RFC Europe: Extending/Fixing City Name Maps

[BurnEmDown]

I think it would be OK to have the capital of Germany flip to the Dutch. That would help symbolize the change of ages, from the Holy Roman Empire to the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation as you wrote. That would also make the Dutch stronger. Maybe it would be possible to code that once the Dutch spawn then Germany's capital is moved to the biggest city in the area around Berlin, (a 5X5 square or so), and if there's no German city in the area then just pick the biggest city.

 

[3Miro]

micbic, we are trying to put the city names as accurate as possible with respect to the local languages. We should use Koeln if we cannot get the dots.

BurnEmDown, first, capitals do not flip. Second, even if we make them do that, it will result in massive stability penalty for Germany. The capital of Germany should not flip.

On the Holy City, the Holy City of Protestants is chosen at "random" among the cities of the nation that is first to discover the Printing Press. Same as regular "found religion" mechanics.

 

[Samsa]

For the first part of HREs history the emporer was crowned in Aachen, but later they switched to Frankfurt. And they even changed the passage in the Golden Bull to Frankfurt, but it was about 15th century, so we still have 600 years in wich Aachen would fit better as a capital.

And afaik could Magdeburg fit for protestant holy city cause it was kind of a protestant stronghold in the 30 years war.

 

[Michael Vick]

I think this HRE issue belongs in the civ discussion thread, I'm trying to get some maps passed here.

Micbic, here are the rest of the Latin language edits, Arabic coming right up...

 

[micbic]

Thanks, by first chance I will pass them

 

[Michael Vick]

And Arabic, improved a little from last version

 

[Michael Vick]

Forgot to post it.

 

[3Miro]

For the first part of HREs history the emporer was crowned in Aachen, but later they switched to Frankfurt. And they even changed the passage in the Golden Bull to Frankfurt, but it was about 15th century, so we still have 600 years in wich Aachen would fit better as a capital.

And afaik could Magdeburg fit for protestant holy city cause it was kind of a protestant stronghold in the 30 years war.

The holy city for Orthodoxy and Catholicism were very clear. Judaism was also easy. We had some discussions for the Islamic one, since Mekkah is not on the map, so we decided to make it the Arabic capital instead.

Now for Protestantism. There are way too may cities that can clam importance and due to the Protestant lack of centralization, no city can be selected as a clear winner. What we are left with, is pure gameplay. The Protestant city is a random city from the empire of the one who initiates the reformation, that way the player would have incentive to found that religion. If you think about it, if you know that the holy city will not be in your territory, why would you go for Protestantism that can only cost you valuable allies (if they do not switch and you get - x for hated religion).

 

[BurnEmDown]

BurnEmDown, first, capitals do not flip. Second, even if we make them do that, it will result in massive stability penalty for Germany. The capital of Germany should not flip.

I thought it might be possible to code it so that it will flip only to the Dutch (also if you settle Amsterdam and move your capital to it, how would that work when the Dutch spawn?), and also code no stability maluses from it, but of course only if the small suggestion makes sense anyway gameplay-wise and historically-wise.
I think for both this change will symbolize the transition of Germany from HRE to a more German-only state, However I really don't understand much about this part of the world during that era, so only if someone with good history "back up" could confirm it makes sense.
And for gameplay point of view, maybe when that happens Germany would get a popuo message relating the current event, which would create a 1 turn anarchy (that seems fitting historically), but would also let them change 2 civics of their choice, without any added anarchy (to further symbolize the change of eras for Germany).

 

[3Miro]

I thought it might be possible to code it so that it will flip only to the Dutch (also if you settle Amsterdam and move your capital to it, how would that work when the Dutch spawn?), and also code no stability maluses from it, but of course only if the small suggestion makes sense anyway gameplay-wise and historically-wise.
I think for both this change will symbolize the transition of Germany from HRE to a more German-only state, However I really don't understand much about this part of the world during that era, so only if someone with good history "back up" could confirm it makes sense.
And for gameplay point of view, maybe when that happens Germany would get a popuo message relating the current event, which would create a 1 turn anarchy (that seems fitting historically), but would also let them change 2 civics of their choice, without any added anarchy (to further symbolize the change of eras for Germany).

