RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[3Miro]

I think you are confusing this with something else. I don't remember any discussions about stone and fish. My suggestion was to move the city one tile NW and swap it with the wheat. Thus, the wheat would be moved one tile SE. At the time no one posed any strong objections; just one person said it might be better to simply rename Ephesus as Izmir upon capture, but you objected because it would be a pain to code. After that short discussion, I've mentioned this occasionally, but I've never received any response. If you desire leaving things the way they are, that's fine; I'll drop the topic. I just don't want to be left hanging because you initially seemed to agree with me, but it was never implemented. If I misread what you wrote, please accept my apologies; I won't bother you anymore about this.

I see now. It wasn't stone, it was fish. Two discussions got mingled and confused.

I can do both the city and the name, I only have to see if this will potentially change the Ottoman situation. The city may be too close to their first capita.

 

[Science Rules]

Fair enough.

 

[Ambreville]

This thread post #5308.

You read and reply to my posts selectively. You are not concerned with the quality of the mod, you simply want people to talk to you and pay attention to your ideas.

If I didn't like the mod and didn't care about its quality, I wouldn't be here at all. It is hard to suggest anything when the door is slammed in your face.

I care about the mod and its quality. The best way to be productive is to ignore all the personal attacks.

An even more productive way is to provide a valid answer when one is indeed available. This whole line of discussion would not be taking place if you had. What you call a personal attack is the direct result of your behavior. It sounds to me you didn't want to answer despite the opportunity. That's just not the same thing.

As for the SVN, it is always filled with more bugs than the released beta, it has more problems with balance and it always has incomplete features. SVN is for modders and people that feel adventurous.

I wasn't interested in SVN (was that last part addressed to me?)

From your post #5308

I read and consider ALL posts!
If I were to respond in details to all the posts, nothing would ever be done.

Obviously, you took the time to answer. It would have indeed saved you and me a lot of time if you had answered the original question in the first place. The Turk (sp?) did it for you.

 

[3Miro]

Tile (88,4) needs to become viable for city settlement (which it is currently not) and tile (87,4) should become unviable for city settlement, making it mud/marsh would solve that, me thinks...
Also one more food resource between Domyat and Cairo I think is in order, as currently the bread basket of the world is a bit sparse IMO.

I has missed the mud on 88 and 87, it is fixed now.

I added more flood plains, but I am worried that it may be too much.

 

[3Miro]

@AmbrevilleL your original question was about Calais. I replied that it is flipping due to the Norman invasion of England and you noted that this is ahistorical. At this point I had to do the research and check for myself, read historical references, look at maps and consider gameplay effects, thus I did not write an immediate repose. Before I could make any changes, you took offense at my lack of response. I replied that I take all suggestions into consideration, including your one. This should have closed the discussion and you should have waited for another Beta release to see if I forgot or decided against your suggestion. Instead, you took further offense, which I decided to simply ignore.

If you have any further personal attacks, I will ignore you again.

If you have further suggestions and comments on the mod, please share them with us.

 

[Ambreville]

@AmbrevilleL your original question was about Calais. I replied that it is flipping due to the Norman invasion of England and you noted that this is ahistorical. At this point I had to do the research and check for myself, read historical references, look at maps and consider gameplay effects, thus I did not write an immediate repose. Before I could make any changes, you took offense at my lack of response. I replied that I take all suggestions into consideration, including your one. This should have closed the discussion and you should have waited for another Beta release to see if I forgot or decided against your suggestion. Instead, you took further offense, which I decided to simply ignore.

You know, this is pretty contrived. You could have simply said "We'll look into that Calais issue at some point--check again later." It's unfortunate you didn't. Your expectations as to the result of your choice to remain quiet are just plain stunning.

If you have any further personal attacks, I will ignore you again.

Yes, you've been doing an outstanding job at ignoring me. Please don't stop!

If you have further suggestions and comments on the mod, please share them with us.

I was trying to do just that, mind you.

