RFC Classical World

[Qiu]

hey thank you all for the interest and support! its very much appreciated.

amazing that people in China are playing this mod (and those animated bunnies are awesome). this makes me really happy.

I will take your advice and move Jianye 2 tiles south.

also I have 2 cities called Wu (as well as a kingdom and a leader!). one is in the Shanghai location and one is Wuhan I think. could we name these 2 cities differently so its less confusing? can we call them Hangzhou and Wuhan?

please keep the feedback coming!

btw, that's my post

also, noticed that while playing Bactrians, workers cannot build mines. I don't know the reason.

 

[Qiu]

hey thank you all for the interest and support! its very much appreciated.

amazing that people in China are playing this mod (and those animated bunnies are awesome). this makes me really happy.

I will take your advice and move Jianye 2 tiles south.

also I have 2 cities called Wu (as well as a kingdom and a leader!). one is in the Shanghai location and one is Wuhan I think. could we name these 2 cities differently so its less confusing? can we call them Hangzhou and Wuhan?

please keep the feedback coming!

In face I have called for China city name map supplements in that thread. Unfortunately many guys couldn't get access to Google documents (thanks to the Great Fire Wall).

I think Wu near Wuhan refers to the county of Wu（巫）, at AD583 it has been renamed as the county of Wushan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wushan_County,_Chongqing

Wu in the Shanghai location always be called the county of Wu（吴/吳）. Btw, the name of the Kingdom of Wu (吴国/吳&#22283 originated from it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_(region)

As far as I know, Wu（吴/吳） was an important region in classical and mid-ages. And both Wushan and Wu are not so near to Wuhan or Hangzhou. Maybe Wu（巫）could be replaced by Wushan(but before AD583, it was actually called as Wu) or any historical name of Chongqing. It locates near that plot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chongqing

I think the leader Wu of Han refers to Wu(&#27494. Alphabetizing Chinese characters really can be a tough task, considering many different Chinese characters share a same pronunciation. Thank you for your hard work. In fact as a Chinese native, I misunderstood the meaning of province of Han as well. It should refer to Han（韩/韓），one of the Warring States. However, I though it refers to Han（汉/漢） at first, the name of the great imperial dynasty.

 

[whisperwind777]

Srpt, Considering the location and the name of the coastal city "Wu". We think you might want the city to represent the kingdom "Wu" from 1200BC to 473BC in history. The capital city of the "Wu" kingdom is "Helju", which belonged to "Huiji" province after emperor Yingzheng of "Qin" conquered the area in 222BC. The province was renamed "Wu" in 129AD and "Suzhou" in 589AD which is its modern name. You can't name it "Hangzhou" for the actual location of "Hangzhou" lies 2 tiles south of it and "Hangzhou" is the capital city of another kingdom "Yue" which is even older since 2100BC.
Here is what happened in history: Kingdom "Yue" was conquered by king "Fuchai" of "Wu" in 494BC and became a vessal of "Wu", and king "Goujian" of "Yue" had to become a servant of king "Fuchai" to spare his life. But the king "Goujian" never lost his heart and in 473BC he was able to defeat king "Fuchai" on his own army. King "Fuchai" wanted to surrender but king "Goujian" refused so that King "Fuchai" had to suicide. Since then Kingdom "Wu" was destoried and became part of kingdom "Yue". In 306BC kingdom "Chu" whose capital city is "Changsha" conquered kingdom "Yue". The citizens of kingdom "Yue" fled south to found their new home in areas like "Minyue" and "Nanhai". By the way, "Vietnam" in Chinese means "south of Yue" and is inhabited by the decendants of citizens of kingdom "Yue" since then.
You might name the city "Wu" if you like, but I suppose "Suzhou" is a better name for everyone can find it on google earth thus knows where it is. Adding another city "Hangzhou" will make the area too crouded and is not neccesary for there's already another city "Minyue" that may represent the exitence of kingdom "Yue".

