suspendinlight
Prince
jdog5000 said:
Looks great! Can't wait to try the new version....and probably bother you with bugs and suggestions...
Revolution: with BarbarianCiv, Rebellion, AIAutoPlay
- Thread starter jdog5000
- Start date
Looks great! Can't wait to try the new version....and probably bother you with bugs and suggestions...
jdog5000
Revolutionary
In terms of text, not much changed specifically because of Warlords. The latest version has a few new kinds of revolutions with new text, and the improved rev watch popup has a bunch of text support, but much of the text remains the same. I might put all the text into an XML document for the next release, so if you waited for that you wouldn't have to re-redo the work ...Caesium said:
There are a lot of changes in the Python API between Vanilla and Warlords, so switching between the two is not as simple as removing the Vassal State portions ... in Warlords, culture and commerce etc are now shown as decimals (4.27), so some access functions return culture time 100 for example. Firaxis also exposed more functions to Python, so the AIAutoPlay SDK changes were much smaller as I didn't have to expose the functions.
jdog5000
Revolutionary
0.7w has a whole lot of new features, and should be more fun as you'll now know why your cities are against you ...suspendinlight said:
Looks great! Can't wait to try the new version....and probably bother you with bugs and suggestions...
Improved revolution watch popup details screen:
Improved revolution warning popup:
Hey, love this mod, I was just wondering what determines if premade maps are compatible with this? For example "Pantastic's Huge Earth with Expanded Europe 24 Civs" Works fine, whereas "Europe 61*45 for Warlords (with north Africa and the near East)" crashes while the map is loading.
I'd really like to use this on additional premade maps, and was wondering how to go about doing just that.
I'd really like to use this on additional premade maps, and was wondering how to go about doing just that.
XXXTHOUGHTS ON SID MEIERS CIVILIZATION IV REVOLUTIONXXX
The way I potentially see Sid Meiers Civilization IV Revolution is a mod that emulates the rise and fall of empires and does not only give a more dynamic and fun game, but also gives a more true illustration of history. I have composed a list of potential features that all on some level contribute to this vision:
XXXREPLIESXXX
Reply to JDog:
New version 0.7w post to FP.
The game is now much more balanced, and the feature where you can see what elements cause the potential fall of your empire is very useful. Good work!
Many factors (both positive and negative) had their strength increased, so revolutions will happen more quickly when situation is bad, die out when you improve it.
That does sound great and very realistic, and it does work very well I just played a game where revolutions worked perfectly.
I hadn't thought of matching civics for peaceful revolutions ... currently the revolutionaries have all their civics set to the lowest, and they have to revolt to change them. But for peaceful revolutions, matching civics is a good idea.
Great! I am glad to see that I can help.
How you all feel about permanent alliances? I often don't play with them on, and I think Vassal States are more interesting ... another thing that could be done is to have peaceful revolutionaries you let go spawn on your team. The difficulty is, for this to seem realistic, there would have to be a mechanism for them to eventually break free. I guess I'd be inclined to use capitulated and normal Vassals instead, and not have to reinvent the wheel ... how does that sound?
I agree the permanent alliances features was not the best idea from me. In this post I suggest a different, more refined, look on different types of revolutions.
Yeah, the little one square islands of territory bother me too ... anyone know of a mod that takes care of this already? They can happen in the normal game too.
In my last game borders worked very well: Did you change it yourself?
Your proposal of 5 turns of Anarchy is interesting, although some things would have to be tweaked in the current revolution system ... even after the revolting cities are quieted because they get their way in changing the leader, 5 turns of anarchy would cause a new round of revolting without some changes (after the first turn, each turn of anarchy causes a big boost in rev indices). But it does provide a punishment without you totally losing control.
Currently I am playing without the leader change option, but later in this post I do suggest a reformation of bureaucracy demand from your population, which would cause 3 turns of anarchy.
In there
Yeah I often post features that are already implanted next to potential features. This is to create a larger perspective on the entire game, so it is easier to see if a feature does not "fit".
Certainly could be done ... but is it realistic? Maybe I have this liberal/1984 view that the state has to 'convince' people they want to go to war. Having political relations cause the populace to ask for war is a little strange to me ...
There have often been conflicts between nations where predigest emotions and racism were catalysts to a national war. The government often reflects society, and if society is a bunch of racist *******s, then the government is likely to declare war on those grounds.
One thing that totally could be done, is to religious leaders ask you to free your state religions holy city from heathens! I can see it now, the great Buddhist Crusades But seriously, I think that would be awesome ...
Seen you have already added this. It works very well.
My excuse for not putting that in was the human player should just mop them up ... but you're right, little civs should be able to assimilate with the human player too. It'll be in the next version.
Great! I would like if you posted what exact factors cause a civilization to assimilate. Maybe it should happen a little bit more frequent?
Your financial state is already an important part of this mod, if your science and culture sliders are really low, and you don't have or aren't making much money, lookout! The sky will fall pretty quick! I don't intend to rework the economic system in the near future though ... a lot of work in the depths of the SDK.
Yeah it is in the game, but it could work more realistically without getting too complex. I remain stubborn and I have once again - in this post - written how the financial system of the game could be improved. The most important financial elements are interdependence and burst of economy and I have tried to find a way they could be implanted in a very simple fashion so it should not be too difficult to add to the game. What one must see is that these two financial elements have been the cause of many wars and the reason why some once grand civilizations have fallen. I think these features would vastly improve the game.
The buyoff option partially does this internally
Yes and it works very well. I think the citizen demands are fine the way they are. I have however written more, but it is more or less meant as inspiration. I think there are other things, which are at the current moment much more important to think about than the desire of your population.
Thanks for the input, I love when people post ideas ... if it's something I've thought about, it lets me know I'm on the right track, and if it's new, then the pool of ideas to pull from just got bigger! I'm glad you're enjoying playing and thinking about this as much as I am.
Like ideas? Well then get ready to reach Nirvana since I have posted a lot of new ideas
XXXBUGSXXX:
One City Revolution:
When I play I often see these 1 city revolutions, which does seem a bit like an insignificant revolution, which would not make a lot of sense since Sid Meier's Civilization focuses on larger-scale events and macromagement. Personally I think it should be much more likely that 3 or more cities took part of a revolution and very unlikely that a single city claimed independence.