 

[The Turk]

Ok, yes the Calais thing did annoy the hell out of me too, but know that 3Miro has fixed it, lets please move on. He has a lot on a his plate, as there are a lot of loose ends in RFC Europe, that he is working hard to tie up.

 

[Wessel V1]

I have to agree with 3Miro here. Just look at the number of posts in the playtesting feedback thread. Many people have entered that thread, and many more have posted in the subforum as a whole. With only one man in charge of the project, it is hard to take time to reply to them all. And let's be honest, 673 replies is a fair number.

Second of all, some months ago the threads were really messed up with all kinds of useless OT-discussions. Even if there was a post to be taken into account, it would get buried as some users had to make their point about some regions or religions being different. This has changed, but it takes time to read everything. For example, I read all posts every day but sometimes without much attention, because of college or whatever.

Third of all, people have different ways to express themselves. Some post rarely, but make good points when they post. Others post very frequently but post just whenever they feel like doing that, with a lack of general contribution as a result. With funny exceptions I prefer the first, so give someone time to reply whenever necessary. You can't just send letters to Coca Cola and expect them to reply to each one.

And last but not least, some people don't have Englishspeaking roots. I don't, and you can see that in the way I write my posts. I know people who have the right intentions but appear to be indifferent or even rude because they cannot find the right words to express themselves at that point. Let's just all assume that we do have the right intentions, it makes discussion easier. It took me quite some time to write this post, and hopefully less time for you to read it. Just take it into account, I hope we can enjoy playing and updating this mod in the future.

 

[Ambreville]

Ok, yes the Calais thing did annoy the hell out of me too, but know that 3Miro has fixed it, lets please move on. He has a lot on a his plate, as there are a lot of loose ends in RFC Europe, that he is working hard to tie up.

I do appreciate that you took it upon yourself to update me on this. Best of luck to the team for a job well done.

 

[Andrrew]

Hi all,

Playing as Spain, the Copernicus Observatory is not working (no free specialists).

You can check the screenshot: http://imageshack.us/f/97/copernicus.jpg/

 

[Wessel V1]

Are you sure those are towns? I see 5 commerce tiles next to the river but judging the date (1420 AD) they might as well be villages... It's not too uncommon that these produce 5 commerce.

 

[3Miro]

Hi all,

Playing as Spain, the Copernicus Observatory is not working (no free specialists).

You can check the screenshot: http://imageshack.us/f/97/copernicus.jpg/

Copernicus Observatory gives you specialists per Town not City. This is the ability of the National Park from BtS (with towns instead of Forest Preserves).

 

[Andrrew]

Copernicus Observatory gives you specialists per Town not City. This is the ability of the National Park from BtS (with towns instead of Forest Preserves).

My bad. Anyway, here are my observations:

-Foundation of protestantism is in the wrong place in the tech tree
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7346/protestant.jpg

-I still think ottomans are too weak, they could hardly capture Constantinople, and still conquered nothing of Balkan or even Hungary.

-Why does ships die from plague? I don't remember this from RFC.

-The AI should somehow value less far away barbarian cities. The Austrians captured some barb (former Kiev) city in the far far east with their scouting knights, which destabilized them and they collapsed.


Overall, I had an excellent game with the Spanish, a little bit too easy maybe but that might be because my RFC experience. I captured 2 Cordoban cities with my starting units, after that it was just emphasising science.

Well done, it became an excellent mod! (Last time I checked was 1-2 years ago.)

 

[MessageMan]

you can see that in the way I write my posts.

Not really. There's only one or two things I would change in your post which has more to do with stylistic preference rather than erroneous grammar. Same goes with previous posts.

 

[3Miro]

My bad. Anyway, here are my observations:

-Foundation of protestantism is in the wrong place in the tech tree
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7346/protestant.jpg

Cant be helped for now. Protestantism does get founded with the Printing Press, but not in the regular way, so we had to put it at the Industrial Tech.

