jessiecat
Divine Monarch
The UHV maps are not that old. Most of them are still accurate. This is the French one. Basically just west of the Rhine and the Alps and north of the Pyrennees.
RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread
- Thread starter st.lucifer
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The UHV maps are not that old. Most of them are still accurate. This is the French one. Basically just west of the Rhine and the Alps and north of the Pyrennees.
I had both scotish cities in my England game, Edinburgh is in a good position, its a waste to raze it.
If Calais exists, Amsterdam is better on the sulphur then on the dye, its impossible to get the cultural control of the western clam. In general, there are enough resources for 2 cities, the best location depends on the surounding cities.
Prag is in a very bad location, it lacks food and can only work farms and windmills. 1 tile NE is a LOT better, you get food and a lot more resources (and lesser peaks)
Cities on a river a far superoir then others (traderoutes, health, warf, levee). Razing Luebeck and rebuilding it 1 tile west gives a very good city.
Never cared for Milan as Burgundy, there are enough good cities along the rhine valley.
The bonus buildings for rivers come late, so its not that important for Burgundy. Dijon in place still makes a very good city.
River and sea access are very valuable, especialy in late game. Coastal trade can get incredible high, especialy with Magellans Vovage. (7 Trade Routes, each 7-10
) Most coastal cities get more commerce from trade routes then from worked tiles.The problem with city razing is the stability penality and the very expansive settlers, so i often avoid to raze cities.
To the new music:
The hungarian one is great!
But i dont like the new title music. Its not only the music but also the volume. It starts very silent, so i have to turn my speakers to maximum so i can hear anything. Later on it gets very loud, so i have to turn them back if i dont want to wake up the neighbours. Thats not suited for a title music, i hope you can find something else (i replaced it with old RFC title song already)
Wessel V1
Emperor
Thanks for clarifying, that's exactly what I thought! I like the new music too, for the reason Feyaria mentions; I think it is in the spirit of the Middle Ages so that it's only good that the music becomes louder.
3Miro
Deity
I should make a poll to see if people like the new music or not. We now have 2 votes for and 1 against.
How about: Anyone or the first to discover civil engneering get +2 to +5 stability, or reduce some civic penalties, or give a + stability wonder. Or no penalty in civic changes.
I really don't follow how this relates to civil engineering. I will point out that there are temporary civic bonuses and penalties in RFC when you discover a new technology, and I think the niche you are trying to come up with would be filled by that. I'm not sure if those are already implemented in RFCE though.
3Miro
Deity
In RFC some tech will provide a stability boost and others a stability penalty. That seems to cover Civil Engineering and others like that.
This, however, has not been implemented yet.
This, however, has not been implemented yet.
Germany:
First 2 UHVs are no problem, Burgundy was exapnding south and Austria, Portugal and Moscow vassaled peacefuly
But 3rd UHV is bugged, it should be in 1540, but in 1560 it still says not yet. (i have a save from 1538 if needed)
I have already double the military of the second, building Muskets and Landsknechts in almost all cities.
Another thing is the UP. I should get a 25% reduction on military production, but Landsknecht costs 112
instead of the 100 listed in civilopedia. Looks more like an 12,5% increase.
More from the game:
Burgundy is tech leader with a lot of cities, including Toulouse, Marseilles, Barcelona and 3 in the Holy Land. In all my last games, Burgund seems more stable then France, and the two are almost never waring against each other. Burgundy also built most of the wonders. Burgundy and France were the only civs to switch to Protestantism, and soon after this, pope declaresa crusade against Burgundy. I thought this problem was fixed?
Plague is a big problem for the AIs, they seem to never replace died workers. In 1467, my vasall Austria has only 1 Worker for 3 cities, the iron and horse near Wien are not improved. The only Austrian Worker is changing an cottage to a workshop (stupid AI....)
Kazan and Samara not flipping to Moscow at the start leads to some random civ cpature them with a scouting unit, in this game it was Hungary and Spain.
All civs love each other too much now, never had so many at friendly, even orthodox byzanz was pleased. Even independents are liked by AI leaders, you get penalties for attacking friends and they refuse going war against indies (couldnt betray our close friends)
First 2 UHVs are no problem, Burgundy was exapnding south and Austria, Portugal and Moscow vassaled peacefuly
But 3rd UHV is bugged, it should be in 1540, but in 1560 it still says not yet. (i have a save from 1538 if needed)
I have already double the military of the second, building Muskets and Landsknechts in almost all cities.
