgraded' to crusaders.

"Everything patched" means the Knights Templar will be patched, and the Unit tech rquirements fixed.

For those that have not started the game, please select your option on what is fairest for those that have already completed a significant portion of the game.



Full list of units affected by 'different' techs.
Spaceship parts are unaffected.

AEGIS Cruiser: Should be: Robotics, is: Integrated Defense
Cruise Missile: Should be: Rocketry, is: Fission
F-15: Should be: Rocketry, is: Fission
ICBM: Should be: Satellites, is: The Laser
Ironclad: Should be: Ironclads, is: Fascism
Jet Fighter: Should be: Rocketry, is: Fission
Mech Infantry: Should be: Computers, is: Recycling
Mobile SAM: Should be: Rocketry, is: Fission
Modern Armor: Should be: Synthetic Fibers, is: Satellites
Modern Paratrooper: Should be: Synthetic Fibers, is: Satellites
Nuclear Submarine: Should be: Fission, is: Computers
Radar Artillery: Should be: Robotics, is: Integrated Defense
Stealth Bomber: Should be: Stealth, is: Smart Weapons
Stealth Fighter: Should be: Stealth, is: Smart Weapons
Tactical Nuke: Should be: Space Flight, is: Nuclear Power
TOW Infantry: Should be: Rocketry, is: Fission

 

[Tubby Rower]

woo hoo!! first vote

I voted for option 1 {leave as is- haven't started yet} after voting for new map in the old poll. I changed my mind because I realize that some people have already finished it and should not have to replay the entire game. Let everyone have the same opportunity for success/failure.

I really don't care seeing that the majority of these issues I probably won't encounter as I am still learning (ie. losing). I'll probably start this game this weekend but I need to know whether or not to use the save I already have.

Casey

 

[Tone]

In the previous poll I voted for a restart. However I sympathise with those that haven't got time to start again and submit so IMO the next best thing is to have as level a playing field as possible. This is why I say let's carry on with no patches. I'll just have to put up with ACs when I capture KT in the next couple of turns

 

[denyd]

Another vote for play on (I'm late middle ages and KT & SOZ are on the other island).

I don't think the Modern Age tech shift will have much impact. Most players don't get that far (Conquest & Domination results) and those that do, usually have the game in hand and are either milking or going for Diplomatic/Space Race.

 

[solenoozerec]

I vote “Before Knights Templar / Leave it as-is.”
Why:
First reason: I am against a restart because there is a potential timing problem: Someone who played through entire game may have no time to play it again (I not always have time to play 2GOTMs a month, playing three sounds impossible, fortunately I just started this one).
IMO even one such case is enough to make a restart a bad option.
Second reason is less serious. I think it might be fun to play with broken tech tree for a change. Having ironclad with steam power sounds as a nice Xmas bonus.

 

[StanNP]

My vote was After Knights Templar/Patch everything.

My vote is highly selfish because I built the Knights Templar and I have a stack of 4 Ancient Cavalry waiting to be upgraded for some war-making!

I realize that for those who have already completed, it might be unfair to patch now, so I'm OK with no changes and proceeding as is. However, I would expect that any of us who encountered the problem with Knights Templar that I did would react as I did.

1). Screenshot
2). Msg Ainwood and ask if there is a problem or post on the forum about the issue.
3). Play to a stopping point where fixing the problem is still possible and wait for a resolution/reply.

Given this reaction to a perceived problem, I conclude that those who submitted games were likely not impacted significantly, so they are not losing out by allowing those of us in mid-game to patch and finish.

Thanks for the prompt and reasoned responses from Ainwood and the community.

StanNP

 

[Renata]

Had to think about this one a while. I may never be affected, as the earliest I'll be able to start is in about two weeks and I may not have time to finish. (Still in mourning over GOTM37, waaaaahhh. Ok, back to topic.) I don't think that the unintended changes are significant for most players who are going into it forewarned -- even those who play into the late game should be able to compensate without too much trouble. The tech paths will just be slightly different. So for me, I just say leave it alone -- no changes. But I think that those who have already started should have the most say; if that group wants something else, they should probably get it. So far there doesn't seem to be a consensus, though.

Renata

 

[CKS]

As I write this, the various leave-as-is situations are significantly ahead.

I haven't started yet and voted for leaving things as they are. This will give me an advantage over those who've started already, because I know to look for strange things, but I don't think it will be very big. However, whatever is decided will be fine with me.

I just got Conquests, and this will be my first COTM, so I would likely not have noticed anything screwy without these threads. If ainwood claimed this was the way it was supposed to be, I'd go along with it.