-I still think ottomans are too weak, they could hardly capture Constantinople, and still conquered nothing of Balkan or even Hungary.

The Ottomans alway capture Constantinople in my games, they are coded so that it is very hard for them to not capture the city. The rest depends on the strength of Bulgaria and the Indies in the area.

-Why does ships die from plague? I don't remember this from RFC.

Plague is much stronger in RFCE.

-The AI should somehow value less far away barbarian cities. The Austrians captured some barb (former Kiev) city in the far far east with their scouting knights, which destabilized them and they collapsed.

Are you sure you are playing the latest version. The AI ignores far away barb and Indy cities and has been doing so for quite some time. Austria can capture the city from Kiev though, if they happen to be at war. Also, one city cannot cause an Empire to collapse, they must have been doing pretty bad before that. It is far more likely that a city would flip to the Indies than for an Empire to completely collapse.

 

[Andrrew]

Cant be helped for now. Protestantism does get founded with the Printing Press, but not in the regular way, so we had to put it at the Industrial Tech.

The Ottomans alway capture Constantinople in my games, they are coded so that it is very hard for them to not capture the city. The rest depends on the strength of Bulgaria and the Indies in the area.

Plague is much stronger in RFCE.

Are you sure you are playing the latest version. The AI ignores far away barb and Indy cities and has been doing so for quite some time. Austria can capture the city from Kiev though, if they happen to be at war. Also, one city cannot cause an Empire to collapse, they must have been doing pretty bad before that. It is far more likely that a city would flip to the Indies than for an Empire to completely collapse.

Yep the latest, Beta 11 from the sourceforge page.

Here's the screen:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7482/barbcity.jpg

You can see that the French also captured a city.

 

[merijn_v1]

Those things can happen. If you have ever looked in one of the OMG, look what happened thread, you'll see many more civs in strange places.

On the protestant thing, we had it first spawn at printing press, but it didn't work well, because it's coded as 3Miro said. We moved it up the tech tree, so the code works fine. It's only a minro aesthetic thing.

 

[3Miro]

Yep the latest, Beta 11 from the sourceforge page.

Here's the screen:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7482/barbcity.jpg

You can see that the French also captured a city.

I'll check again, but this should only happen if Poland or someone like that held the city and the French conquered it from them.

 

[Opera]

Re: Protestantism on Industrial Revolution

It may not be pretty but couldn't you leave it on Printing Press and 'intercept' the regular founding routine of the dll and fire the not-so-regular one instead? That way, PP would show it founds Protestantism.

 

[rock_star]

Re: Protestantism on Industrial Revolution

It may not be pretty but couldn't you leave it on Printing Press and 'intercept' the regular founding routine of the dll and fire the not-so-regular one instead? That way, PP would show it founds Protestantism.

The UHV description should be mended to inform the n00b players that Germany must be the first to PP to found Protestantism if it can't be attached to the proper tech in the tech tree.

I'll check again, but this should only happen if Poland or someone like that held the city and the French conquered it from them.

Burgundy captured the Tatar/Mongol city of Sarai in my Muscovy game, too. I think the AI is heavily inclined to attack barbs whenever it has the chance, even if those barbs are in a city the AI shouldn't be interested in.

On the flip side of the AI front, they seem to be doing better in this release:

Spoiler :

The Portuguese are actually settling the western isles. Soon they may even settle Morrocco. You can also see the Ukraine never fell to the Mongols - this is the second straight game I've played where the Rus' have staved off the Golden Horde. The Ottomans shipped settlers and units to the northern shores of the Black Sea in my Muscovy game. If only we could convince the Norse, Swedes and the British to use naval invasion fleets like this, we may actually have an AI that can challenge the human. (It would also be nice to see the Norse settle Iceland and the Brits settle all of Ireland, or at the very least build Belfast, as the colonisation of Ireland - especially Ulster - were important historical events.)

I can't wait to see how much tougher the AI becomes with the next release's tweaks. Seeing them start to use ships effectively is encouraging, though. Keep up the great work!