 

[Qiu]

Srpt, Considering the location and the name of the coastal city "Wu". We think you might want the city to represent the kingdom "Wu" from 1200BC to 473BC in history. The capital city of the "Wu" kingdom is "Helju", which belonged to "Huiji" province after emperor Yingzheng of "Qin" conquered the area in 222BC. The province was renamed "Wu" in 129AD and "Suzhou" in 589AD which is its modern name. You can't name it "Hangzhou" for the actual location of "Hangzhou" lies 2 tiles south of it and "Hangzhou" is the capital city of another kingdom "Yue" which is even older since 2100BC.
Here is what happened in history: Kingdom "Yue" was conquered by king "Fuchai" of "Wu" in 494BC and became a vessal of "Wu", and king "Goujian" of "Yue" had to become a servant of king "Fuchai" to spare his life. But the king "Goujian" never lost his heart and in 473BC he was able to defeat king "Fuchai" on his own army. King "Fuchai" wanted to surrender but king "Goujian" refused so that King "Fuchai" had to suicide. Since then Kingdom "Wu" was destoried and became part of kingdom "Yue". In 306BC kingdom "Chu" whose capital city is "Changsha" conquered kingdom "Yue". The citizens of kingdom "Yue" fled south to found their new home in areas like "Minyue" and "Nanhai". By the way, "Vietnam" in Chinese means "south of Yue" and is inhabited by the decendants of citizens of kingdom "Yue" since then.
You might name the city "Wu" if you like, but I suppose "Suzhou" is a better name for everyone can find it on google earth thus knows where it is. Adding another city "Hangzhou" will make the area too crouded and is not neccesary for there's already another city "Minyue" that may represent the exitence of kingdom "Yue".

In fact, the county of Wu(吴&#21439 exists until around AD2000. Now it incorporated into the region of Suzhou. The most important city there should be the city of Wu and then Jianye/Nanjing. I think province and city names should be distinguished.

btw, 会稽 reads as "Kuaiji"

 

[whisperwind777]

In fact, the county of Wu(吴&#21439 exists until around AD2000. Now it incorporated into the region of Suzhou. The most important city there should be the city of Wu and then Jianye/Nanjing. I think province and city names should be distinguished.

btw, 会稽 reads as "Kuaiji"

In fact it reads as "Huiji" ,check this.
Since each city in CIV4 controls a region, we use city name like Changsha, Chang'an and Luoyang to represent the capital city of that area, and give another name to each province. The city of "Suzhou" is the capital city of "Wu", I see no reason why we don't simply name the city "Suzhou" instead of "Wu" and the province "Wu" including city "Jianye" and "Suzhou" for better understanding.

 

[Qiu]

In fact it reads as "Huiji" ,check this.
Since each city in CIV4 controls a region, we use city name like Changsha, Chang'an and Luoyang to represent the capital city of that area, and give another name to define each province. The city of "Suzhou" is the capital city of "Wu", I see no reason why we don't simply name the city "Suzhou" instead of "Wu" and the province "Wu" including city "Jianye" and "Suzhou" for better understanding.

It really reads as Kuaiji.
http://www.zdic.net/cd/ci/6/ZdicE4ZdicBCZdic9A93089.htm
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/会稽

 

[Qiu]

Actually, the city of Wu and Suzhou are almost the same city. Just different names in different periods. Both name could work.

 

[DC123456789]

Are you planning to do something about the Mauryans? I've never even seen them conquer a city, much less all of India.

 

[srpt]

thanks for all the detail. I'm happy to try to make the mod as accurate as possible within the limits of Civ.

seems like Suzhou is a good name for that coastal city. it can have different names if conquered by different civs though so it can have a Han name, a Jin name and a Tang name if thats appropriate.

I've decided to let the calendar go 1 1/2 years per turn all the way through. this will make loading times a bit longer but the Kushans on my computer still take less than 10 minutes. this means the Jin will have more time for their goals.