 

[MiniMe]

Again I voted 'leave as is'. I built Knights Templar and I prefer the AC. Maybe we could make a permanent change of Knights Templar ?? Just kidding

 

[Xarin]

I voted "before KT, leave as is." I'm around 850BC in my game. I'm not sure how much of my desire to not restart is because I've had a good start and how much comes from time constraints, although I don't think those will be so bad. Most of it though comes simply from the fact that I really don't want to have wasted all the time I have invested already. I take a *lot* more time than most people during the QSC, making a detailed text file, and I really don't want to see that wasted. Restarting may be the best option though. Patching I wouldn't mind too much, but I'm against patching in general. Anyway, I don't really care too much however it goes, this is just my preference. The early game is usually the funnest part anyway.

 

[SirPleb]

I'm past Knights of Templar and have voted to play on. A new map would be fun but that's not enough reason to ask for one In terms of impact on my game the effect of the glitches is nearly zero.

 

[cybergogo]

I voted "Before Knights Templar - leave it as it is" even if I have chosen to restart in the previous poll.
I have not even played untill 1000 BC and chances are high that my game will not be affected by any of the problems ... and that I could not finish and submit because of RL .
However, I could still make it on time if we could avoid a restart.

 

[Jansku]

I don't think it's a big issue if one has built the templar in vain and lost some shields.. Many other random events in the game can make a bigger difference, such as a neighboring civ building a useful wonder that is easy to conquer, or getting a couple of great leaders by chance. If you don't get a great leader, it's bad luck - if you built a templar in this game, that's also bad luck. Therefore, I voted for "leave it as-is".

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I really don't care. I'm in late IA now, but the game was such a fun up to now, I would have no problems with either option of a complete restart ot continuing.
But I'm against patching - this would simply not be fair to those who struggled for the KT, or minimal research on Ironclads...

Btw, with Predator this time giving the AI the unit support of 2 levels higher, a high score seems pretty much impossible - but fun is better anyway .

 

[ainwood]

My vote was After Knights Templar/Patch everything.

My vote is highly selfish because I built the Knights Templar and I have a stack of 4 Ancient Cavalry waiting to be upgraded for some war-making!

Not really selfish - you built the KT expecting crusaders, and didn't get them.

In both cases, I assumed a vet unit against a pikeman in grassland (10% defensive bonus):
Vet ancient cav (3/3/2, fast attacker, 5 HP): Win = 72, Lose = 15, retreat = 13.
Vet Crusader (5/3/1, 4 HP): Win = 82, Lose = 18.

Secondly, the pikeman is in a city on a hill:
Vet ancient cav (3/3/2, fast attacker, 5 HP): Win = 42, Lose = 31, retreat = 27.
Vet Crusader (5/3/1, 4 HP): Win = 57, Lose = 43.

From this, I'd conclude that the units are actually fairly similar (especially when you factor the faster movement of the AC)


Not trying to sway you here - just pointing out that this stuff-up isn't a complete game breaker.

 

[ainwood]

Btw, with Predator this time giving the AI the unit support of 2 levels higher, a high score seems pretty much impossible - but fun is better anyway .

Yay another mistake. But that one's a typo (support is at demigod level).

 

[Randy]

I did not down load the game yet(I just finished GOMT 37 @ 2 AM) so I will wait untill we know what is happening. I will down load it then and play what ever version is there.

 

[Nichelle]

First, thanks to Ainwood for being so concerned about what is best for the COTM community and wanting imput from us to fix the minor problem.

I have already submitted my game and think the game should be played as is.

It seems that most people who are well into the game haven't had too many issues with the bug, and those who are going to play now have ample warning about what's going on....so....why change????

I understand some people may want it fixed so they don't have to adapt to the new set up, but no one will be building Zeus, Knight's Tem production should be alright with everyone, and as far as the rest of the units.....they'll come when they come.

I would also be curious if there were a restart or patches, would that invalidate my game? Would I need to restart? Not that I would mind playing again, but time (as everyone has stated) is a bit constricted for the next few weeks.

I think that wraps up, in a not so short message, my views on things.

Thanks again to Ainwood!

 

[StanNP]

From this, I'd conclude that the units are actually fairly similar (especially when you factor the faster movement of the AC).

Thanks Ainwood, you really did not need to go to the trouble to run that!

I'm ready to play on without changes.

Did I mention how much I appreciate GOTM?

StanNP

 

[Ambiorix]

Knights' Templar hasn't been built yet in my game.
Since the wonders don't seem to be much of an issue, and the affected late-game units are fewer than I imagined them to be, I voted for 'leave it as is', hoping that people who reach that part of the tech tree are not too much upset about it.

I also want to take back some of my previous words in the earlier poll : most people DO vote from a general interest point of view, apparantly. I guess I underestimated my fellow players.
Thanks for reacting quickly, Ainwood.