RFC Classical World

[CrossRFC]

Large pictures of map of cities of the hellenistic world and thereafter. Names not in native language usually.

Spoiler :

You're welcome

 

[DC123456789]

Expanded city name map in Dacia, added city names in Noricum, Raetia, and much of Germania.

 

[DC123456789]

Cirta should be Punic Tzirta, Latin Cirta, and Byzantine Constantine.
Also, the Sabaens can't build the Funduq, their UB in the civilopedia. They just build normal fairground.

 

[CrossRFC]

Gauls still invading Spain. Romans conquerors seem to be weak as of late against everyone but the Ptolemids. Do Romans get conquerors against the Gauls?

edit: Need literature to get Heroic epic. Teching takes centuries...

 

[DC123456789]

Do Romans get conquerors against the Gauls?

I'm pretty sure no, but they really need it. In my experience, they usually manage to conquer more or less their historical empire in the east, but never, ever take Gaul, often even losing Massilia, which comes under the control of the Celts (not sure if it was taken by them or if it was taken by barbarians first).

Edit: Also, Gojoseon is consistently overwhelmed by barbarians and destroyed far too early. Either buff them, reduce the barbarian pressure, or both.

 

[srpt]

Guzu is still named "Qufu" at the game start

you mean the taoist/confucian holy city?

Liao-tung should begin as Azadal, seeing as they begin under the control of Gojoseon.

The Han should have Tarim and Goguryeo as border/historical provinces.

Seleukia to Seleukeia

the Sabaens can't build the Funduq

fixed

why were GP yields (when settled) nerfed?

they were all nerfed when I lowered laborers back to 1 hammer

Byzantines at 220AD dont flip any cities :/

I forgot to mention previously that the starting situation I faced was like : Rome alive but only controlling the Italian peninsula and the Sassanids strong and controlling Anatolia and Egypt

while on this game that the flip happened, Rome was up and strong and all their cities flipped to me

perhaps that was the problem, dunno ...

the Byzantines only flip Roman cities, that was a very unlucky start

Is there something about the Han that makes their resources seriously undervalued?

the Han were set to over-value foreign luxuries. this was to facilitate certain UHVs. I turned it off. it was set to x2 so it could be set lower if it needs to come back.

Expanded city name map in Dacia, added city names in Noricum, Raetia, and much of Germania.

Cirta should be Punic Tzirta, Latin Cirta, and Byzantine Constantine

added, thanks

edit: Need literature to get Heroic epic. Teching takes centuries...

for Parthia? you can bulb it with a great artist from a Zoroastrian temple

Gojoseon is consistently overwhelmed by barbarians and destroyed far too early. Either buff them, reduce the barbarian pressure, or both

gave them walls. I will play them and add more buffs

I will also add Roman conquerors for Gaul

also added unit art for the Germanic civs and took the Han and Tang flags from RFCA (thanks Black_whole). the Tang's color has been changed to red to match their flag

 

[DC123456789]

you mean the taoist/confucian holy city?

No, the one at present day Hangzhou. As of now it is named "City", I believe.

 

[Krulltak]

AI Yamato lacks a capital in the 550 AD start. The Religions screen also extends past the monitor.

 

[CrossRFC]

Pontic capital is "City". edit: this is because the city name map is broken. Fixing.

as Antigonids, Roman stack spawned in Babylon, rather than a coastal city.

Thrace should be unstable for Antigonids. I don't believe they ever held any territory there. As a trade-off, Mesopotamia should be a contested province, as Antigonos did actually hold the East at one point before Seleucus, who had fled to Ptolemy, took it back.

"Constantine" is actually "Constantina" in Latin. Fixed.

Gauls still taking over Spain.

edit: City name map broken due to missing commas. Only took me a minute thanks to the miracles of regex.
city name map: here
and city name manager: here

 

[Krulltak]

Kingdom of Wu, 220 AD start, the goal "be the first to discover the stirrup" is failed on the first turn.

 

[CrossRFC]

Good screenshot for the front page:

Rome and her Pontic allies assaulting the Armenian capital.

Spoiler :

edit: also changed/added city names to Colchis region (Georgia). See link in my previous post for city name map ods and py.

also: if AI Rome conquers cities in Mesopotamia, which it might, they immediately flip to indy because of the code that flips any cities in non-stable regions. The original purpose of the code was to prevent civs to hold far-off cities, but that kind of behaviour is very rare now, especially since most of the areas that once had strange garrisons (like the Celts in Cherson) are no longer viable due to barbarian pressure.

tech speeds/maintenance too slow imo. Got 3 techs in my Pontus game as of 1 AD.

If the Rome has conquerors against the Judeans, it doesn't show. I don't think they do?

Also, the increase in maintenance costs from Monarchy making this civic truly worthless, as your economy is generally pretty weak in RFCCW.

edit: I am paying 17 in merc maintenance cost, despite that fact that I only have 1 merc hired, of value 5 GPT.

Maybe every half a century until 100 or 150 AD, Rome should get a free settler, to populate some of the dead areas of the map that are never settled from 320 BC.