No peaceful revolutions:
I have only seen violent revolutions occur to my computer opponent. Do peaceful revolutions even happen to the computer? It could just be my game, which just from random reasons did not have many computer peaceful revolutions.
No Manual:
As the game becomes more complex it would be nice to have a manual, which illustrates all the features and how they work. It would also be nice with some advice on strategy on how to avoid revolutions and such. I would like to help here if you want.
No Civelopedia:
The new features should be added here, though this could wait.
XXXFEATURESXXX:
Here I suggest a lot of new features some of them already implanted in the game. Some should be fairly easy to add to the game while others could be a tedious nightmare. I tried to simplify the method of how the feature could work in the game in order to stay true to the streamlined game and not to give JDog too much of a headache.
Some ideas have a historical reference. It is not always the best historical reference that I have picked, but it is meant as a quick guide to people who want to read more about the feature from a more profound perspective.
New Features Priority List:
Of the features I have suggested I have created a list of which features I think would be the most valuable/important to add. All of these features are explained in detail later in the document:
1# Federations: - Very Important To Add
We have empires that split, but not many that merge. I also think having federations form would reflect history very well since there has always been some superpowers that have had a lot of influence.
Interdependence:
When a nation falls it often drags down its allies, this would not only be historically correct, but it will also force the player to choose his or her allies more carefully.
Economy Burst:
A sudden burst of ones economy has often occurred thru out history and is often the reason why a nation falls.
Collapsed Regime:
In order to create more dynamic I think some empires so completely fall. So that not all empires are happy industrial nations - some of them could be developing countries.
More Complex Revolution Type:
This would add more depth to the game.
Societys Desire: Least Important To Add
This would be very very time consuming, but I have tried to make a realistic model to how it should work since it is already somewhat implanted in the game. Another problem with this is that it could change the game too much and alienate the player.
Civilization Split:
What leads to Revolution:
JDog I would like if you made a reply where you wrote what factors increase the [revolution index] (and by how much), so they can be discussed and new overlooked factors might be added.
Types of Revolutions:
It is important that there are different types of revolutions more than just peaceful or not since it not only creates a more dynamical game it also emulates history in a more correct fashion. I have divided revolutions into four groups where one is less pleasant than the other:
Amicable Revolution:
Definition:
New civilization is a vassal state of previous owner.
New civilization shares religion of previous owner.
New civilization shares civics of previous owner.
New civilization is very friendly towards previous owner
The revolution costs no gold from previous owner.
Revolution Requires:
Discovery of Feudalism
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland
Note:
Pacifistic Revolution:
Definition:
New civilization has open borders with previous owner.
New civilization shares religion of previous owner.
New civilization does not share civics of previous owner.
New civilization is friendly towards previous owner
The revolution costs little gold from previous owner.
Revolution Requires:
None
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba#Independence
Note:
Hostile Revolution:
Definition:
New civilization is at war with previous owner.
New civilization does not share religion of previous owner.
New civilization has reversed civics of previous owner.
New civilization is hostile towards previous owner.
The revolution costs some gold from previous owner.
Revolution Requires: None
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_independence
Note:
Ruinous Revolution:
Definition:
Two new civilizations are spawned from previous owner.
New civilizations are at war with previous owner.
New civilizations do not share religion of previous owner.
New civilizations have reversed civics of previous owner.
New civilizations are very hostile towards previous owner
Both new civilizations and previous owner become Collapsed Regimes (explained later)
The revolution costs much gold from previous owner.
Revolution Requires:
The discovery of Code of Laws (In order for law and order to break down it needs to exist)
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_reich
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Rwanda
Note:
Civilization Merger:
As civilizations have a tendency to split thou out history they also have a tendency to merge. There are two methods where a civilization can merge:
Assimilation:
Already working fine, JDog, though I would like if you would post a detailed summary of what specifically causes assimilation.
Federation:
Definition:
Nations can sometimes join each others in a Federation. This is natural, historically correct and would increase the dynamic of the game. I would love to see a huge superpower be formed and suddenly becoming very influential. This would also create a more natural outlook on the game where some civilizations are superpowers and some are just nations.
Consequence:
Three or more Civilizations with similar civics and open borders who are on the same continent might form a federation.
The leader of the largest civilization, who merges, becomes the leader of the new civilization. The new civilization also has the color of his previous civilization (so what really happens is that one civilization gains control of the others and changes its name)
When a Federation falls it becomes the civilizations that formed the federation.
The new civilization becomes one of the following civilizations:
United States of America:
Special Traits:
25% more production in all cities
3+ relations with all civilizations who are not unions
3+ added to [revolution index] each turn in all cities
10 free units when union formed
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_states_of_america
Note:
United States of Europe:
Special Traits:
25% more commence in all cities
2+ relations with all civilizations who are not unions
1+ added to [revolution index] each turn in all cities
5 free units when union formed
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_states_of_europe
Note:
Soviet Union
Special Traits:
25% less maintenance cost
2+ relations with all civilizations who are not unions
4+ added to [revolution index] each turn in all cities
20 free units when union formed
Historical Reference:
Note:
Kalmar Union:
Special Trait:
25% higher chance of generating great people
3+ relations with all civilizations who are not unions
4+ added to [revolution index] each turn
15 free units when union formed
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmar_union
Note:
Union of Myanmar
Special Trait:
25% more culture in all cities
3+ relations with all civilizations who are not unions
1+ added to [revolution index] each turn
0 free units when union formed
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar
Note:
Societys Desire:
!!!This feature has not been done edited very well and should only be seen as inspiration!!!
Through out history control has very often had a formal leader who represented the nation, however there has always been some forces behind the leader who stood as a catalyst to many of his or her decisions. If the leader listens to the predilections of society the nation will become more stabile, however if the leader refuses then a civil war is not only more likely to occur, but also more likely to become violent.
