RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[FakeShady]

Somehow you guys don't seem to include the gold aspect of Venice into the game.

Or at least a UHV that requires Venice to build the St Mark Basilica. I suggest the 2nd UHV be:

Control X luxury resources and build the St Mark Basilica by 1600AD

 

[civplayah]

I'm having some problems with CtDs. Alpha 8 was working very nicely and I got through many games, but when I installed Alpha 9, it's crashing at random things like clicking on the Venetians in the Play Now! screen, or just CtD-ing at any given time during the game, places where there seems to be no problem. Is there any fix for this?

 

[fdgsgds]

Just replace the art from Alpha9 of the Venetian LH with the one from Alpha8. It works fine for me now.

 

[micbic]

Sorry for the spam, but HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!!!!!!!!
(here in Greece it is already 1:50 AM of 1/1/2010)

 

[fdgsgds]

Happy New Years!!! It's 8:30 P.M. over here.

 

[sedna17]

I'm having some problems with CtDs. Alpha 8 was working very nicely and I got through many games, but when I installed Alpha 9, it's crashing at random things like clicking on the Venetians in the Play Now! screen, or just CtD-ing at any given time during the game, places where there seems to be no problem. Is there any fix for this?

You probably have an old version of Alpha 9. The Venice LH and a few other pieces of art were corrupt in the version initially posted. The easiest thing to do is to delete your current version of the mod and grab Alpha 9c (https://sourceforge.net/projects/rfceurope/files/RFCEurope_Alpha9c.zip/download)

 

[micbic]

@sedna: I do not know if you had spotted it before, but there is a problem currently with the Turkish Branch.
Results of a test-1580 AD start
1300 AD: The Turks spawn at Brusa, build Brusa and flip the entire area. A military force stands at Gallipoli.
1418 AD: The Turks keep Brusa, but the Byzantines have counterattacked all their other cities. In Europe, they have kept the military force at Gallipoli, which seemingly did not move for a 118year timespan!
Does it have to do with the AI mechanics in general, or with this special case?

 

[merijn_v1]

I also have a problem with the new version. (revision 173) When I load a game (exept Byzantium), I am defeated at the start. I don't have units then. Do you have the same or is it just me?

 

[micbic]

With the normal version--->Yes
With the Turkish branch version--->No (tho it is @r172 yet)
Bringing the r173 to the Turkish branch---> Yes

So it appears the problem is with r173 (...yes it is me...). I will revert it and post r174=r172.

 

[wolfigor]

• 1. Control (at least 8 cities including Crete, Cyprus and Constantinople and nobody else has any cities) the maximum historical extent of the Venetian territories (as previously described on the posted maps) by 1400AD.

• 2. Control (by trade or working resources for yourself) one of every happiness resource in 1600AD.

• 3. Conquer or vassalize Genoa and Milan in 1700AD

You got the spirit of my post really well.
I admit I like the goals as you listed them, they open to some challenge forcing Venice to work on expansion, resources control, and military all together (almost).

What is really missing is an historically accurate development for Venice:

a. The rivalry (and wars) with Genoa were due to Genoa trying to control the eastern commercial routes (see the many Genoa's bases in the black sea and colony in Crimea).
In the game Genoa never goes out of a very small area on the map.

b. The wars against the Turkish
again for the control of eastern trade routes and key territories in the eastern mediterranean: history have shown an epic struggle between the small Venice and the giant Ottoman empire.
Needless to say that in the game the turks are pretty much useless and I never seen them archiving anything close to the historical might (especially in the direction of Europe).

If Genoa and Turkey would do their due, Venice UHV could be more interesting and challenging without having to tweak it so much.

Actually the way trade worked in late medieval time (especially for Venice and Genoa) could be better implemented with a "unique" corporation that only these civs can build.
The corporation will provide one of the luxury resources produced by the civ controlling the the town where the corporation gets installed (or maybe produced in its fat cross).
But this is more difficoult to implement that a simple change of UHV goal.

Main trade routes of late medieval Europe. Black: Hansa, blue: Venetian, red: Genoese, purple: Venetian and Genoese, stippled: overland and river routes.

 

[wolfigor]

Somehow you guys don't seem to include the gold aspect of Venice into the game.

Or at least a UHV that requires Venice to build the St Mark Basilica. I suggest the 2nd UHV be:

Control X luxury resources and build the St Mark Basilica by 1600AD

Probably if Venice controls so many resources then they may get plenty of Gold.
The point is that to recreate a more historical challenge for venice the control of resources is a better "simulation" of Venice's struggle to control trade routes.
The wealth is side-effect and a tool for domination.

Really the game is not too good to simulate well the historical reality of Venice and some trade-off must be done.

Venice character was dominated by:
- trade generating large amount of wealth
- control of trade routes
- trade-posts and relatively small colonies to ensure trade
- wars with other powers for those trade routes
- multicultural outlook

most of them are rather connected together but still difficoult to have in the game

 

[FakeShady]

Probably if Venice controls so many resources then they may get plenty of Gold.
The point is that to recreate a more historical challenge for venice the control of resources is a better "simulation" of Venice's struggle to control trade routes.
The wealth is side-effect and a tool for domination.