I'm interested in comments on the Chinese provinces. I'd like to keep the number of provinces about the same and the different UHVs need to be taken into account, but I'm open to changes if you guys think they're needed.

 

[Qiu]

In the case of Suzhou, according to Chinese version wiki both Han and Jin dynasty called it the city of Wu. It was AD589 that renamed as Suzhou by Sui dynasty ruler. Then the name inherited by Tang and other following dynasties.

Wu/Suzhou and Jianye/Nanjing had been always the most important cities in that region (in this mod probably refers to the province of Wu), until Shanghai emerged after 1840. So Jianye/Nanjing should be included in Wu province rather than Chu IMO.

Personally I suggest the province of Wu renamed as the province of Wuyue. So Hangzhou area can be included. Wuyue people can always be talked together, and they share a neighbouring tongue, culture and tradition. Finally the province name Wu and the city name Wu won't overlap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu-speaking_peoples

In attached picture, I marked out the location of Suzhou, Nanjing and Hangzhou.

 

[Qiu]

Also some suggestions about historical Chinese city names. Some Chinese dynasties are fond of naming their capitals uniquely, while their successors tend to deny it. So it can be rather troublesome.

Chang'an should be named Xianyang when it was the capital of Qin. In fact it was Han dynasty renamed it as Chang'an. The imperial city was not overlapped but rather near (several kilometers). Sui dynasty called it Daxing, then Tang dynasty restored the name of Chang'an.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianyang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changan

For Nanjing, that area was called Moling under the Qin and Han dynasties, while not an important city. In Three Kingdom ages, the Kingdom of Wu build it as their new capital (formerly the city of Wu), and named it Jianye. Jin dynasty renamed it as Jiankang. After escaping from the north, Jiankang served as the capital of East Jin dynasty and following Southern Dynasties. The city was razed after the Sui conquest. It was re-built in later Tang, but no more as brilliant as before, until Ming dynasty chose it as their (southern) capital and named it Nanjing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing

For the city of Shu, in fact it should be Chengdu. Shu was the province name, and Chengdu is the capital, so Chengdu was occasionally called the city of Shu, especially during Qin dynasty. However, its formal name is always Chengdu, even before Qin conquest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu

For the city of Nanhai, as far as I know Nanhai was the county name rather than the city name in Qin dynasty. According to Wiki, the city name should be Panyu. The Kingdom of Wu renamed the province as Guangzhou and Jiaozhou. After the Tang dynasty, the capital city began to be called as Guangzhou city.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzhou

 

[Wessel V1]

Still following this mod despite having no time to actually play it. I hope I can find some time to play in about a month, until then I keep lurking. It's looking good!

 

[CrossRFC]

Just wanted to say keep up the good work

Edit: The 2nd Sabaen UHV is...difficult.

 

[Sitalkas]

finally i got my first historical victory!

played as the Byzantines in 220 AD scenario, I got Alexander's title

I really enjoyed the total war feeling and I was amazed by the historical accuracy of the mod ! The Romans collapsed when the goths took France and Spain, The Sassanids kept me busy in the east, the Kushans were strong in India !

now I am trying a Seleucids game and I am going really nice. The trick is your economy obviously.
The first try with them was a mess as my units were disbanding due to lack of funds! The second try was better!
Moved science to 20% and ALL cities were building wealth from the beginning, except Babylon which built:fairground, market, Royal Mint!
By the time Babylon had built all these, I had conquered Egypt with the 2 starting elephants and hoplites and started moving my experienced units to Greece!
With some nice gold in my vaults (around 1200 gold) I switched most of my cities from wealth to economy buildings (fairgrounds, markets, wonders) to be able to raise my science bar which is still to 20% !
Now I am controlling all Alexander's area and I already have a great general! I think I am going to win the scenario!

did I mention how much I like the mod?? Great entertainment !

