RFC Classical World

[CrossRFC]

Hmm, playing the 500 AD start...and London is Visigothic :|

 

[srpt]

I will take Sinope away from the Antigonids.

there is gold a bit north in Dacia. maybe a silver could be added.

the Visigoth London is fixed in the SVN.

 

[CrossRFC]

A silver in the region seems indeed fine. While on the topic of resources, perhaps a deer resource for the region of Spalatum? The only resource in the area around there is coal. Or perhaps add a sheep instead, or even a fish/clam resource.

Taking Sinope away from the Antigonids will give them some needed weakening. Though they might need a Rome-style event for capturing Pella before they get destroyed.

Edit: Yep, I can confirm that London is indy now. Still thinking about an inspiring UP for Antigonids. Are the Antigonid unit's voices set to Greek?

In the 500 AD start, the Sassanids don't start with any techs. They don't have luxury trade, agriculture, fishing, etc etc

Further update: I'm removed Sinope from Antigonids at start, given the Seleucids 3 more hoplites, stationned in Aleppo and Damascus, and given the Ptolemies one or two more Galatian infantry in Alexandria, as well as an extra archer in Jerusalem, and the balance actually works out rather well. I've also added Trapezous at x=44,y=35, added a fish to the tile above that and added sheep to the hill at x=43,y=33 (out of reach of Antioch).

Further edit: aha! I've found a decent Antigonid UHV: make Pella your capital by 200 BC (or the like). Perhaps the Antigonid UP could be a stability boost on the construction of a new capital (not an amazing idea but not terrible).

 

[Sitalkas]

what about : no resistance in conquered cities , as a UP?

generally, Alexander's army was welcomed in conquered cities and he was considered as a liberator.. (actually the only resistance he faced was in modern Afghanistan as far as I know)

or is it OP you think? They are in a difficult situation, they have to be given a strong UP.
Personally I liked the +30% in cities with Greek temple that was proposed by Proman

 

[CrossRFC]

Well, that's the Sassanid UP, so it would be rather redundant.

I've made some changes to the 320 BC start, to better balance the Successors from the start (as well as a few minor changes to resources in the Balkans.

Changes:
-Antigonids get a galley with 2 heavy spearmen it in (purpose: capturing Pella)
-Ptolemys gets a galley to counter the Antigonid galley
-Ptolemys get an extra Galatian infantry and a spearman to better deal with their rivals
-Seleucids gets 3 extra hoplites in the Levant
-Sinope is rebel
-Trapezous added, with extra fish and sheep ressource to make the city viable
-Silver, horses added to Pella. Tile south of Pella turned into flat grasslands.
-Pig pasture east of Pella removed for balance.
-Clam west of Athens moved one tile west, to be in reach of Tarentum
-Sheep added to Spalatum's BFC

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4694633/RFC%20Classical%20World%20320BC.CivBeyondSwordWBSave

 

[Sitalkas]

ah, I havent tryed the Sassanids yet sorry !

 

[CrossRFC]

I thought that UP had been taken, so I looked through the list and found it for Sassanids. The +30% bonus from Hellenistic temple seems more like a UB than a UP, since it only applies to one building. How about...one free specialist per city?

 

[Sitalkas]

or free promotions to their peltats ??

 

[CrossRFC]

Free combat I promotions for every unit would be nice. Let me check if that's already done.

Edit: nope, not done for yet, so seems fair.

Also, I've changed the 2 heavy spearmen in the Antigonid galley to 2 regular spearmen, as I believe it is perhaps too OP, for a human player especially. AI will need help conquering Greece before they get overwhelmed in the Levant.

Currently doing some edit work for consts.py. Adding Pella as Antigonid new capital/respawn capital. Also adding Antigonids as neighbour/war target for the other successors, which doesn't seem to be done.

All my versions of the files should be found here.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xmzb0yl3yl49vx2/3a5NuJwFxX

 

[Lokki242]

Played a game as Nubia until about 100AD, here's a few things that bugged me;

1. Judah destroyed Egypt within 20 turns of their spawn, then took over Arabia. It was a little ridiculous.

2. Rome comes to a complete halt after conquering Greece and Spain. It never took North Africa, Egypt, Gaul or the East.

3. Satavahana (Idk if I spelled that correctly) was really powerful. That was fine. The fact that it vassalised Armenia and Axum was not. Maybe a requirement for vassalisation should be the nations share a border?

 

[CrossRFC]

Played a game as Nubia until about 100AD, here's a few things that bugged me;

1. Judah destroyed Egypt within 20 turns of their spawn, then took over Arabia. It was a little ridiculous.

2. Rome comes to a complete halt after conquering Greece and Spain. It never took North Africa, Egypt, Gaul or the East.

3. Satavahana (Idk if I spelled that correctly) was really powerful. That was fine. The fact that it vassalised Armenia and Axum was not. Maybe a requirement for vassalisation should be the nations share a border?

Yep, that sounds about right. Unfortunately, with the recent addition of the Antigonids, balance has been thrown off. I'm currently working on seeing what I can do with it, and srpt's probably making his own changes (although he can borrow some of mine if he thinks they're a good addition ).

Update on my progress: Antigonid unit languages set to Greek. Antigonus's traits tweaked a bit. Added contact with Carthage on spawn. Roman UP events made harder against human, except for Carthage (the least able to deal with such stacks). Antigonid UP added! Stability provinces tweaked. Minor map changes.