Another thing is the UP. I should get a 25% reduction on military production, but Landsknecht costs 112
instead of the 100 listed in civilopedia. Looks more like an 12,5% increase.More from the game:
Burgundy is tech leader with a lot of cities, including Toulouse, Marseilles, Barcelona and 3 in the Holy Land. In all my last games, Burgund seems more stable then France, and the two are almost never waring against each other. Burgundy also built most of the wonders. Burgundy and France were the only civs to switch to Protestantism, and soon after this, pope declaresa crusade against Burgundy. I thought this problem was fixed?
Plague is a big problem for the AIs, they seem to never replace died workers. In 1467, my vasall Austria has only 1 Worker for 3 cities, the iron and horse near Wien are not improved. The only Austrian Worker is changing an cottage to a workshop (stupid AI....)
Kazan and Samara not flipping to Moscow at the start leads to some random civ cpature them with a scouting unit, in this game it was Hungary and Spain.
All civs love each other too much now, never had so many at friendly, even orthodox byzanz was pleased. Even independents are liked by AI leaders, you get penalties for attacking friends and they refuse going war against indies (couldnt betray our close friends)
3Miro
Deity
The German UP only kicks in after some tech (it say which one).
The costs in the Civilopedia are nowhere near accurate. Remember that each nations has unique modifiers, so no two nations have units that cost the same.
The German UP means that units after some tech get cheaper than they were before and overall German units will cost less than a nations that spawns roughly the same time with somewhat the same situation.
Example in RFC: the Greeks in RFC have a large boost to the number of GP they can summon, however, Americans pump GPs faster.
Burgundy held Jerusalem and that is why the Pope wanted it. I should force the Crusades to become obsolete after some year.
On the Worker: were the unimproved tiles close to an enemy border. The AI refuses to build improvements right next to the enemy border and that is regardless of the number of workers that it has.
I will see if I can make the AI want those random barbs less and also increase the "hatred" in the game.
The costs in the Civilopedia are nowhere near accurate. Remember that each nations has unique modifiers, so no two nations have units that cost the same.
The German UP means that units after some tech get cheaper than they were before and overall German units will cost less than a nations that spawns roughly the same time with somewhat the same situation.
Example in RFC: the Greeks in RFC have a large boost to the number of GP they can summon, however, Americans pump GPs faster.
Burgundy held Jerusalem and that is why the Pope wanted it. I should force the Crusades to become obsolete after some year.
On the Worker: were the unimproved tiles close to an enemy border. The AI refuses to build improvements right next to the enemy border and that is regardless of the number of workers that it has.
I will see if I can make the AI want those random barbs less and also increase the "hatred" in the game.
Possibly you could obsolete crusades when the reformation happens, as that seems to be the opportunity to have a new type of religious conflict.
Along the same note, you should disable civilization respawns until a certain time. Maybe at the advent of Printing press (with the reformation) or with Liberalism. I think this point has been discussed before.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
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- 4,878
I agree with kbk. Right now, if you squash the Arabians (as Byzantines) or French (as Burgundy), all the indy cities which have never had any culture other than indy will flip to a respawn. (in fact, France respawned 2 turns after I conquered Paris, with 2 other cities).
The Byzantines really need an extra UP to make gameplay less tedious. As I pointed out before, after each declaration of independence and each reconquest, your expansion/economy/city stability all take hits, which ends up being a death spiral. I propose giving the Byzantines a big boost in stability (e.g. 10-15 points) with each reconquest of a city that has Byzantine culture. This will allow them to eventually become stable and don't have to conquer back cities. Right now all I can build is research in Antioch, Tarsus, Tyre and Jerusalem, and even Iconium flipped after my Orthodox Church was built (after 400 years)! After all, if you don't count the Cordobans, the Byzantine Empire was the most stable and powerful empire in Europe until Charlemagne, and the age of the Macedonian emperors could truly be called a golden age. The current game play does not reflect this.
Another solution would be to allow Code of Laws to enable a project that reflects Justinian's codification of Roman law. This project/wonder could either give a massive boost in stability (e.g. 50 points), or make declaration of independence much less likely. Since only Byzantium starts with Code of Laws, this will be historically accurate (i.e. France, Rome, Burgundy won't be able to build it), and Justinian's reign (in the 600's) would coincide with finishing of this project. (Of course the AI may chose to build something else and suffer the consequences.)
