Revolution IOT

[Mathalamus]

...we already did. i am sure i am allowed to withdraw, despite the consequences.

To the Soviet union.

you heard the Hegemony. they have enough bombs to wipe out Egypt, Brazentia, the European Union and Spain and still have bombs to spare. the best we can do is waste their bombs on us, and i seriously doubt it will be a deciding factor in the win or lose war.

the spainish Republic is conducting a vote whether to leave the Pact.

obliterate us if you must, but know that if we had stayed, we would be little more than target practice.

edit: what use is strength in unity of half the nations get obliterated instantly?

 

[Turquoiside]

If there was a balance of power, we would gratefully sign such a promise. The problem is that, even now, things are still shifted heavily in the USSR's favor. Though maybe it is time for some kind of peace that isn't cold. We're torn on the issue.

We will pledge not to develop X-Bombs if all the other nations do so, but we will continue to construct H-Bombs until there is global nuclear disarmament.

I think this is all the reason you will need to stop or avoid development of X-bombs. You and the Soviets will both be using H-Bombs and thus be on an equal playing field. However, should the Hegemony develop X-bombs the Soviets would simply do the same, thus resulting in no great advantage for either side and only increased suffering.

 

[Sonereal]

I think this is all the reason you will need to stop or avoid development of X-bombs. You and the Soviets will both be using H-Bombs and thus be on an equal playing field. However, should the Hegemony develop X-bombs the Soviets would simply do the same, thus resulting in no great advantage for either side and only increased suffering.

The problem is that, again, what we to take of the USSR calling for nuclear disarmament? Nuclear disarmament only works if both sides feel that its in their best interests. It isn't in ours since we're outnumbered.

 

[Mathalamus]

The problem is that, again, what we to take of the USSR calling for nuclear disarmament? Nuclear disarmament only works if both sides feel that its in their best interests. It isn't in ours since we're outnumbered.

but you JUST said that you can obliterate four or five small nations instantly.

 

[Sonereal]

but you JUST said that you can obliterate four or five small nations instantly.

And then what? We're just pointing out that yes, we will wipe our four or five nations instantly. That's to keep you guys from getting involved. In the end, however, there will still be a pretty much even nuclear war between the Soviets and us and then the naval battles in the Pacific and Khitan and....well, it's a mess. But our thinking is that sure, we can wipe out the Soviets or Khitan with a single volley but we would still be fighting a multi-front war.

But wiping our several smaller powers instantly and then publicly stating that that is what we would do in a war is deterrence.

 

[Turquoiside]

The problem is that, again, what we to take of the USSR calling for nuclear disarmament? Nuclear disarmament only works if both sides feel that its in their best interests. It isn't in ours since we're outnumbered.

But you're still out numbered even with nukes, a fact this is unavoidable and can only be surmounted with keen diplomacy. The USSR will always be able to outmuscle and outproduce you, with or without nukes. They're less dangerous when they have less potent weapons over you. The advantage gap merely gets wider as mutual weapons become more advanced.

 

[Tee Kay]

you heard the Hegemony. they have enough bombs to wipe out Egypt, Brazentia, the European Union and Spain and still have bombs to spare. the best we can do is waste their bombs on us, and i seriously doubt it will be a deciding factor in the win or lose war.

We don't listen to the Hegemony, to be honest. They only spout demoralizing, aggrandizing lies.

Let's compare the power of the larger Peking Charter nations (assuming they sign) and the Hegemony:

USSR - 95 LPs
DB Corp - 85 LPs
The Qaghanate - 83 LPs
Yugoslavia - 67 LPs
American Federation - 61 LPs
Spain - 53 LPs

Total - 444 LPs

The Hegemony - 107 LPs

We outproduce the Hegemony by a factor of four.

Even if the Hegemony launch 200 nukes at us, we'd still be outproducing them by a factor of two, and such an action would provoke a massive Soviet nuclear strike that would cripple the Hegemony's ability to make war.

The Hegemony is overexaggerating its nuclear capabilities. H-Bombs are not guaranteed to create wastelands, and X-Bombs are some years away and rather more expensive than H-bombs. If Spain really do get wiped out by a sustained nuclear strike, it will be restored and Hegemony territories will also be added to it.

In any case, I don't think we want to be at a stage where the Hegemony has 200 nuclear weapons. Now is the time we should all stand together, and let them know that fascism is unacceptable, and that we will not allow ourselves to be bullied and blackmailed with their nuclear arsenal. And we need everyone on board, including you, our Spanish comrades.

 

[Mathalamus]

right. we want to Buy all of Hegemon south America. how many provinces is that?

edit: a factor of 4? i thought it was much less.

the Spanish people, brave and strong and freedom lovers vote to stay and honor the pact.

President: we are fully aware that we can and will be obliterated in one hit shoudl they choose. however, we will have the last laugh when the Soviets conquer the Fascists. Because of this, Spain requests a large embassy to be built in Moscow.

Spain may decide to start the nuclear program.

 

[Sonereal]

But you're still out numbered even with nukes, a fact this is unavoidable and can only be surmounted with keen diplomacy. The USSR will always be able to outmuscle and outproduce you, with or without nukes. They're less dangerous when they have less potent weapons over you. The advantage gap merely gets wider as mutual weapons become more advanced.