It is also important to remember that the forces of the civilizations desire changes though out time, and thus I have divided them into 7 groups. Do note that the requests given to the leader might not be limited to a certain age; for example some of the requests of the tribal age may be found in the classical era and so forth:
Tribal Age
Decisions lead by Shamans and Social Darwinism
Classical Era
Decisions lead by Social Darwinism and Dynasties
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece
Medieval Age
Decisions lead by Dynasties and The Church
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_ages
Early Modern Age:
Decisions Made by The Church and The Wealthy
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_revolution
Modern Age:
The Wealthy and Nationalism
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war_1
Late Modern Age:
Decisions lead by Nationalism and The Majority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war_2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_war
Post-Modern Age
Decisions lead by The Majority and The Church
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_civilizations
(The post-modern age represents today, and even though one would assume that religion has little influence I would beg to differ The entire administration of the worlds only super power is very Christian and Holy War has been declared)
Tribal Age Desires:
Blood Conflict:
Obsolete with: Discovery of Theology
Description:
Your tribe views a different tribe/civilization as different and less superior and feels that they can show dominance by declaring war.
Consequence:
Contacted civilization, which is less powerful than you, picked at random before popup. You declare war with that civilization.
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Mass Sacrifice:
Obsolete With: Discovery of Monotheism
Description:
Your tribe favors a large sacrifice to their gods:
Consequence:
1 Population is eliminated from random city with more than 1 population.
+ 10 Culture
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Classical Era:
Monument:
Requires: Discovery of Construction
Obsolete with: Representation or Universal Suffrage civic
Definition: In order to keep your god-like image you must create a monument which shows your divine powers.
Consequence:
- 10 hammers
+ 10 Culture
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Reformation of Bureaucracy:
Requires: Discovery of Code of Laws
Definition: Your civilization demands changes within your empires leadership and structure.
Consequence:
3 Turn Anarchy
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Redemption of Slaves:
Requires: Slavery civic
Definition: A group of slaves demand independence and would cause riot and instability if they do not have their way!
Consequence:
1 Worker unit disbanded
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
Medieval Age:
Religious War:
Requires: Discovery of Divine Right
Obsolete With: Discovery of Nationalism
Definition:
If another civilization has a different religion than you the priests will advice you to destroy those barbaric heathens!
Consequence:
Contacted civilization, which has a different religion than you, picked at random before popup. You declare war with that civilization.
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
+ 1 free unit
Historical Reference:
Crusade:
Requires: Discovery of Theology
Obsolete with: Free Religion civic
Definition:
If holy city is located within the borders of another civilization who has a different religion than you then your priests will advice you to declare war so you can retrieve the holy city.
Consequence:
Contacted civilization, which has a different religion than you and your religions holy city, picked at random before popup. You declare war with that civilization.
+ 1 free unit
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade
Spreading The Word of God:
Requires Discovery of Priesthood:
Definition:
Your priests will advice you to spread the word of the true God.
Consequence:
- 10 gold
1 Free Missionary
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
Religious Revolution:
Requires: Discovery of Priesthood
Obsolete with: Discovery of Liberalism
Definition:
Your priests are being overthrown and your population has been interested in a different religion and seeks to convert.
Consequence:
Your civilization converts to a different more popular religion.
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
Early Modern Age:
Luxury:
Requires: Discovery of Banking
Definition:
The wealthy might demand that your Culture bar is permanently raised by 10%
Consequence:
Culture bar permanently raised by 10%
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
Early Economical Malcontent:
Requires: Discovery of Economics
Obsolete with: Discovery of Ecology
Definition:
The wealthy seeks a more flexible system of trade.
Consequence:
If you have Decentralization or Mercantilism the wealthy will demand Free Market.
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
Governmental Malcontent:
Requires: Discovery of Constitution and Hereditary Rule civic
Definition:
The people - united with the wealthy seek to overthrow the king!
Consequence:
If you have Hereditary Rule as a civic the people might ask you to change to Representation or Universal Suffrage.
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
- 10 Culture
Modern Age:
Labores Malcontent:
Requires: Discovery of Liberalism
Definition: As other people than the royal has money a ideas of liberalism to the people start to unravel.
Consequence:
If you have Tribalism, Slavery, Serfdom, Caste System as a civic the people will ask you to change to Emancipation.
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Cultural War:
Requires: Nationalism
Obsolete With: Discovery of Fusion
Definition:
If another civilization has different civics than you your people might demand war.
Consequence:
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War
Religious Malcontent:
Requires: Industrialism
Obsolete With: Discovery of Fusion
If you have either Paganism, Organized Religion, Theocracy, Pacifism as a civic the people might ask for Free Religion
Consequence:
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Late Modern Age
:
Racial Cleansing:
Requires: Fascism
Obsolete With: Mass Media
Definition: If things are going poorly for your empire the government might need a scapegoat to blame for the trouble.
Consequence:
- 5 population
- 2 to all diplomatic relations
+ 20 National Stability
- 5 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment#_note-1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism
Science Boom
Requires: Radio
Definition: Your population might demand that your science bar is permanently raised by 10%
Consequnces:
Science permanently raised by 10%
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Propaganda:
Requires: Discovery of Fascism
Your population might need to be manipulated by propaganda
Consequence:
- 1000 Gold
+ 250 Hammers
+ 10 National Stability
- 5 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccarthyism
Client-War:
Post-Modernism
Legal Malcontent:
Requires: Discovery of Fusion and Barbarism, Vassalage, Bureaucracy or Nationhood civic.
Definition:
If you have Barbarism, Vassalage, Bureaucracy or Nationhood as a civic the people might ask you to change to Free Speech.
Consequence:
If you have Barbarism, Vassalage, Bureaucracy or Nationhood as a civic the people might ask you to change to Free Speech.
Modern Economical Malcontent:
Requires: Discovery of Ecology
If you have either Decentralization, Mercantilism, Free Market or State Property the majority will demand Environmentalism.
Consequence:
You change to Environmentalism civic
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Modern Cultural War:
Requires: Discovery of Mass Media
If another civilization has different civics than you, your population might demand that you stop all trade routes with the civilization.
