Playing as poland I had a german respawn well out of their area that completely ruined my game. Stettin, Lubben, (dont rmember polish names, but both e of river) and Prag (2 left of mountains) flipped to them, though two of these are pink in my settler map. Something must be done about this respawning. I have seen a hungary respawn encompass almost everything to coast, and french respawn take vichy and tours from Burgundy. Too frequent, too many cities encompassed.
RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread
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AnotherPacifist
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Well, so far I've no respawns, as long as I kept myself above unstable. I did have 1 defection while I played Hungary, but I conquered it right back. Even with my Austrian HRE (and it WAS the HRE including Italy, the Low Countries and Norway with her English/Danish lands) I didn't have any respawns. (I'm going to post a screenpic when I finally finish it, since my computer is taking 2 minutes between turns, and I'm only at 1708).
Prague is supposed to belong to the Austrians, so I don't know why the Germans got it. Maybe the respawn zones need to be shruken a little.
Prague is supposed to belong to the Austrians, so I don't know why the Germans got it. Maybe the respawn zones need to be shruken a little.
fdgsgds
Mustard Enthusiast
When I play, the same thing basically happens to the nations.
Some civilizations played by the AI do really terribly, and some do extremely well.
Some ones that do poorly are Moscow, Austria, Hungary, and Sweden. Austria always becomes vassalized only owning Wien, Prag, and Kopisch or Klagenfurt or Grosskirchen. This is annoying since they, in real life, became a powerful state. Burgundy also becomes vassalized by Frankia, which is fine but I think they should just be taken over. Turkey rarely takes over Instanbul by 1500 in my games. I've never seen Cordoba been defeated, which is
.
Frankia, Arabia, Spain, and sometimes Venezia become very powerful.
Also, should Bysantium really be that unstable all the time? They never ever really hold onto the seven cities of Iconium, Caesarea, Antioch, Sinope, Aleppo, Alexandria, and Cyrene because of them declaring independence... I probably wouldn't know, but I don't think the Bysantines would declare independence from the mightiest city in the world (Constantinopolis) and its empire.
Some more of my problems were as Sweden, my last UHV never got checked (which I would have one) and neither did my last UHV on Venice.
As Bysantium, I lost my last UHV (have the most gold in 1500 A.D.). Somehow someone had over 6,000 gold? Is research python-based? Sheesh, how do they have that much gold and still have average techs? If they had low techs surely they would have been taken over...
One last thing: when I take over someone, they might rebel, even though my empire is "Stable" (in the financial advisor window).
Some civilizations played by the AI do really terribly, and some do extremely well.
Some ones that do poorly are Moscow, Austria, Hungary, and Sweden. Austria always becomes vassalized only owning Wien, Prag, and Kopisch or Klagenfurt or Grosskirchen. This is annoying since they, in real life, became a powerful state. Burgundy also becomes vassalized by Frankia, which is fine but I think they should just be taken over. Turkey rarely takes over Instanbul by 1500 in my games. I've never seen Cordoba been defeated, which is
.Frankia, Arabia, Spain, and sometimes Venezia become very powerful.
Also, should Bysantium really be that unstable all the time? They never ever really hold onto the seven cities of Iconium, Caesarea, Antioch, Sinope, Aleppo, Alexandria, and Cyrene because of them declaring independence... I probably wouldn't know, but I don't think the Bysantines would declare independence from the mightiest city in the world (Constantinopolis) and its empire.
Some more of my problems were as Sweden, my last UHV never got checked (which I would have one) and neither did my last UHV on Venice.
As Bysantium, I lost my last UHV (have the most gold in 1500 A.D.). Somehow someone had over 6,000 gold? Is research python-based? Sheesh, how do they have that much gold and still have average techs? If they had low techs surely they would have been taken over...
One last thing: when I take over someone, they might rebel, even though my empire is "Stable" (in the financial advisor window).
AnotherPacifist
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That gold-hoarding civ is called the Pope. 
On an unrelated note, I thought vassals are not supposed to be able to declare war? The Dutch, out of the blue, declared war on Arabia, and I'm their master. I decided to declare war on Kiev the turn before to see if things would change, and the next turn, the Dutch declared on France. Can we PLEASE don't allow vassals to do stupid stuff like this?
On an unrelated note, I thought vassals are not supposed to be able to declare war? The Dutch, out of the blue, declared war on Arabia, and I'm their master. I decided to declare war on Kiev the turn before to see if things would change, and the next turn, the Dutch declared on France. Can we PLEASE don't allow vassals to do stupid stuff like this?