 

[srpt]

changes in svn:

resources added and changed around Pella and Spalatum

Antigonids, Seleucids and Ptolemys get some extra units if AI, including siege

Antigonids and Ptolemys start with 1 galley each, AI or human

Roman AI hopefully improved

Maccabeans start with 1 less unit

 

[CrossRFC]

changes in svn:

resources added and changed around Pella and Spalatum

Antigonids, Seleucids and Ptolemys get some extra units if AI, including siege

Antigonids and Ptolemys start with 1 galley each, AI or human

Roman AI hopefully improved

Maccabeans start with 1 less unit

Yep, that should fix the balance now, according to my own tests. I'll run a few starts as Axum to see what I get. I'm also trying to think up a way for Antigonids to get Thrace and Greece all the while losing Anatolia, and not have it be deterministic and forced. Nothing yet though.

Edit: Balance is looking good! Romans doing well, successors actually capturing rival cities, taking them back, the 3rd party takes advantage to steal a city...etc. Very nice. I do notice that Carthage collapses very often though, and not because barbs captured all their cities or they were conquered. They might have lost a city in Spain once to barbs, but nothing warranting collapse. Maybe the loss of a poorly defended city in Mauretania or Africa causes a lot of stability loss because it's a core region. I guess barbs could perhaps be toned down in that corner until 0 AD or 100 AD or the like (not that it's too heavy currently). Or AI Carthage could just get a stability buff to offset it.

Anyone else noticing that about Carthage, or is it just me?

Also, I just noticed: Is Bordeaux supposed to flip to Rome on spawn? That's odd...

Looking back at the game logs, it seems that pre-AD barbarians are too much for the AI too handle. I've seen Milan, Seleucia, Roman Egypt, Byzantion, Pella, Athens, Parsa, and other important cities be captured by barbarians in the same game!

 

[srpt]

more balance changes, successors get fewer units & no siege (not really needed that early), Rome is more flexible with the human player.

Burdigala should no longer flip to Rome (but Massilia still does)

 

[CrossRFC]

AI successor vs successor still working out well, with meaningful, but balanced combat, and costly for each kingdom, which represents that struggle quite well. Though in this version, when I played the Antigonids, I was much less likely to lose Syria to the other 2 even when playing carelessly on purpose. This may or may not be desirable, depending on how difficult you intend the Antigonid start to be. I believe I'd advocate for a stronger Seleucid Empire against me at start, because Parthia really does most of the job for me collapsing them, making me only really need to focus against the Ptolemaic Kingdom.

Turns out that Antigonids owning Athens from start is not ahistorical. Maybe their heavy spearmen could be moved there, in the hopes they take Pella. This would also, historically so, weaken their position in the Levant. Just an idea to get the Antigonids to act historically.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Diadoch.png

Update: Playing as Seleucids this time, and it's quite challenging, in very fun way that forces you to think strategically. UHV is much harder, but I don't think it is impossible. Their UU is only advantageous when on the offense, which is a nice touch.

Maybe Rome's free units on war declaration against its neighbours should only take effect after 200 - 180 BC (time of the 2nd Punic War), to give the AI, and the human player, some time to take in the Hellenistic setting of the 3rd century BC before the Roman takeover. I don't think this limitation would hinder Rome's progress. Currently, they get to Mesopotamia before the Parthians even spawn!

 

[DC123456789]

Why is Arabia historical for Armenia? Also, I agree that Anatolia should be split into 2 or 3 provinces (east, north, west).

Edit: Also, when the Sungas collapsed, the messages said "The The Sungas has been destroyed!"

 

[CrossRFC]

It seems adding the Antigonids has shifted the Dawn of Man messages by one for everyone.

 

[DC123456789]

The 3rd Armenian UHV goal doesn't trigger at 100 AD.

 

[srpt]

@ Crossphazer: I'm not against the Antigonids holding Athens at the start. Balance definitely takes precedence over down-to-the-year historical accuracy here. Is there a date for that map though?

Yes some restriction on the Roman conquerors is probably a good idea.

Not sure why the Armenian UHV isn't triggering, but I'll look into it soon in a game.

Dawns of man have been fixed. if anyone wants to fill in the missing ones or improve the existing ones please feel free to post ideas.

Arabia is in Armenia's Broader Regions and I didn't realise Broader Regions show up as "Border Provinces" in the Civilopedia. That's been changed now so only Normal Regions show up there. THe function of Broader Regions in RFCCW is different than in SoI. they are foreign territory as far as stability is concerned. their main function right now is to set the outer limits of AI expansion since if the AI conquers a city outside of all of its regions the city goes barbarian on the next turn. this is to prevent AIs from incongruously holding far away cities.

I think the Sunga name thing is fixed too.

I'm also thinking of going 1 year/turn. the longest auto-play would still be less than 150 turns I think and there are so many UHVs that are too time-compressed imo: Mauryans, Seleucids, Armenians, Qin, Jin and others. also I really do not want to try to balance the mod for 2 speeds.

why do you want to split Anatolia? can you be quite specific?

 

[DC123456789]

Arabia is in Armenia's Broader Regions and I didn't realise Broader Regions show up as "Border Provinces" in the Civilopedia.

Actually, I noticed while playing as Armenia. Are what the civilopedia says and what it displays on the map directly correlated, out of interest? Also, I'm not sure why Mesopotamia and Media also say "historical"... maybe it's the same problem?

why do you want to split Anatolia? can you be quite specific?

Some civs only had influence over part of Anatolia, mainly either the east, or the west, or both. Although, come to think of it, there weren't exactly that many civs in this timeline that were really like this.