RFC Classical World

[CrossRFC]

Yes, the balance in RFCCW is quite amazing. I think the historical civilizations themselves fit very well in the RFC model. We only have to cheat for a select few civs, and for the rest, the stability model and new civ spawns are generally good at replicating actual historical conditions.

Trajan's column could definitely be a stability wonder. It's a symbol of imperialism and the maximum size of the Roman empire. Its construction symbolizes the civ's ability to maintain and grow their own empire. However, I wouldn't set the bonus to preventing instability from losing cities to barbs, instead focusing on all the other aspects of instability such as overextension.

In my opinion, the catalyst for the West Roman AI's collapse should be a sudden loss of cities to barbs, during the large barbarian incursions that occur in the 400+ ADs. One could argue West Rome "collapsed" a few decades before its final fall in 476 AD.

The pressure on Gaul/Northern Italy does a fair job, as far as I've seen. Haven't played that late-game much. Barbarian pressure will be something we'll all look at once we get there.

Edit: about the Parthians: yes, they are building a lot of workers. But I saw a lot of unimproved tiles in Parthian lands that must have been dragging them down. Their military generally consists of 2 marksmen/city, maybe a catapult, but very little to no Horse Archer UUs.

The general pattern I've noticed is little military production early-on, but large stacks in the late game. This has probably been fixed with the adjustment to techs/bonuses/yields in the latest revisions though. Whatever you did to make the Successors' successfully warlike and militarily productive probably needs to happen to the Parthians.

 

[srpt]

on my last Byzantine start the Romans left 17 workers in my half of the empire at the flip. that is from starting with none roughly 70 turns ago and having nearly all their land already improved. this needs to be fixed, its a huge waste of production for nothing.

also I think Han conquerors for south China when they get a GG would help.

 

[CrossRFC]

Weird bug: 220 AD start, currently 239 AD. I just saw 3 10 str Arab Ghazi in the desert of Arabia. They're spawning very early for some reason.

 

[2phunkey4u]

Nan Yue starts in without techs in 80 BC and they have a "0/3" in the place of their stability indicator.

 

[Sitalkas]

@crossphazer

yep the rosetta stone indeed wasnt something special, I even dont consider it as a wonder, but I guess it requires the same craftsmanship as the Iron Pillar to be created, so it can be added to help the Ptolemaic kingdom

about Petra, I used this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonders_of_the_World) which says that it is considered one.. just Imagine the skill required and the work hours to create something like this

Hellenism for circus maximus, just to assure that it will be built in the west and not in in the Middle east / India / China

Patheon will be similar to the shrines, just without the gold per city bonus

IMHO, some more wonders should be added because now, there are very few options to build (given that research bar stays low due to financial problems in most civs thus new technologies require more time to be researched) that many civs spam units and can really change the balance eg. OP celts, vietnam and in my previous game the Pandyans

 

[CrossRFC]

But the Rosetta Stone is just an example of the Ptolemaic Obelisk UB...it's not even a particularly impressive example of Ptolemaic obelisk craftsmanship.

Also, the Antigonids can control up to 10 wonders by end of their UHV limit if you tech well...that's a lot of wonders.

Spoiler :

Great Lighthouse, Great Library, Colossus, Gardens of Babylon, Temple of Artemis, Parthenon, Iron Pillar, Archimedes' Workshop, Pyramids, Ishtar Gate.

The Romans also get 3 new wonders with Engineering (Colosseum, Theodosian Walls, Trajan's Column), which is also a lot of wonders.

I'm not sure if they're necessary right now, since it looks like the focus is balance, and many of these proposed wonders' symbolic value are encapsulated by other wonders i.e. Pantheon -> Parthenon/Temple of Artemis, Circus Maximus -> Colosseum.

Maybe some of these will get thrown in later, and it would fit. It's up to how the mod goes.

 

[merijn_v1]

How about making Petra an "improvement wonder"?

I can't be pillaged and it give a big amount of (10 or something)

@ Sitalkas
The art isn't a problem. There are many mods which already have Petra as a wonder.

 

[Tigranes]

I guess AI has hardcoded formula for workers, say 3 Workers per city, no matter what.

In general I am astonished with how sophisticated the mod became! Very impressive, sprt!

Few things, however, still reminding me of the old unresolved problems. Take Slavery mechanics, for example. I don't see AI using it at all. They don't sell their slaves, many civs don't adopt Slavery civic, I don't capture cities with settled slaves, etc...

By the way, how do you decide that 27 gold is the price for slave (in general there are modifiers, but I see that average price). At least 50 gold would make it worth to sell them, when short on cash.

The reason I posted a link for that map is that we have places like Portugal without any Roman culture. How about every Roman city late in game represent a capital of the province? Also there were only 30 legions -- not that many --so technically we can place them at their historical locations with their names.

Hills are completely "unimprovable" right now -- I understand your reasoning, but how realistic is that? Or how would you explain that one cannot build a cottage next to river? People would build them all the time!