Consequence:
Embargo with particular civilization
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Charity Event:
Requires: Discovery of Fusion
Definition:
If your population feels that the poor in your country are too poor they will be likely to request a governmental charity project to help them.
Consequence:
+ 50 Hammers
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
Aid:
Requires: Discovery of Fusion
Definition:
Your population might want you to help rebuild a Collapsed Regime by giving them financial aid.
Consequence:
- 1000 Gold
+ 1000 Gold to particular civilization
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
XXXThe Fall of Civilizations Due To Financial ImplicationsXXX:
Culture is not the only catalyst for a civilization to fall or become a victim of revolution. In many cases having a negative cash flow will force the empire to fall.
Interdependence:
Requires: Discovery of Currency
A new value is added or subtracted from your gold per turn.
The value is defined by 10% of the income (interdependence not included) of neighbors and civilization that you have open borders with.
If you have free market then all civilizations with free market are included.
If you have Mercantilism there is no Interdependence.
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdependence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_depression
Note:
This will add a lot of depth to the game where other civilizations influence you. So if another empire that you have close relations with - falls it will affect you. This also adds a global market in late game where a great depression is possible to emulate.
Economy Burst:
Requires: Discovery of Banking.
Every turn your income is recorded.
If you earn more than 200% of what you did 10 turns ago your economy will burst.
If your economy bursts your income is reduced by 50% for 7 turns.
Your economy will not burst again for 40 turns.
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation_(economics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Crash
Note:
Fallen Civilizations:
I think it would be interesting if some civilization became collapsed regimes for a number of turns. Civilizations are not always solid industrial contries, and for an empire to truly fall it should be able to become a collapsed regime:
Collapsed Regime:
Technology Required: Code of Laws
Things Required To Become A Collapsed Regime:
A Ruinous Revolution
Diplomacy: Capitulation
Financial Collapse: Science Bar + Culture Bar = 40% and still losing money
Consequences of Being a Collapsed Regime:
- 40% Production
- 30% Science
+ 20 % chance of generating Great People
- 10% maintenance in all cities
All workers disbanded; No further workers can be produced
You will stop being a collapsed Regime when you have a science rate at 70%
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ght. I will edit it at a later point of time.
The way I potentially see Sid Meiers Civilization IV Revolution is a mod that emulates the rise and fall of empires and does not only give a more dynamic and fun game, but also gives a more true illustration of history. I have composed a list of potential features that all on some level contribute to this vision:
XXXREPLIESXXX
Reply to JDog:
New version 0.7w post to FP.
The game is now much more balanced, and the feature where you can see what elements cause the potential fall of your empire is very useful. Good work!
Many factors (both positive and negative) had their strength increased, so revolutions will happen more quickly when situation is bad, die out when you improve it.
That does sound great and very realistic, and it does work very well I just played a game where revolutions worked perfectly.
I hadn't thought of matching civics for peaceful revolutions ... currently the revolutionaries have all their civics set to the lowest, and they have to revolt to change them. But for peaceful revolutions, matching civics is a good idea.
Great! I am glad to see that I can help.
How you all feel about permanent alliances? I often don't play with them on, and I think Vassal States are more interesting ... another thing that could be done is to have peaceful revolutionaries you let go spawn on your team. The difficulty is, for this to seem realistic, there would have to be a mechanism for them to eventually break free. I guess I'd be inclined to use capitulated and normal Vassals instead, and not have to reinvent the wheel ... how does that sound?
I agree the permanent alliances features was not the best idea from me. In this post I suggest a different, more refined, look on different types of revolutions.
Yeah, the little one square islands of territory bother me too ... anyone know of a mod that takes care of this already? They can happen in the normal game too.
In my last game borders worked very well: Did you change it yourself?
Your proposal of 5 turns of Anarchy is interesting, although some things would have to be tweaked in the current revolution system ... even after the revolting cities are quieted because they get their way in changing the leader, 5 turns of anarchy would cause a new round of revolting without some changes (after the first turn, each turn of anarchy causes a big boost in rev indices). But it does provide a punishment without you totally losing control.
Currently I am playing without the leader change option, but later in this post I do suggest a reformation of bureaucracy demand from your population, which would cause 3 turns of anarchy.
In there
Yeah I often post features that are already implanted next to potential features. This is to create a larger perspective on the entire game, so it is easier to see if a feature does not "fit".
Certainly could be done ... but is it realistic? Maybe I have this liberal/1984 view that the state has to 'convince' people they want to go to war. Having political relations cause the populace to ask for war is a little strange to me ...
There have often been conflicts between nations where predigest emotions and racism were catalysts to a national war. The government often reflects society, and if society is a bunch of racist *******s, then the government is likely to declare war on those grounds.
One thing that totally could be done, is to religious leaders ask you to free your state religions holy city from heathens! I can see it now, the great Buddhist Crusades But seriously, I think that would be awesome ...
Seen you have already added this. It works very well.
My excuse for not putting that in was the human player should just mop them up ... but you're right, little civs should be able to assimilate with the human player too. It'll be in the next version.
Great! I would like if you posted what exact factors cause a civilization to assimilate. Maybe it should happen a little bit more frequent?
Your financial state is already an important part of this mod, if your science and culture sliders are really low, and you don't have or aren't making much money, lookout! The sky will fall pretty quick! I don't intend to rework the economic system in the near future though ... a lot of work in the depths of the SDK.
Yeah it is in the game, but it could work more realistically without getting too complex. I remain stubborn and I have once again - in this post - written how the financial system of the game could be improved. The most important financial elements are interdependence and burst of economy and I have tried to find a way they could be implanted in a very simple fashion so it should not be too difficult to add to the game. What one must see is that these two financial elements have been the cause of many wars and the reason why some once grand civilizations have fallen. I think these features would vastly improve the game.
The buyoff option partially does this internally
Yes and it works very well. I think the citizen demands are fine the way they are. I have however written more, but it is more or less meant as inspiration. I think there are other things, which are at the current moment much more important to think about than the desire of your population.