Nicaea is a misnomer (it's too far away from its historical position). May I suggest renaming it to Dorylaeum.
The Byzantines really need an extra UP to make gameplay less tedious. As I pointed out before, after each declaration of independence and each reconquest, your expansion/economy/city stability all take hits, which ends up being a death spiral. I propose giving the Byzantines a big boost in stability (e.g. 10-15 points) with each reconquest of a city that has Byzantine culture. This will allow them to eventually become stable and don't have to conquer back cities. Right now all I can build is research in Antioch, Tarsus, Tyre and Jerusalem, and even Iconium flipped after my Orthodox Church was built (after 400 years)! After all, if you don't count the Cordobans, the Byzantine Empire was the most stable and powerful empire in Europe until Charlemagne, and the age of the Macedonian emperors could truly be called a golden age. The current game play does not reflect this.
Another solution would be to allow Code of Laws to enable a project that reflects Justinian's codification of Roman law. This project/wonder could either give a massive boost in stability (e.g. 50 points), or make declaration of independence much less likely. Since only Byzantium starts with Code of Laws, this will be historically accurate (i.e. France, Rome, Burgundy won't be able to build it), and Justinian's reign (in the 600's) would coincide with finishing of this project. (Of course the AI may chose to build something else and suffer the consequences.)
Nicaea is a misnomer (it's too far away from its historical position). May I suggest renaming it to Dorylaeum.
My fault on german UP, it works. Germany has a +50% modifier, and 150 - 25% = 112.5, just what i had in costs. The only problem is, that the costs in the civiliopedia are others then in the game.
A lot of civs has a 150 modifier for units, why not change all costs and give them 100.. too much work? Maybe for the final version, when balancing is finished.
I also took a look at all the balance things, i understand most of them: old civs like Byzanz and Arabia have higher costs, new civs like Sweden and Dutch have lower costs. Thats very good.
But why is the culture for Turkey, Sweden and Dutch lower? The Dutch need double the culture for a border pop, why? Also, different costs for units and buildings is supported by the UI. But not with culture. With dutch, i used artist specialist with Divine Monarchy (+6
), i reads 0/+6 in the culture window, next round there is 3.5/+6.
That realy looks like a bug (i think i already reported this in my dutch feedback a week ago)
Different building costs are ok, but i dont unterstand it with culture (Only double culture for Rome is needed, else the Byzanz UHV wouldnt be a challenge)
Next thing are the AI-AI relations:
Arabia-Cordoba and Spain-Portugal being natural allies is understandable, but why have France-Burgundy the same +8 modifier with each other? In older versions i remember that France often conquered Burgund, havent seen this happening in my last games, no wonder if they are friendly from the start.
And at last: there is still the 3rd german UHV thats not working, should be in 1540, but it says not yet even after it, i played till 1562.
Btw, i realy like that the german UHV is finished before Holland spawns, so you can use their land for 2 good cities.
On the workers:
No danger for workers here, the AI rather builds some farms and Mines instead of improving its iron,horse and salt. Its over 300 years after spawn! And the single worker rather replaces a cottage with a workshop... working the mined iron would be far superior then this....
But it almost looks like today Austria
A lot of civs has a 150 modifier for units, why not change all costs and give them 100.. too much work? Maybe for the final version, when balancing is finished.
I also took a look at all the balance things, i understand most of them: old civs like Byzanz and Arabia have higher costs, new civs like Sweden and Dutch have lower costs. Thats very good.
But why is the culture for Turkey, Sweden and Dutch lower? The Dutch need double the culture for a border pop, why? Also, different costs for units and buildings is supported by the UI. But not with culture. With dutch, i used artist specialist with Divine Monarchy (+6
), i reads 0/+6 in the culture window, next round there is 3.5/+6. That realy looks like a bug (i think i already reported this in my dutch feedback a week ago)
Different building costs are ok, but i dont unterstand it with culture (Only double culture for Rome is needed, else the Byzanz UHV wouldnt be a challenge)
Next thing are the AI-AI relations:
Arabia-Cordoba and Spain-Portugal being natural allies is understandable, but why have France-Burgundy the same +8 modifier with each other? In older versions i remember that France often conquered Burgund, havent seen this happening in my last games, no wonder if they are friendly from the start.
