RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[Opera]

Okay, I managed to dig up the save.

Crusade; Venice stole it to target Byzantium... Except Byzantium collapsed the same turn, so it has no capital anymore (which is what the code tries to access to).

 

[3Miro]

Okay, I managed to dig up the save.

Crusade; Venice stole it to target Byzantium... Except Byzantium collapsed the same turn, so it has no capital anymore (which is what the code tries to access to).

I see the problem and I will fix the issue for the next release.

 

[amrod]

Hi, the amber resource graphics are flashing (parts of it flash in black) on my laptop (intel 945 integrated graphics). I have a screenshot (of the black parts) if it helps.

 

[amrod]

Also, I didn't find it in the civilopedia - my galleys move twice more in ocean tiles, I'm not sure
if it's general or for the norse only (haven't tried the other nations by sea yet). Could be mentioned somewhere. Also, in the Norse UHV text, it could be emphasized that Vinland is a project (I believed at first that I need to found the city)

 

[AbsintheRed]

Hi, the amber resource graphics are flashing (parts of it flash in black) on my laptop (intel 945 integrated graphics). I have a screenshot (of the black parts) if it helps.

Post your screenshot, I didn't saw this in my games

Also, I didn't find it in the civilopedia - my galleys move twice more in ocean tiles, I'm not sure
if it's general or for the norse only (haven't tried the other nations by sea yet). Could be mentioned somewhere. Also, in the Norse UHV text, it could be emphasized that Vinland is a project (I believed at first that I need to found the city)

In RFC and all of its modmods, all naval units (for all civs) move twice as much on ocean tiles

 

[amrod]

Post your screenshot, I didn't saw this in my games

Attached the screenshot, hope it works. It shows the black patches - can't show the flashing

In RFC and all of its modmods, all naval units (for all civs) move twice as much on ocean tiles

Great! Could this be included somehow in the pedia - or is there just I'm dumb?

 

[Sian]

hmm ... could it by any chance be that the graphic and the fact that its on a hill doesn't mesh proberly?

 

[merijn_v1]

Great! Could this be included somehow in the pedia - or is there just I'm dumb?

It is said in one of the hints. (the tiny messages when you load a game)

 

[Arquebusier]

I think England is too easy...i managed the conquering france about 10 turns before the deadline while also building almost all of the wonders from the 1200-1500/1550 timeframe...before progressing to building enough colonies by 1570....not got to reaching industrial age yet but looking like a foregone conclusion as i have plenty of excess troops and a huge research rate. Think this may be down to the English UP being overpowered but also the colonies situation may be exacerbated by a seeming UP Spain....maybe making the English UP only on Great Britain might be a good solution for them...not really playtested Spain enough on recent versions to suggest improvements for them so i might give that a go next.
I also got 4 Keshiks on Austrian 3rd turn when i playtested them.....this made conquering Hungary a lot easier i.e. i could do much of it pretty quickly before first plague which made my game pretty much a diplomacy game once i got stability sorted.
I'm not sure whether the keshiks are intended or not but if they are they are probably way op...maybe i just got very lucky though.

 

[3Miro]

I think England is too easy...i managed the conquering france about 10 turns before the deadline while also building almost all of the wonders from the 1200-1500/1550 timeframe...before progressing to building enough colonies by 1570....not got to reaching industrial age yet but looking like a foregone conclusion as i have plenty of excess troops and a huge research rate. Think this may be down to the English UP being overpowered but also the colonies situation may be exacerbated by a seeming UP Spain....maybe making the English UP only on Great Britain might be a good solution for them...not really playtested Spain enough on recent versions to suggest improvements for them so i might give that a go next.
I also got 4 Keshiks on Austrian 3rd turn when i playtested them.....this made conquering Hungary a lot easier i.e. i could do much of it pretty quickly before first plague which made my game pretty much a diplomacy game once i got stability sorted.
I'm not sure whether the keshiks are intended or not but if they are they are probably way op...maybe i just got very lucky though.

We can add some penalties to the English human player, since getting two Empires (England + France) is really powerful.

The Austrian Keshiks were just some Mongols that happened to be nearby and then convert to you upon flip. Barbarian units in the surrounding areas always flip to you right after you spawn.

 

[Arquebusier]

yep just lucky then

 

[AbsintheRed]

The Austrian Keshiks were just some Mongols that happened to be nearby and then convert to you upon flip. Barbarian units in the surrounding areas always flip to you right after you spawn.

Shouldn't we forbid converting special units on civ spawn?
At least Keshiks and Seljuks, since they spawn in bigger stacks
Makes new civs start really unbalaced if they manage to get an advantage like this

 

[AbsintheRed]

Also, I remembered another similar issue
When a city flips to a new owner, the units in it should be removed to the nearest tile of their civ
The new owner can get 2 defensive units in it, that's usual bts behaviour IIRC
If the city was independent a few units can switch sides, but max 3-4 units or something like this, the rest disbanded.