 

[Sitalkas]

The art isn't a problem. There are many mods which already have Petra as a wonder.

I was saying about the people who built it, not the programmers who will put it in the mod

 

[srpt]

re AI slaves, they may be using them all to rush buildings. the rushing and selling are just scaled-down versions of the great merchant and great engineer abilities and the slave unit has the UNIT_AI tags for them so since you don't see AI slaves running around they must be using them. the base value fro selling them is set in the xml for the unit and the game calculates the rest as it would for a merchant. I've always thought the amounts didn't vary enough from city to city. in SoI my merchants always seemed to pay the same no matter how far I travelled. I plan to tinker wit it eventually, as well as how the AI uses slaves. overall, slaves are so much fun for the human and using barbs as a resource for the UHV building races for wonders, palaces etc is so exiting and suspenseful that I'm really pleased with the feature. was it your idea? can't remember, but thanks if it was.

I'm ok with some "useless wilderness" like hills and dense forest. I think it adds to the recreation of ancient times. I specifically made specialists more flexible and diverse to balance that. you should be able to build cottages on a river. I may have messed something up when I made them grow twice as fast with fresh water. I will check it out tonight.

the 2 later maps with pre-placed Roman empires are a function of how much land can the AI carry for requisite amount of time before running into stability trouble. it seems like their main problem is losing cities to barbs, which is probably only happening because they are building almost nothing but workers to build roads out into the wilderness. once that process is more under control then the maps can be developed further.

Petra seems like it should be included one way or another. as a city it would fit as long as it shared about 1/3 of its tiles with Jerusalem, which is probably fine for a small city.

and the Iron Pillar is supposed to require Hinduism

edit: I can guess what is causing the Nan Yue no techs or Stability problem

 

[DC123456789]

I think you can build windmills on hills- or was that removed some time ago?

 

[CrossRFC]

I think that, due to the penalties now being imposed on cottage placement, cottages should be allowed on hills. After all, a hill tile does not mean it is some barren, rocky, terrain, but more a series of gentle slopes, or some highlands. Establishment of towns in those areas is quite plausible.

 

[srpt]

if the graphics look ok then that might be fine. it would be good if they grew more slowly than flat grassland cottages.

I really want windmills to add health and ideally to able to be placed on top of farms without destroying them.

I know firaxis was looking for a food improvement for hills but windmills on hills are a bit silly. are they not almost always on falt terrain IRL?

pastures on hills with no resource are in theory just as plausible as farms on flat land without a resource.

edit: yes you can build cottages on a river. Tigranes must have missed the bit about no cottages on adjacent tiles or adjacent to a city

I don't think the cottage restrictions are that limiting, it just takes some planning. look at the picture here.

what I would like to do is make the cottages like little cities and have them grow fast or slow depending on the food from the tile.

 

[CrossRFC]

When I think windmills I think Dutch. They are not known for their hills.

Pastures on hills seems perfectly acceptable to me. You'd probably want to make a "no adjacent pastures" rule to avoid some ugly pasture spam.

 

[Sitalkas]

perhaps one silly question ..

is this the final version of the map?? will siberia be left as a dense forest? in the smaller map I liked settling Mongolia as the Tocharians or the Gokturks, which is impossible now due to the landscape



also, how can I change the old svn link on the folder to match the new one??

 

[Lansa]

My problems are solved. Download from the new svn source, now all works well.
Great work and ideas srt !!!

Some minor things i saw in my last games:

Indeed, Romans build to much workers and roads. One time i saw that the Romans built a road from northern Italy to the Baltics. Maybe they were looking for amber

The Kingdom of Axum starts with sand ships They get 3ships and 2 workboots middle of Africa.
(by 320bc map)

In the 80bc map the Colossus of Rhodes are not prebuild. The Colossus of Rhodes was destroyed by a earthquake in 226bc. So its okay. But it should not be allowed to rebuild the Colossus of Rhodes as Dacians

Maybe increase the Celtic settler UHV. Settle Anatolia is bad for gameplay and this area is already overcrowed . Instead, why not settle Hibernia(Ireland) ?

 

[Lansa]

at Sitalkas
Normal you right click "TortoiseSVN" > "relocate" and change the old url into the new one.
If there come a error message. (like me)
Delete the old folder and download new RFCCW and make a new tortoise svn checkout with the new url link.

 

[srpt]

if the Celts are easy I'd rather nerf them than make the goals harder

fixed the Axum desert ships and Colossus (it can't be built)

I've asked in the main forum about the worker building AI. in the meantime I'm limiting workers to 12/civ just for balance.

to get the new svn its best to start from scratch with a new checkout

the Byzantines are now flipping Roman units properly, including wokers

 

[Tigranes]

edit: yes you can build cottages on a river. Tigranes must have missed the bit about no cottages on adjacent tiles or adjacent to a city

This is with latest revision:

I suggest you make Workers as National Units limit 10, or one per city. This will solve AI road obsession problem. Perhaps they will start using Slaves in the country side now

 

[srpt]

you're adjacent to a city