40 AD Rome collapsed to Italy. The limit of Roman Rebellions means that Roman catastrophically fails when it runs out of them. I suggest that AI Rome be given a free pass on stability checks until the Byzantines once it reaches its revolt limit.

Western Rome respawning in the post 500 AD era.

Lombard Swordsman art non-existent. ("red-circle error").

 

[srpt]

Lombard Swordsman art non-existent. ("red-circle error").

Western Rome respawning in the post 500 AD era.

Kingdom of Wu, 220 AD start, the goal "be the first to discover the stirrup" is failed on the first turn.

AI Yamato lacks a capital in the 550 AD start.

fixed

as Antigonids, Roman stack spawned in Babylon, rather than a coastal city.

that should not be possible. ??

The Religions screen also extends past the monitor.

do you have a small monitor? it took forever to get the screen to look right on mine and fit all the religions. is there a slider?

If the Rome has conquerors against the Judeans, it doesn't show. I don't think they do?

I gave them a break since Roman conquerors could be quite game-breaking for Judea in some circumstances. historically the Romans preferred to vassalize them anyway.

any ideas for UPs, UUs and UBs for the Goths, Lombards and Vandals?

Gadrauhts is Gothic for soldier or militiaman, taken from Wulfila's gothic bible. also the word Hansa is used to describe a cohort.

edit: lowered city maintenace and civic upkeep by 20%

 

[DC123456789]

Since Rome is now restricted to 2 civil wars, during their third major crisis they now have a collapse to core, which is even worse than a Roman civil war.

 

[CrossRFC]

Since Rome is now restricted to 2 civil wars, during their third major crisis they now have a collapse to core, which is even worse than a Roman civil war.

This.

Goguryeo's UB, Hanbok Maker, is a Weaver, but Weavers can no longer be built.

@srpt: Fixed the city name map (with the one I linked)?

Also:

Some ideas for UP, UU, UB:

1) Ostrogoths: I hear much about their tolerance of Catholicism despite being Arian. Some kind of happiness bonus for religions could be the UP. For the UB, I suggest Arian Baptistery to replace Christian temples or monasteries. UU could be a swordsman with Discipline (and/or Formation) bonus, since they are reputed to have better organisation and logistics than other Germanic armies (due to the Ostrogothic kingdom's similarity to previous Roman rule).

2) Visigoths: UP: +50% production of settlers. I derive this from the claim that the Visigoths were the only Germanic invaders to found new cities during late antiquity. UB I have no clue. UU could be a Gothic lancer (a lot of art for such a unit exists on the forums).

3) Vandals: the first things that come to mind are, of course, naval. I would avoid plunder-oriented 'uniques', as it would continue the 'vandalism' stereotype of that people. UU...fire ship?

Fire ships were also employed by the Vandals in 468 against the armada sent by the Eastern Roman Empire.

UB could be a harbour or the like. UP could be a navigation bonus, perhaps.

4) Lombards: I'd give them some kind of buffed spearman UU, some sort of militia or local garrison. UP could be related to the higher number of freemen:

The freemen of the Lombard kingdom were far more numerous than in Frank lands, especially in the 8th century, when they are almost invisible in surviving documentary evidence.

Perhaps a or bonus to cottages, workshops, or some sort of percentile change in either.

UB: it's not glorious, but we could turn the market into some kind of food bonus prairie...

The urbanisation of Lombard Italy was characterised by the città ad isole (or "city as islands"). It appears from archaeology that the great cities of Lombard Italy — Pavia, Lucca, Siena, Arezzo, Milan — were themselves formed of minute islands of urbanisation within the old Roman city walls. The cities of the Roman Empire had been partially destroyed in the series of wars of the 5th and 6th centuries. Many sectors were left in ruins and ancient monuments became fields of grass used as pastures for animals, thus the Roman Forum became the campo vaccinio, the field of cows. The portions of the cities that remained intact were small, modest, contained a cathedral or major church (often sumptuously decorated), and a few public buildings and townhomes of the aristocracy. Few buildings of importance were stone, most were wood. In the end, the inhabited parts of the cities were separated from one another by stretches of pasture even within the city walls.

It isn't the best list of UUs/UPs/UBs, but after spending a whole day of off-and-on research, it's the best I can come up with.

edit: Honestly, I'm not sure if the whole "heavy spearmen -> swordsmen -> heavy infantry" progression of units is exactly the way to go, considering what late antique armies actually were. I wonder what everyone else's thoughts are on this.

@srpt: the Romans declared war on me. Then, all of a sudden, I lost Babylon to the Romans, whose troops I did not see in the area, and I did not get any invaders elsewhere, so either the invaders just didn't come and they happened to be near Babylon at the time (which means there's still a bug), or that the invaders appeared, but near Babylon.

edit: "An independent city has fallen under the protection of Rome" event occuring well past the Byzantine spawn. This should be disabled by 330 AD at best.