I remember getting a huge stack (30+ units) on the dutch spawn, because germany kept it's invasion army in one of the flipping cities
The game was effectively ruined

 

[3Miro]

Also, I remembered another similar issue
When a city flips to a new owner, the units in it should be removed to the nearest tile of their civ
The new owner can get 2 defensive units in it, that's usual bts behaviour IIRC
If the city was independent a few units can switch sides, but max 3-4 units or something like this, the rest disbanded.

I remember getting a huge stack (30+ units) on the dutch spawn, because germany kept it's invasion army in one of the flipping cities
The game was effectively ruined

There are several different flips. A city can flip due to culture as per BtS mechanics, AFIK this has not changed for RFC or RFCE.

A city can flip on a nation spawn, then a lot of units flip as well. This is usually done to prevent exploit (i.e. wait with a huge stack and then kill the newly spawned civ). I think we should leave this one alone.

A city can flip on nation respawn, then this is a lot like BtS mechanics.

A city can declare independence. I think we should disband some units in this case. I have been thinking about doing this for quite some time now. I don't want to see a massive Indy stack.

 

[Sian]

well, i once lost a Bulgarian (1 or 2 versions ago) game due to a city spontaniously declaring independence (had stability ~+5) and the indies getting the stack i had built to capture Constantinople since my rush on it failed (although i managed to get the rest of the area)

 

[3Miro]

well, i once lost a Bulgarian (1 or 2 versions ago) game due to a city spontaniously declaring independence (had stability ~+5) and the indies getting the stack i had built to capture Constantinople since my rush on it failed (although i managed to get the rest of the area)

You shouldn't be losing cities at +5 (or + anything). Only negative stability may result in independence.

 

[amrod]

A city can flip on a nation spawn, then a lot of units flip as well. This is usually done to prevent exploit (i.e. wait with a huge stack and then kill the newly spawned civ). I think we should leave this one alone.

I think I also saw Byzantines keeping a laaarge stack of cataphracts in one city that was going to flip. (Of course this way they don't stand a chance...)
Maybe somehow the AI could be made to not keep so many units in a city destined to flip? Or maybe even to not keep too many units in any one city? (I heard there were other problems with large stacks anyway).

As a side note, I imagine a feature in which units would remember their origin cities (I think I've seen that in some mod; and certainly in Civ1 ). This way, when a city/region flips/revolts, the units from that region would have a high chance to switch sides (even if not in that region), while units from far away would have lower chance. Just think about it - why would units from a different region and maybe even ethnicity want to join a foreign region and culture? (But then, units that are too far from their origins could cause more upkeep or unhappiness or whatever). (Though I realize this feature would make the game more complex, and also slower)

 

[Ambreville]

As a side note, I imagine a feature in which units would remember their origin cities (I think I've seen that in some mod; and certainly in Civ1 ). This way, when a city/region flips/revolts, the units from that region would have a high chance to switch sides (even if not in that region), while units from far away would have lower chance. Just think about it - why would units from a different region and maybe even ethnicity want to join a foreign region and culture? (But then, units that are too far from their origins could cause more upkeep or unhappiness or whatever). (Though I realize this feature would make the game more complex, and also slower)

I'm with you on that one. This makes more sense.

 

[Caliom]

A city can flip on a nation spawn, then a lot of units flip as well. This is usually done to prevent exploit (i.e. wait with a huge stack and then kill the newly spawned civ). I think we should leave this one alone.

You can simply wait with your units outside the flip zone.

I too think that a general limit to the number of flipping units would be good. Remaining units should either disband or return to the capitol of their owner.

I'm also pondering if some guaranteed turns of peace wouldn't help the AI upon spawn. In the first 5-8 turns after spawn noone can declare war on the newcomer. But the new civ can. So that Bulgaria or the Ottomans still can attack on their first turn.

Austria for example does realy bad when they ar at war from the first turn with hungary. Thats because their land is totaly unimproved. They have no routes that give an advantage in combat and their workers hide in their cities leaving the land unimproved for the next 100 years.
And that would also prevent human players from killing new civs right from the start.

 

[3Miro]

You can simply wait with your units outside the flip zone.

You can, but by the time you wait for the flip and then start moving into the foreign territory, you will be dealing with a fortified city, as opposed to a defenseless stack of units.

I too think that a general limit to the number of flipping units would be good. Remaining units should either disband or return to the capitol of their owner.

I will look into the flip code to see what can be done about it.

I'm also pondering if some guaranteed turns of peace wouldn't help the AI upon spawn. In the first 5-8 turns after spawn noone can declare war on the newcomer. But the new civ can. So that Bulgaria or the Ottomans still can attack on their first turn.

Bulgaria and the Ottomans start at war and this is the best for the AI. Especially the Ottomans need an aggressive start.

Austria for example does realy bad when they ar at war from the first turn with hungary. Thats because their land is totaly unimproved. They have no routes that give an advantage in combat and their workers hide in their cities leaving the land unimproved for the next 100 years.
And that would also prevent human players from killing new civs right from the start.

Austria is a good example of a problematic spawn. I will think of ways to improve that and hopefully give them more of a fighting chance.