Really the game is not too good to simulate well the historical reality of Venice and some trade-off must be done.

Venice character was dominated by:
- trade generating large amount of wealth
- control of trade routes
- trade-posts and relatively small colonies to ensure trade
- wars with other powers for those trade routes
- multicultural outlook

most of them are rather connected together but still difficoult to have in the game

Well like i said, Venice must also have incentive to build st mark basilica. Adding a build-it-by-when into one of the UHVs would be perfect

 

[JediClemente]

Aren't those requirements for Venetians a bit extreme?

In the last alpha I played them and won 2 crusades, but didn't have them redirected to Constantinople. I don't know if this is intended or a bug.

And clearly it's quite wrong to have Venice capturing Jerusalem. Or Genoa (capturing Jerusalem). Or Spain (...), for that matter.

I still do not quite understand completely the "crusade redirection" mechanisms, nor the "financial power".

 

[blizzrd]

Aren't those requirements for Venetians a bit extreme?

No, they go some way towards making UHVs that are actually a challenge - as opposed to the current set (for all civs) which are basically just a formality and simply way too easy to achieve.

 

[TijBonaparte]

Hi

i dont know if this already been reported.

Bulgarie : I dont know if it only me but i find the game too easy. I finish with the double point of my rival. I got 4 vassal(all volonter). In the first turn the 3 citie on byzantium. I finish with 9 citie.

Cordoba : It impossible to get the most cultural citie in 1000. Papal cite and byzantium have so mutch culture. It impossible to get great artist or hurry building with choping forest.

Byzantium : Not really hard. They have low production. The main problem is in 1300. When turkey spawn they found a citie and you have no possibility to win.

Arab : Good balancing. You can do the first quest in the first war. After i got contantinople for a way in europe for sending misionnary in europe. My main problem is the stability.

 

[micbic]

Hi

i dont know if this already been reported.

Hi as well, and welcome to RFCE

Bulgarie : I dont know if it only me but i find the game too easy. I finish with the double point of my rival. I got 4 vassal(all volonter). In the first turn the 3 citie on byzantium. I finish with 9 citie.

Kinda reported. Perhaps the tech rate needs tweaking, as well as the Byzantium starting out weak. The hi-I-want-to-become-a-vassal case is quite usual, yet wrong.

Cordoba : It impossible to get the most cultural citie in 1000. Papal cite and byzantium have so mutch culture. It impossible to get great artist or hurry building with choping forest.

IIRC Cordoba needs to get the biggest in population, not in culture.

Byzantium : Not really hard. They have low production. The main problem is in 1300. When turkey spawn they found a citie and you have no possibility to win.

Not really hard till 1300, if I get it right? If you turtled, then you've got it the right way (core is uncollapsable). Low production is meant to stop the Byzantines from being a military powerhouse.

Arab : Good balancing. You can do the first quest in the first war. After i got contantinople for a way in europe for sending misionnary in europe. My main problem is the stability.

That is good news.

 

[TijBonaparte]

My problem is the turkey spawn. The objective is control every city in anatolia in 1300 but turkey found a city in 1300. I try to found a citie on ankyra but the turkey found sinope.

 

[blizzrd]

The UHV check is done before the Ottomans can found a city.

 

[Jusos2108]

Bulgarie : I dont know if it only me but i find the game too easy. I finish with the double point of my rival. I got 4 vassal(all volonter). In the first turn the 3 citie on byzantium. I finish with 9 citie.

I totally agree with this, though strengthening Byzantine should help, as Micbic said.

Byzantium : Not really hard. They have low production. The main problem is in 1300. When turkey spawn they found a citie and you have no possibility to win.

In my game the UHV triggered, since Ottomans founded the city in 1300, so it didn't count. However, the date could be changed to 1295 to make it certain.

Arab : Good balancing. You can do the first quest in the first war. After i got contantinople for a way in europe for sending misionnary in europe. My main problem is the stability.

I have to disagree with this. IMO Arabia way too easy and a wonder-factory. The UHVs should be harder, allthough it is hard to come up with a good Arabian UHV condition.

Maybe there could be a european civ only tech which would allow some of the European based wonders, since it is kind of odd to see, for example, Notre Dame in Jerusalem and this happens alot. This would also slightly weaken the arabian stability (wonders boost stability).

 

[wolfigor]

Should it be possible to conquer Rome (the state of the church, declare war on the Pope)?

In the current setup is (by design) not possible to declare war against Rome.
But in my latest game Rome collapsed (unknown reasons) and becoming independent I was able to DoW and conquer.

If we really want Rome to be unconquerable, shouldn't avoid any possible collapse for it as well?

p.s.
I did not check if non-christian or non-catholic civs can declare war against the Pope... to be honest I never considered attacking Rome until my last game using the Germans.