You're looking at it wrong. It gets to the point where there are so many bombs that at some point, the extra is just there to prove a point. The difference between 3 hydrogen bombs and 1 is bigger than the difference between 300 and 200.

That's the entire focus of our policy at this point. We know we're outproduced and outnumbered so we're going to keep stockpiling until at some point, it doesn't matter. The "nuclear gap" would look as silly as a "mine shaft gap" in the end when there are hundreds of bombs ready to be dropped.

The USSR and Khitan leadership suffers under the delusion that they can somehow "win" a war where the other power has dozens, or even hundreds of hydrogen bombs. They fail to take into account that their armies would be wiped out, a large chunk of their former territory turned neutral with much of that turned into wasteland. In short, war is unfavorable to both of us.

 

[Turquoiside]

You're looking at it wrong. It gets to the point where there are so many bombs that at some point, the extra is just there to prove a point. The difference between 3 hydrogen bombs and 1 is bigger than the difference between 300 and 200.

That's the entire focus of our policy at this point. We know we're outproduced and outnumbered so we're going to keep stockpiling until at some point, it doesn't matter. The "nuclear gap" would look as silly as a "mine shaft gap" in the end when there are hundreds of bombs ready to be dropped.

The USSR and Khitan leadership suffers under the delusion that they can somehow "win" a war where the other power has dozens, or even hundreds of hydrogen bombs. They fail to take into account that their armies would be wiped out, a large chunk of their former territory turned neutral with much of that turned into wasteland. In short, war is unfavorable to both of us.

The USSR (and apparently the Khitan who hitherto made no official announcement of their views here) would simply not be alone. How many of your ''hundred" bombs do you think it will take?

 

[Sonereal]

The USSR (and apparently the Khitan who hitherto made no official announcement of their views here) would simply not be alone. How many of your ''hundred" bombs do you think it will take?

Simple math that says at current rate of production+further claiming and increasing amounts of production, we'll have over 200 hydrogen bombs by the end the decade. Accounting for the growth of Socialist Brazentina, the ER, Spain, and Egypt during this time says we'll use anywhere between 120-150 hydrogen bombs to wipe them out. Thank goodness Spain gave us 5 XPs for our Portuguese territories since that clanked up production to an extra 1 hydrogen bomb a year. Every point counts.

Of course, the end number of bombs may end up being between 150-200 if X-Bomb production comes online before then.

 

[Mathalamus]

well i had to get rid of a potential beachhead... if the hydrogen bombs don't strike Spain.

 

[Sonereal]

well i had to get rid of a potential beachhead... if the hydrogen bombs don't strike Spain.

Trust us. They will. If you side with the USSR militarily of course.

Again, all this talk of how the Hegemony is outproduced and outnumbered doesn't change the fact the Soviets and Khitans seem ok with the idea of four "lesser" nations being wiped out. Which is weird given that Spain itself is a moderately powerful nation.

 

[Mathalamus]

these nations can be restored. as long as their leadership flees to moscow.

 

[Double A]

we tried to be neutral. i just get too worked up. and yes i am aware that we will eb the first to go.

the Spanish senate is still debating on the practical applications of neutrality and whether it is worth getting the Soviets pissed off at us. dont worry, neutrality is what we are best at.

Contradictory statement is contradictory.

 

[Sonereal]

these nations can be restored. as long as their leadership flees to moscow.

Restored? Each territory the X-Bombs land in will turn to wasteland and become inhospitable for ten years. Each territory around an X-Bomb landing has a 20% chance of becoming wasteland.

Now imagine three X-Bombs dropping in the relatively confined area of Iberia and you see the problem. Sure, Spain can recover....in ten years, destruction of every building in Spain, deaths of hundreds of millions, and radiation.

 

[Double A]

In short, stop complaining about atomic bombs.

 

[Tee Kay]

Again, all this talk of how the Hegemony is outproduced and outnumbered doesn't change the fact the Soviets and Khitans seem ok with the idea of four "lesser" nations being wiped out. Which is weird given that Spain itself is a moderately powerful nation.

We're not "okay" with the idea of four "lesser" nations being wiped out. Any nation wiped out by the Hegemony will be restored - if not in their original homeland, then somewhere else until the wasteland could be cleared.

However, the Hegemony does seem to be okay with the idea of conducting genocides using nuclear weapons, and threatening entire nations with destruction as blackmail. If this isn't the mark of a dangerous, untrustworthy, power-mad nation then I don't know what is.

 

[Double A]

However, the Hegemony does seem to be okay with the idea of conducting genocides using nuclear weapons, and threatening entire nations with destruction as blackmail. If this isn't the mark of a dangerous, untrustworthy, power-mad nation then I don't know what is.

A Charlie Chaplain mustache?

 

[Mathalamus]

Restored? Each territory the X-Bombs land in will turn to wasteland and become inhospitable for ten years. Each territory around an X-Bomb landing has a 20% chance of becoming wasteland.

Now imagine three X-Bombs dropping in the relatively confined area of Iberia and you see the problem. Sure, Spain can recover....in ten years, destruction of every building in Spain, deaths of hundreds of millions, and radiation.

gross exaggeration. Spain only has 50 million people, roughly.

but the Soviet union will simply make sure nothing s standing in the Hegemony...