Thanks for the input, I love when people post ideas ... if it's something I've thought about, it lets me know I'm on the right track, and if it's new, then the pool of ideas to pull from just got bigger! I'm glad you're enjoying playing and thinking about this as much as I am.
Like ideas? Well then get ready to reach Nirvana since I have posted a lot of new ideas
XXXBUGSXXX:
One City Revolution:
When I play I often see these 1 city revolutions, which does seem a bit like an insignificant revolution, which would not make a lot of sense since Sid Meier's Civilization focuses on larger-scale events and macromagement. Personally I think it should be much more likely that 3 or more cities took part of a revolution and very unlikely that a single city claimed independence.
No peaceful revolutions:
I have only seen violent revolutions occur to my computer opponent. Do peaceful revolutions even happen to the computer? It could just be my game, which just from random reasons did not have many computer peaceful revolutions.
No Manual:
As the game becomes more complex it would be nice to have a manual, which illustrates all the features and how they work. It would also be nice with some advice on strategy on how to avoid revolutions and such. I would like to help here if you want.
No Civelopedia:
The new features should be added here, though this could wait.
XXXFEATURESXXX:
Here I suggest a lot of new features some of them already implanted in the game. Some should be fairly easy to add to the game while others could be a tedious nightmare. I tried to simplify the method of how the feature could work in the game in order to stay true to the streamlined game and not to give JDog too much of a headache.
Some ideas have a historical reference. It is not always the best historical reference that I have picked, but it is meant as a quick guide to people who want to read more about the feature from a more profound perspective.
New Features Priority List:
Of the features I have suggested I have created a list of which features I think would be the most valuable/important to add. All of these features are explained in detail later in the document:
1# Federations: - Very Important To Add
We have empires that split, but not many that merge. I also think having federations form would reflect history very well since there has always been some superpowers that have had a lot of influence.
Interdependence:
When a nation falls it often drags down its allies, this would not only be historically correct, but it will also force the player to choose his or her allies more carefully.
Economy Burst:
A sudden burst of ones economy has often occurred thru out history and is often the reason why a nation falls.
Collapsed Regime:
In order to create more dynamic I think some empires so completely fall. So that not all empires are happy industrial nations - some of them could be developing countries.
More Complex Revolution Type:
This would add more depth to the game.
Societys Desire: Least Important To Add
This would be very very time consuming, but I have tried to make a realistic model to how it should work since it is already somewhat implanted in the game. Another problem with this is that it could change the game too much and alienate the player.
Civilization Split:
What leads to Revolution:
JDog I would like if you made a reply where you wrote what factors increase the [revolution index] (and by how much), so they can be discussed and new overlooked factors might be added.
Types of Revolutions:
It is important that there are different types of revolutions more than just peaceful or not since it not only creates a more dynamical game it also emulates history in a more correct fashion. I have divided revolutions into four groups where one is less pleasant than the other:
Amicable Revolution:
Definition:
New civilization is a vassal state of previous owner.
New civilization shares religion of previous owner.
New civilization shares civics of previous owner.
New civilization is very friendly towards previous owner
The revolution costs no gold from previous owner.
Revolution Requires:
Discovery of Feudalism
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland
Note:
Pacifistic Revolution:
Definition:
New civilization has open borders with previous owner.
New civilization shares religion of previous owner.
New civilization does not share civics of previous owner.
New civilization is friendly towards previous owner
The revolution costs little gold from previous owner.
Revolution Requires:
None
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba#Independence
Note:
Hostile Revolution:
Definition:
New civilization is at war with previous owner.
New civilization does not share religion of previous owner.
New civilization has reversed civics of previous owner.
New civilization is hostile towards previous owner.
The revolution costs some gold from previous owner.
Revolution Requires: None
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_independence
Note:
Ruinous Revolution:
Definition:
Two new civilizations are spawned from previous owner.
New civilizations are at war with previous owner.
New civilizations do not share religion of previous owner.
New civilizations have reversed civics of previous owner.
New civilizations are very hostile towards previous owner
Both new civilizations and previous owner become Collapsed Regimes (explained later)
The revolution costs much gold from previous owner.
Revolution Requires:
The discovery of Code of Laws (In order for law and order to break down it needs to exist)
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_reich
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Rwanda
Note:
Civilization Merger:
As civilizations have a tendency to split thou out history they also have a tendency to merge. There are two methods where a civilization can merge:
Assimilation:
Already working fine, JDog, though I would like if you would post a detailed summary of what specifically causes assimilation.
Federation:
Definition:
Nations can sometimes join each others in a Federation. This is natural, historically correct and would increase the dynamic of the game. I would love to see a huge superpower be formed and suddenly becoming very influential. This would also create a more natural outlook on the game where some civilizations are superpowers and some are just nations.
Consequence:
Three or more Civilizations with similar civics and open borders who are on the same continent might form a federation.
The leader of the largest civilization, who merges, becomes the leader of the new civilization. The new civilization also has the color of his previous civilization (so what really happens is that one civilization gains control of the others and changes its name)
When a Federation falls it becomes the civilizations that formed the federation.
The new civilization becomes one of the following civilizations:
United States of America:
Special Traits:
25% more production in all cities
3+ relations with all civilizations who are not unions
3+ added to [revolution index] each turn in all cities
10 free units when union formed
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_states_of_america
Note:
United States of Europe:
Special Traits:
25% more commence in all cities
2+ relations with all civilizations who are not unions
1+ added to [revolution index] each turn in all cities
5 free units when union formed
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_states_of_europe
Note:
Soviet Union
Special Traits:
25% less maintenance cost
2+ relations with all civilizations who are not unions
4+ added to [revolution index] each turn in all cities
20 free units when union formed
Historical Reference:
Note:
Kalmar Union:
Special Trait:
25% higher chance of generating great people
3+ relations with all civilizations who are not unions
4+ added to [revolution index] each turn
15 free units when union formed
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmar_union
Note:
Union of Myanmar
Special Trait:
25% more culture in all cities
3+ relations with all civilizations who are not unions
1+ added to [revolution index] each turn
0 free units when union formed
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar
Note:
Societys Desire:
!!!This feature has not been done edited very well and should only be seen as inspiration!!!