I wanna try a Japanese game after a victorious Seleucids one!

Great work

edit: started a game with the Japanese, just to see their starting position! in 320 BC scenario, and after the loading screen ended, I spawned in the middle east, in the place that the Sassanids should have spawned!! I have the Sassanid's title but the Japanese flag!

 

[CrossRFC]

In 18 AD as Bactria, I suddenly lose all cities to rebels and lose the game, and for no apparent reason. There is no mention of any events, and I wasn't unstable enough to collapse. Is this some sort of weird bug?

Edit: Oh, by the way, I think the 1st Tocharian UHV is to have 5 open borders *BY* 100 AD, not *in* 100 AD, because the condition triggered as soon as I had 5 OB agreements, in 100 BC.

 

[srpt]

thanks for the feedback and appreciation. had a busy weekend working but I should be able to look into those bugs tomorrow afternoon.

btw the Japanese really haven't been worked on at all. should get around to them.

 

[CrossRFC]

In general, I've noticed that a good part of many civ's UHVs are either nearly impossible (depends on the situation you start in) or so difficult that achieving the goal is frustrating rather than fun. For example, as the Celts, dealing with Rome is already a challenge, but in addition, you have to conquer as far as Anatolia by 100 BC ! I think you got the Celtic UHVs in the wrong order. Dealing with Rome should be the earliest one, and total conquest should either be at a much later date, or not date-dependent at all. Many other UHVs can also be fixed by changing the dates or making the goals less lofty for the smaller civs.

Further edit: the 3rd UHV for Celts does not trigger in 50 AD. I'm fairly certain it will never trigger, but I haven't played until the end.

 

[DC123456789]

Not sure if you've fixed it already, but as of revision 438 (svn), the dynamic names are kind of screwed up- The Mauryans and Qin don't become the Sunga Empire and Nan Yue, respectively, when they respawn, and the Han becomes the Kingdom of Wu at like 100 BC or so (forgot the date). Finally, all of the Au Lac UHV checkmarks trigger even when the conditions aren't actually fulfilled. The second one (no Chinese culture in Nan Yue) is always "good" from the beginning, whereas the population goals turn "good" even if they aren't fulfilled at about 100-80 BC (not sure about the date). I haven't played far enough to see if the UHVs themselves trigger incorrectly.

Edit: If it makes any difference, I'm playing on Epic. Never encountered any other problems, though.

 

[CrossRFC]

Not sure if you've fixed it already, but as of revision 438 (svn), the dynamic names are kind of screwed up- The Mauryans and Qin don't become the Sunga Empire and Nan Yue, respectively, when they respawn, and the Han becomes the Kingdom of Wu at like 100 BC or so (forgot the date). Finally, all of the Au Lac UHV checkmarks trigger even when the conditions aren't actually fulfilled. The second one (no Chinese culture in Nan Yue) is always "good" from the beginning, whereas the population goals turn "good" even if they aren't fulfilled at about 100-80 BC (not sure about the date). I haven't played far enough to see if the UHVs themselves trigger incorrectly.

Edit: If it makes any difference, I'm playing on Epic. Never encountered any other problems, though.

Yeah, from my experiences, playing on Epic completely breaks the timeline. I don't think an Epic timescale has been correctly made yet, so I would avoid anything but normal.

Edit: As a side note, the city of Kokand (directly East of Samarqand, in the mountains) does not have an entry in the Tocharian settlermap. It appears as "CITY_NAME_MISSING".

Further edit: The Jin Empire (China)...is Sassanid. They have cataphracts, their culture is "Sassanid" and their leader is Shapur...

Another edit: in 389 AD as Korea, the game crashes unexpectedly.

 

[Sitalkas]

Oh another thing I forgot to mention ..

While playing as the Byzantines, when a christian building was build, the religious sound which was played was the one dedicated to the islam buildings! Is this correct or is it a bug ??