The player (AI) makes the change and we should not force that to happen on a specific date. Civ is a game about what could have been more than what was. If the world situation is different, then perhaps Germany would have evolved differently.

To indicate changes, we have the dynamic civ names, that is, the name will change according to events/Eras/Techs/Time and so on.

BTW: change of a capital + anarchy is enough to destroy any country in RFC Europe

 

[Myri]

Oops, did not know they later crowned in Frankfurt, than Frankfurt is ok as capital.

Found the other Frankfurt named Francfort. It's Frankfurt/Oder, Frankfurt a. d. Oder, Frankfurt an der Oder. The western Frankfurt is Frankfurt/Main, Frankfurt a. Main, Frankfurt am Main.

The "of german nation" was just a new name. Maybe forget the HRE and speak of the Kingdom of Germany, the most important part of the HRE in the borders the game needs and a unified power unlike the huge HRE.

bye Myri

 

[BurnEmDown]

What I meant was to completely remove all negative stability Germany will get from the moving of capital and everything else relating to it, but if it would be too much "scripting" the game, and will ruin some gameplay value, then it's forgotten .
On the other hand I'd really like to know what would happen if Germany settle Amsterdam and move the palace there, will the Dutch have to settle on a less-than-favorable spot then?

 

[micbic]

Well done for describing the first squat in RFCE!

 

[onedreamer]

Also Genoa had the "Marseilles" tiles as "Arpinum", I researched and couldn't find out what that was so I changed them to the Italian spelling "Marsiglia".

Arpino is a small town near Rome. Probably Genoa uses the Roman city list

 

[BurnEmDown]

It seems then that the French or Burgundians could do the same to Germany, Cordobans do the same to Spain (although it would be harder), Venetia to Genoa, and Burgundy too if they expand to the south without collapsing, Hungary to Austria, Bulgaria to Hungary, Norse to Sweden, Poland to Moscow (harder too), Norse to England too? Maybe France to England.
And almost all of western Europe to the Dutch (poor guys).
Yes these are the possible squats in RFCE just remember not to build any cities in the spawn zone except for the capital!

 

[BurnEmDown]

It seems then that the French or Burgundians could do the same to Germany, Cordobans do the same to Spain (although it would be harder), Venetia to Genoa, and Burgundy too if they expand to the south without collapsing, Hungary to Austria, Bulgaria to Hungary, Norse to Sweden, Poland to Moscow (harder too), Norse to England too? Maybe France to England.
And almost all of western Europe to the Dutch (poor guys).
Yes these are the possible squats in RFCE just remember not to build any cities in the spawn zone except for the capital!

 

[Wessel V1]

Lol, I've totally forgotten that RFCE was built on a squatting-allowed version of RFC! I think it won't make much sense to squat though. In RFCE there is more then enough space to settle somewhere else; in RFC the capital location is very important and benefiting because it makes the new civ much weaker. Only the Dutch can be crippled seriously (poor guys), but who would settle Amsterdam anyway? Anvers and Groningen combined are much better than Amsterdam!

 

[3Miro]

The distances in RFCE are much bigger than RFCE. Cordoba cannot get to Leon on time before other cities in the area flip and one of them will automatically become the capital. I believe the same is true for Germany. "Squatting" is possible only if your civ has no cities flipping to it. That again, the time yo move will make you lose the workers. And then you will have one capital city in a hostile area. You cannot build other cities next to your capital, since they will flip.

Try it, but I don't think you can really use that strategy with RFCE.

 

[BurnEmDown]

Well then squatting Genoa should be the same as squatting the Dutch, and also It should be possible to squat Austria as Hungary and leave them to Prague, and I guess it will be possible to squat Hungary as Bulgaria, and England too.
But just a question, if I do "squat" do I get a message asking if I want to give my capital to the newly spawning civ or declare war? Or are they just stuck with a different city as their capital.

 

[3Miro]

Squatting the Dutch or Portuguese in RFC has the effect of totally killing those nations. In RFCE it is not possible to totally kill a nation in that way. Also, in many cases (such as Bulgaria vs Hungary) the player will actually loose much more than gain.