Through out history control has very often had a formal leader who represented the nation, however there has always been some forces behind the leader who stood as a catalyst to many of his or her decisions. If the leader listens to the predilections of society the nation will become more stabile, however if the leader refuses then a civil war is not only more likely to occur, but also more likely to become violent.
It is also important to remember that the forces of the civilizations desire changes though out time, and thus I have divided them into 7 groups. Do note that the requests given to the leader might not be limited to a certain age; for example some of the requests of the tribal age may be found in the classical era and so forth:
Tribal Age
Decisions lead by Shamans and Social Darwinism
Classical Era
Decisions lead by Social Darwinism and Dynasties
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greece
Medieval Age
Decisions lead by Dynasties and The Church
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_ages
Early Modern Age:
Decisions Made by The Church and The Wealthy
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_revolution
Modern Age:
The Wealthy and Nationalism
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war_1
Late Modern Age:
Decisions lead by Nationalism and The Majority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war_2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_war
Post-Modern Age
Decisions lead by The Majority and The Church
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_civilizations
(The post-modern age represents today, and even though one would assume that religion has little influence I would beg to differ The entire administration of the worlds only super power is very Christian and Holy War has been declared)
Tribal Age Desires:
Blood Conflict:
Obsolete with: Discovery of Theology
Description:
Your tribe views a different tribe/civilization as different and less superior and feels that they can show dominance by declaring war.
Consequence:
Contacted civilization, which is less powerful than you, picked at random before popup. You declare war with that civilization.
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Mass Sacrifice:
Obsolete With: Discovery of Monotheism
Description:
Your tribe favors a large sacrifice to their gods:
Consequence:
1 Population is eliminated from random city with more than 1 population.
+ 10 Culture
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Classical Era:
Monument:
Requires: Discovery of Construction
Obsolete with: Representation or Universal Suffrage civic
Definition: In order to keep your god-like image you must create a monument which shows your divine powers.
Consequence:
- 10 hammers
+ 10 Culture
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Reformation of Bureaucracy:
Requires: Discovery of Code of Laws
Definition: Your civilization demands changes within your empires leadership and structure.
Consequence:
3 Turn Anarchy
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Redemption of Slaves:
Requires: Slavery civic
Definition: A group of slaves demand independence and would cause riot and instability if they do not have their way!
Consequence:
1 Worker unit disbanded
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
Medieval Age:
Religious War:
Requires: Discovery of Divine Right
Obsolete With: Discovery of Nationalism
Definition:
If another civilization has a different religion than you the priests will advice you to destroy those barbaric heathens!
Consequence:
Contacted civilization, which has a different religion than you, picked at random before popup. You declare war with that civilization.
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
+ 1 free unit
Historical Reference:
Crusade:
Requires: Discovery of Theology
Obsolete with: Free Religion civic
Definition:
If holy city is located within the borders of another civilization who has a different religion than you then your priests will advice you to declare war so you can retrieve the holy city.
Consequence:
Contacted civilization, which has a different religion than you and your religions holy city, picked at random before popup. You declare war with that civilization.
+ 1 free unit
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade
Spreading The Word of God:
Requires Discovery of Priesthood:
Definition:
Your priests will advice you to spread the word of the true God.
Consequence:
- 10 gold
1 Free Missionary
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
Religious Revolution:
Requires: Discovery of Priesthood
Obsolete with: Discovery of Liberalism
Definition:
Your priests are being overthrown and your population has been interested in a different religion and seeks to convert.
Consequence:
Your civilization converts to a different more popular religion.
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
Early Modern Age:
Luxury:
Requires: Discovery of Banking
Definition:
The wealthy might demand that your Culture bar is permanently raised by 10%
Consequence:
Culture bar permanently raised by 10%
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
Early Economical Malcontent:
Requires: Discovery of Economics
Obsolete with: Discovery of Ecology
Definition:
The wealthy seeks a more flexible system of trade.
Consequence:
If you have Decentralization or Mercantilism the wealthy will demand Free Market.
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
Governmental Malcontent:
Requires: Discovery of Constitution and Hereditary Rule civic
Definition:
The people - united with the wealthy seek to overthrow the king!
Consequence:
If you have Hereditary Rule as a civic the people might ask you to change to Representation or Universal Suffrage.
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
- 10 Culture
Modern Age:
Labores Malcontent:
Requires: Discovery of Liberalism
Definition: As other people than the royal has money a ideas of liberalism to the people start to unravel.
Consequence:
If you have Tribalism, Slavery, Serfdom, Caste System as a civic the people will ask you to change to Emancipation.
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Cultural War:
Requires: Nationalism
Obsolete With: Discovery of Fusion
Definition:
If another civilization has different civics than you your people might demand war.
Consequence:
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War
Religious Malcontent:
Requires: Industrialism
Obsolete With: Discovery of Fusion
If you have either Paganism, Organized Religion, Theocracy, Pacifism as a civic the people might ask for Free Religion
Consequence:
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Late Modern Age
:
Racial Cleansing:
Requires: Fascism
Obsolete With: Mass Media
Definition: If things are going poorly for your empire the government might need a scapegoat to blame for the trouble.
Consequence:
- 5 population
- 2 to all diplomatic relations
+ 20 National Stability
- 5 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japanese_sentiment#_note-1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism
Science Boom
Requires: Radio
Definition: Your population might demand that your science bar is permanently raised by 10%
Consequnces:
Science permanently raised by 10%
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Propaganda:
Requires: Discovery of Fascism
Your population might need to be manipulated by propaganda
Consequence:
- 1000 Gold
+ 250 Hammers
+ 10 National Stability
- 5 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccarthyism
Client-War:
Post-Modernism
Legal Malcontent:
Requires: Discovery of Fusion and Barbarism, Vassalage, Bureaucracy or Nationhood civic.
Definition:
If you have Barbarism, Vassalage, Bureaucracy or Nationhood as a civic the people might ask you to change to Free Speech.
Consequence:
If you have Barbarism, Vassalage, Bureaucracy or Nationhood as a civic the people might ask you to change to Free Speech.