 

[DrZomboss]

1. I think you should rename Icosium to Yksm in Punic
2. "Noricum" is not a city but a region. A Celtic city in there was Noreia, the capital of Noricum
3. Verlamium is in Celtic Verlamion
4. Ecbatana is more likely to be "Epiphania" in the hellenistic period
5. Also, in Celtic Mediolanum --> Melpum, Bononia --> Felsina.
6. Finally, Rome was originally named Ruma by the Etruscans

 

[CrossRFC]

1. I think you should rename Icosium to Yksm in Punic
2. "Noricum" is not a city but a region. A Celtic city in there was Noreia, the capital of Noricum
3. Verlamium is in Celtic Verlamion
4. Ecbatana is more likely to be "Epiphania" in the hellenistic period
5. Also, in Celtic Mediolanum --> Melpum, Bononia --> Felsina.
6. Finally, Rome was originally named Ruma by the Etruscans

Point 1) is already implemented in the Punic dictionary.

2) I have no idea how that got in there. Later, when I have time, I will look over the entire Balkans region. I see some weirdness there in contrast to my source material.

3) You mean Verulamium? In which case, entry added to Celtic dictionary.

4) Greek sources tell me:

Greek: Ἀγβάτανα Agbatana in Aeschylus and Herodotus, elsewhere Ἐκβάτανα Ekbatana

There are still missing/erroneous entries in the dictionary, which I have fixed/added.

5) Yes, done.


6) That would be only a change in the 320 BC map. I'll get to that and fix some other weird names if I see any. Of course, as srpt just pointed out, Rome had, by 320 BC, long ago freed itself of the Etruscan sphere, so such a change doesn't make sense chronologically. Silly me for not thinking that one through!

P.S. @srpt the maps.ods still contains the lack of commas, so replace that file as well as the python file to prevent others from editing an erroneous file.

# 16: Germanic
{
	"Mediolanum" : "Milan",
	"Lutetia" : "Paris",
},

Um, what???

Nothing uploaded yet since I need to review the Balkans and the 320 BC map before I'm done with that.

 

[srpt]

moderated the early Manchurian barbs a bit. Gojoseon is fine as a player controlled civ. the goals could actually be harder so I think I will increase the first goal to 5 chinese cities. I don't think its too big a deal if they die early as AI.

go ahead with the city name changes but Rome is not implied to be under Etruscan control in 320BC. Its Roman, just not player controlled Roman.

I think the city name spreadsheet is ok now.

the Hanbok maker is now a textile mill replacement. I took away the bonus happiness changes since it now has the production bonuses from the textile mill but kept the artist and merchant slots.

stability moderated again with specific reference to fall dates.

 

[CrossRFC]

Yes, Gojoseon's survival (or lack thereof) has essentially no effect on the development of later civs. This contrasts to certain civs, critically Parthia, Rome, Sassanid Persia, Arabs, Franks, Han, Kushans, Satavahanas, Mauryans, Seleucids, whose rise (or fall) is tied to the balance of everything else.

 

[DrZomboss]

1. I mean Epiphania is in the hellenistic period only
2. Bharuch/Barygaza should be a coastal city
3. Indy Bactra should exist already in the 320 BC scenario
4. Mariba --> Adana in Greek
5. Make a new civ, the Bosporean Kingdom, which starts in 320 BC at Pantikapaion (Crimea) or Tanais
6.Hinduism should founded in 300 BC
7. Barbarian Gerrha may be founded somewhere in the II century BC
8. Spelling mistakes in "Masillia" and "Patalla"
9. Berenice (other one) is also a Greek name for a city located near Malao
10. Musiris - Greek name for a city near Vanchi Murthur - Muchiripattanam
11. Poduke Emporion - Greek name for a city near Kaveripattinam
12. Persian name for Hecatompylos - Sad Darvazeh
13. Persian name for Ctesiphon - Tisfun
14. Error with the Dacian spawn in the 80 BC scenario, because the Dacians normally start 5 years later
15. An idea for a terrain - Unhistorical area, used to mark a terrain when the founded city will be called "City"

 

[CrossRFC]

Can we have some of the sources you got most of this from, even if it's just links to wikipedia articles? You've clearly already done some research, and it would save me the trouble of having to confirm most of these myself, to check their validitity (which is in some doubt, see below).

6) Both Hinduism and Buddhism had been founded as of 320 BC. Also, the period between 320 BC and 300 BC is highly distorted, to better represent the chain of events which happened between 320 BC and 270 BC in Alexander's empire.

5) because of the sheer number of civs, adding a new one is difficult, and there is a long list of contenders to be "the next civ to add". It also heavily interferes with Pontus' UHV and natural expansion. It's not impossible to add, but these are the limitations.

An idea for a terrain - Unhistorical area, used to mark a terrain when the founded city will be called "City"

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, but cities will only be called "City" if they're not on the city name map, which eventually will be full so no "City" cities will occur. If a city is not in the historical area of the civ, it will still adopt the name of the city based on the map, and oftentimes, on the "Native" name of the city, from the native/independent dictionary. If you need some kind of logical explanation for this, one can surmise that the new city would be named after whatever the local people call the settlement that would have occupied the same space.

On at least one point, you are wrong: the naming of Massilia, of which RFCCW's naming is indeed correct, as noted here:

[...] known in antiquity as Massilia or Massalia

Now, whether we should call it Massilia or Massalia is up to debate, but it certainly isn't "Masillia".