And at last: there is still the 3rd german UHV thats not working, should be in 1540, but it says not yet even after it, i played till 1562.
Spoiler :
On the workers:
Spoiler :
But it almost looks like today Austria
Frankly, my strategy with Byzantium has been to let the cities flip to independents. Anything out of my core area I would drain for resources by say, mass producing workers and not investing in infrastructure. Then, when they flipped, I'd raze them. This would then require a war with Arabia over some of the Anatolian peninsula near the time requirement of the 2nd UHV.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
The problem is that you cannot raze these cities due to your culture there. If you play in Emperor and allow the Arabians to survive, they'll rapidly outtech you and it will be impossible to recapture Aleppo or Antioch.
What exactly does the Byzantine core consist of? (I thought Iconium was part of it and therefore starting to build walls/church there)
What exactly does the Byzantine core consist of? (I thought Iconium was part of it and therefore starting to build walls/church there)
3Miro
Deity
The civilopedia is disjoin from the civ that is viewing it. Connecting them is (next to) impossible.
There are 27 civilizations and many units and techs, guess which one is easier to modify. Eventually we may fix that, but for right now it is too much pointless work.
I also took a look at all the balance things, i understand most of them: old civs like Byzanz and Arabia have higher costs, new civs like Sweden and Dutch have lower costs. Thats very good.
But why is the culture for Turkey, Sweden and Dutch lower? The Dutch need double the culture for a border pop, why? Also, different costs for units and buildings is supported by the UI. But not with culture. With dutch, i used artist specialist with Divine Monarchy (+6
That realy looks like a bug (i think i already reported this in my dutch feedback a week ago)
Different building costs are ok, but i dont unterstand it with culture (Only double culture for Rome is needed, else the Byzanz UHV wouldnt be a challenge)
This is a bug. Culture works slightly differently then other modifiers ( unit production modifier changes the cost of units, culture modifier changes the culture created). Fixed for the next version. (Thanks)
Don't know. I think they were fighting too much and eventually both were collapsing. I have to check with the others on why it is set like that. The Arabia - Cordoba is there to give them the economy benefits of Open Borders and trade (since others are less likely to trade with Muslims) and the others are trying to instigate wars.
And at last: there is still the 3rd german UHV thats not working, should be in 1540, but it says not yet even after it, i played till 1562.
Btw, i realy like that the german UHV is finished before Holland spawns, so you can use their land for 2 good cities.Spoiler :
Found a bug and fixed it. I hope it is the only one. (Thanks)
On the workers:
No danger for workers here, the AI rather builds some farms and Mines instead of improving its iron,horse and salt. Its over 300 years after spawn! And the single worker rather replaces a cottage with a workshop... working the mined iron would be far superior then this....Spoiler :
But it almost looks like today Austria
So we got it right, what's the problem?
The resources are 2 tiles from unfriendly border and for some reason the AI flags those as "do not approach". I don't know if I will be able to find and fix the bug until the next version. (or if I fix it, then wouldn't the AI take advantage of the undefended workers)
3Miro
Deity
The core is Greece. I am not sure if Nicaea is included in it.
The original UHV for the Byzantines involved simple survival and there was no issue of the cities going independent. Check out the Faith Points post, it could help. We may also move Imperialism earlier for the Byzantines.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
Germany always collapses in emperor soon after they spawn. The reason is that all those barbs (I counted no less than 12 axemen, 18 horse archers and even some spearmen spread out all the way from the Rhine to the Ukraine) don't flip to them, and they attack the weakest civ preferentially. Maybe the flip area for Germany needs to be a little bigger.
BurnEmDown
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 1,718
In my game as Spain France and Burgundy were good allies until I took out France. 200 years later they respawned and becaome Burgundy's vassal.
operafantom
Chieftain
Something is wrong with the first Hungarian UHV: I had the most territory and it just said I didn't have it 
. Can that be the barb's territory or the independents'?
. Can that be the barb's territory or the independents'?
Wessel V1
Emperor
A small comment on the settler maps. Although I'm not colour-blind, I find it hard to distinguish the second (pink) and the third (red) level on the map. The "old" settler maps (where the most important cities were yellow in stead of bright pink), were much easier to read. Maybe we could go back to the original colours, or change the colour values so that it's easier to distinguish the colours without taking a very close look.