Modern Economical Malcontent:
Requires: Discovery of Ecology
If you have either Decentralization, Mercantilism, Free Market or State Property the majority will demand Environmentalism.
Consequence:
You change to Environmentalism civic
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Modern Cultural War:
Requires: Discovery of Mass Media
If another civilization has different civics than you, your population might demand that you stop all trade routes with the civilization.
Consequence:
Embargo with particular civilization
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Charity Event:
Requires: Discovery of Fusion
Definition:
If your population feels that the poor in your country are too poor they will be likely to request a governmental charity project to help them.
Consequence:
+ 50 Hammers
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
Historical Reference:
Aid:
Requires: Discovery of Fusion
Definition:
Your population might want you to help rebuild a Collapsed Regime by giving them financial aid.
Consequence:
- 1000 Gold
+ 1000 Gold to particular civilization
+ 10 National Stability
+ 10 Peaceful Revolution
XXXThe Fall of Civilizations Due To Financial ImplicationsXXX:
Culture is not the only catalyst for a civilization to fall or become a victim of revolution. In many cases having a negative cash flow will force the empire to fall.
Interdependence:
Requires: Discovery of Currency
A new value is added or subtracted from your gold per turn.
The value is defined by 10% of the income (interdependence not included) of neighbors and civilization that you have open borders with.
If you have free market then all civilizations with free market are included.
If you have Mercantilism there is no Interdependence.
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdependence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_depression
Note:
This will add a lot of depth to the game where other civilizations influence you. So if another empire that you have close relations with - falls it will affect you. This also adds a global market in late game where a great depression is possible to emulate.
Economy Burst:
Requires: Discovery of Banking.
Every turn your income is recorded.
If you earn more than 200% of what you did 10 turns ago your economy will burst.
If your economy bursts your income is reduced by 50% for 7 turns.
Your economy will not burst again for 40 turns.
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation_(economics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Crash
Note:
Fallen Civilizations:
I think it would be interesting if some civilization became collapsed regimes for a number of turns. Civilizations are not always solid industrial contries, and for an empire to truly fall it should be able to become a collapsed regime:
Collapsed Regime:
Technology Required: Code of Laws
Things Required To Become A Collapsed Regime:
A Ruinous Revolution
Diplomacy: Capitulation
Financial Collapse: Science Bar + Culture Bar = 40% and still losing money
Consequences of Being a Collapsed Regime:
- 40% Production
- 30% Science
+ 20 % chance of generating Great People
- 10% maintenance in all cities
All workers disbanded; No further workers can be produced
You will stop being a collapsed Regime when you have a science rate at 70%
Historical Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ght. I will edit it at a later point of time.
jdog5000
Revolutionary
I do not know what goes into a pre-made map, but I have one idea as to why it might have crashed. I imagine the map and the DLL have to have the same max number of civilizations, and so if you're using the 24 civ dll a 24 civ map would work but an 18 civ map might not. Is that the case here?Hell Hawk said:
Others with more experience with maps, please chime in ...
jdog5000
Revolutionary
Announcing Amravolution 
Ferrum Rex
Warlord
- Joined
- May 23, 2006
- Messages
- 122
hey greatmod man,i have a very intresting gme going on as Japan right now. Revolutions really show their face. I had adecent early age empire when monte came out of barbarians to the north,pulling a George Bush(i was afraid he'd attack me first in other words;or maybe i just wanted his bronze) i amassed forces and took him down. While my economy was ever worsening and revolutions constantly plagued my empire(damn pyramids,they all wanted to vote,wouldnt accept by divine heritage as a king),Cyrus formed from barbarians appeared to the north,and immediatly decaled war on me!
Ket
Composite Of A Composite
A few comments to the last few posters...
Hell Hawk: Once you make a change to the .DLL to increase the size of the max players, maps have to be specialy modified that have under the number of players defined. In my thread I discuss this as I offer some good maps with the mod, it created a massive problem early on till we figured out what to do. Essentialy the maps with less than 24 players have defines for 18 players even if some are not used. So to get it to properly load in a 24 or 42 or whatever mod you need to create defines for the empty civs.
Quijote: Wow, nice write up... One thing though unless this is going to be offered as a "Full Featured" mod, I dont sugest that those mods get merged in, leave it to the mod pack folks to merge those in.
Speaking of mod comps, I spoke to Jdog5000 about the issues with creating new Civics so hopefully that will get some looking into. (for revolutions)
Barbarian Civ's will be added to both of my mods, and I do so want to add revolutions in.
49 Civ's?
Ummm thats insane the game goes unstable after 24.... Diplomacy screen is worthless after 24... Other than that thats a nice comp!!!!
Hell Hawk: Once you make a change to the .DLL to increase the size of the max players, maps have to be specialy modified that have under the number of players defined. In my thread I discuss this as I offer some good maps with the mod, it created a massive problem early on till we figured out what to do. Essentialy the maps with less than 24 players have defines for 18 players even if some are not used. So to get it to properly load in a 24 or 42 or whatever mod you need to create defines for the empty civs.
Quijote: Wow, nice write up... One thing though unless this is going to be offered as a "Full Featured" mod, I dont sugest that those mods get merged in, leave it to the mod pack folks to merge those in.
Speaking of mod comps, I spoke to Jdog5000 about the issues with creating new Civics so hopefully that will get some looking into. (for revolutions)
Barbarian Civ's will be added to both of my mods, and I do so want to add revolutions in.
49 Civ's?
Ummm thats insane the game goes unstable after 24.... Diplomacy screen is worthless after 24... Other than that thats a nice comp!!!!
Ferrum Rex
Warlord
- Joined
- May 23, 2006
- Messages
- 122
Ket said:
Conquer and Destroy
One thing though unless this is going to be offered as a "Full Featured" mod, I dont sugest that those mods get merged in, leave it to the mod pack folks to merge those in.
True, though some of these might apply directly to the game's purpose/philosophy and if some of these will simply - from a universal perspective - improve the game, then by all means it would logical to add them. I also think some of these fit very well with the theme of the Sid Meier's Civilization IV Revolution.
I do understand where you are coming from though; the main purpose of Sid Meier's Civilization IV Revolution should not be deluded by adding random content. Simply: Quality, not Quantity. And I also do think it would be hard to find a MOD to merge Sid Meier's Civilization IV Revolution with without anyone getting upset because they feel it ruins the game. But if there is a MOD-Component that just simply improves the game, then should it not be added?
Obviously if a MOD-Component is added there should be a feature in the .ini file which could turn the component off.
True, though some of these might apply directly to the game's purpose/philosophy and if some of these will simply - from a universal perspective - improve the game, then by all means it would logical to add them. I also think some of these fit very well with the theme of the Sid Meier's Civilization IV Revolution.
I do understand where you are coming from though; the main purpose of Sid Meier's Civilization IV Revolution should not be deluded by adding random content. Simply: Quality, not Quantity. And I also do think it would be hard to find a MOD to merge Sid Meier's Civilization IV Revolution with without anyone getting upset because they feel it ruins the game. But if there is a MOD-Component that just simply improves the game, then should it not be added?
Obviously if a MOD-Component is added there should be a feature in the .ini file which could turn the component off.
Ket
Composite Of A Composite
Obviously if a MOD-Component is added there should be a feature in the .ini file which could turn the component off.
Better yet, in the options screen....
Better yet, in the options screen....
It would certainly be wise to have a Sid Meier's Civilization IV Revolution without any major bugs before adding new content. Right now though it will still be nice to reach a consensus to which future features should be added once there is a stable version of the MOD - though in all honesty I would view the current version as very stable.
suspendinlight
Prince
I agree, this mod should not start adding in a bunch of other mods. I don't like most of the large modpacks because I don't necessarily want all 100 new units, 30 new civics, and 15 new resources. I'd rather pick and choose the best ones. For this mod, only things specifically pertaining to the Revolution theme should be included. This might include minor civic changes or an inquisitor unit as mentioned before. Revolution changes hardly any (none?) of the XML files so any XML mods can be easily added. In fact, I am using several of the mods Quixote mentioned in addition to many of my own personal modifications alongside Revolution.Ket said:
this mod should not start adding in a bunch of other mods.
Suspendinlight it is not clear if are you basing your opinion on principles or the fear of the MOD-components being added would harm the gaming experience for you. Would you care to elaborate?
If we put principles aside for a moment and look at this from a completely rational perspective then:
Adding a MOD-component would be a good decision if:
1# The MOD-component fits together with the theme and structure of Sid Meier's Civilization IV and Sid Meier's Civilization IV Revolutions.
2# The majority of everyone involved in this project agrees that the MOD-component does not harm the game in any way.
3# The majority of everyone involved in this project agrees that the MOD-component added improves the game to a noticeable extent.
4# The MOD-component is at a finished state and thus bug and error free.
5# When the MOD-component is merged with Sid Meier’s Civilization Revolutions it remains bug and error free.
6# The task of adding the MOD-component is not tedious or too time consuming compared to the value of the MOD-component.
I don't like most of the large modpacks because I don't necessarily want all 100 new units, 30 new civics, and 15 new resources. I'd rather pick and choose the best ones.
I absolutely agree. As I said before: Quality, not Quantity. And this philosophy is still relevant when discussing new improvements to Sid Meier’s Civilization Revolution. But if/when a new MOD-component is added to Sid Meier's Civilization IV Revolutions then you would still have the ability to tweak it and add new content – but you already know this.
Revolution changes hardly any (none?) of the XML files so any XML mods can be easily added.
However would it not be nice if whatever needs to be added was already there? The question is: Is it possible to find a consensus to what MOD-components should be added?
In fact, I am using several of the mods Quixote mentioned in addition to many of my own personal modifications alongside Revolution.
Just out of curiosity, what MODs are you using and what adjustments have you made Sid Meier’s Civilization IV Revolutions. You might just inspire me
I hope you and I (and a lot of others) will end up in unison on the subject of MOD-components since we both clearly have a large interest in seeing this mood flourish. I do however think there are more important things - than MOD-components - to add in the game: Potential civic changes, federations, inquisitor unit, more complex assimilation and so forth.
Suspendinlight it is not clear if are you basing your opinion on principles or the fear of the MOD-components being added would harm the gaming experience for you. Would you care to elaborate?
If we put principles aside for a moment and look at this from a completely rational perspective then:
Adding a MOD-component would be a good decision if:
1# The MOD-component fits together with the theme and structure of Sid Meier's Civilization IV and Sid Meier's Civilization IV Revolutions.
2# The majority of everyone involved in this project agrees that the MOD-component does not harm the game in any way.
3# The majority of everyone involved in this project agrees that the MOD-component added improves the game to a noticeable extent.
4# The MOD-component is at a finished state and thus bug and error free.
5# When the MOD-component is merged with Sid Meier’s Civilization Revolutions it remains bug and error free.
6# The task of adding the MOD-component is not tedious or too time consuming compared to the value of the MOD-component.
I don't like most of the large modpacks because I don't necessarily want all 100 new units, 30 new civics, and 15 new resources. I'd rather pick and choose the best ones.
I absolutely agree. As I said before: Quality, not Quantity. And this philosophy is still relevant when discussing new improvements to Sid Meier’s Civilization Revolution. But if/when a new MOD-component is added to Sid Meier's Civilization IV Revolutions then you would still have the ability to tweak it and add new content – but you already know this.
Revolution changes hardly any (none?) of the XML files so any XML mods can be easily added.
However would it not be nice if whatever needs to be added was already there? The question is: Is it possible to find a consensus to what MOD-components should be added?
In fact, I am using several of the mods Quixote mentioned in addition to many of my own personal modifications alongside Revolution.
Just out of curiosity, what MODs are you using and what adjustments have you made Sid Meier’s Civilization IV Revolutions. You might just inspire me
I hope you and I (and a lot of others) will end up in unison on the subject of MOD-components since we both clearly have a large interest in seeing this mood flourish. I do however think there are more important things - than MOD-components - to add in the game: Potential civic changes, federations, inquisitor unit, more complex assimilation and so forth.