3Miro
Deity
That gold-hoarding civ is called the Pope.
On an unrelated note, I thought vassals are not supposed to be able to declare war? The Dutch, out of the blue, declared war on Arabia, and I'm their master. I decided to declare war on Kiev the turn before to see if things would change, and the next turn, the Dutch declared on France. Can we PLEASE don't allow vassals to do stupid stuff like this?
It is an RFC feature that we have inherited.
I dont think the respawns are related to stability. Seems like civs will only respawn if they were active during that timeframe, so as france must wait untill 14th century to be sure burgundy will not respawn etc. England on the other hand can always a chance to jump back in. COrrect me if im wrong.
AnotherPacifist
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Stability has everything to do with respawns. If the AI controls a foreign capital and they are not very solid, there is always a chance for the latter civ to respawn. (On the other hand, in my Austrian game, France was very solid and owned London for eons, and therefore the English never respawned). For the human, a foreign former capital can respawn if you're only stable, and other cities might respawn if you're shaky. If I remember right sedna17 adjusted the respawn probabilities (e.g. France and Germany have a much higher chance of respawn than Cordoba and Byzantium, which is true to history).
So maybe the trick is to raze Frankfurt/London/Paris if it wasn't razed for you by barbs
micbic
Optimistic Pessimist
Giving away a city seems to have a permenant impact on stabiliy, even liberating one to a vassal. This doesnt make any sense to me.
Is the impact permant, as with changing civics?
Also, I think the instability caused by anarchy should very slowly decrease over time giving more flexibility in longer games. Perhaps 1 point restored every 50 turns. This would a better model of how civs work and make for a better late game.
Losiing a turn or two of production in all cities is bad enough, but having my stability irreversibly affected is a bit too much.
Ive also noticed that every x number of turns a civ will respawn. It must be random which one. What should be written into the code is that, for example, german cities will not respawn if austria is in control, burgndian cities will not respawn if france is in control, and arab cities will nt respawn if turkey has already spawned. THis would make allot more sense. I hae also noticed that kiev can respawn. They should be a once only civ I think.
Cordoba sould only be able to respwn if more than two cities in iberia still have islam, austria should never respawn under German control, and venetia and genoa sould also never respawn.
Is the impact permant, as with changing civics?
Also, I think the instability caused by anarchy should very slowly decrease over time giving more flexibility in longer games. Perhaps 1 point restored every 50 turns. This would a better model of how civs work and make for a better late game.
Losiing a turn or two of production in all cities is bad enough, but having my stability irreversibly affected is a bit too much.
Ive also noticed that every x number of turns a civ will respawn. It must be random which one. What should be written into the code is that, for example, german cities will not respawn if austria is in control, burgndian cities will not respawn if france is in control, and arab cities will nt respawn if turkey has already spawned. THis would make allot more sense. I hae also noticed that kiev can respawn. They should be a once only civ I think.
Cordoba sould only be able to respwn if more than two cities in iberia still have islam, austria should never respawn under German control, and venetia and genoa sould also never respawn.
AnotherPacifist
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Ah, is THAT why my Austrian HRE never experienced the 30 Years War with Germany respawning...
I think also Kiev should be a once only civ. The rise of Moscow was predicated on that, and actually makes its UHV a little harder since you have to war on the other civs (like Venice) who likes to go conquer indies and barbs. Re Cordoba: I think the best version would be if Cordoba (the city) itself has no Islam, then it cannot respawn.
England needs to be able to respawn even if France owns London and is very solid--otherwise it just feels wrong.
I think also Kiev should be a once only civ. The rise of Moscow was predicated on that, and actually makes its UHV a little harder since you have to war on the other civs (like Venice) who likes to go conquer indies and barbs. Re Cordoba: I think the best version would be if Cordoba (the city) itself has no Islam, then it cannot respawn.
England needs to be able to respawn even if France owns London and is very solid--otherwise it just feels wrong.
Pacifist, When I saw your screenshot I gave Austria a try. First time I killed hungary straight off. THen headed to settle Germany. SHort time later hungary respawned. Tried again and this time avoided hungaRY. Settled germany. Unfurtunately they respawned. It wasnt so bad the first game just losing one city, but 2nd game I lost three which was too hard on my stability to continue. I wasnt unstable when they respawned.
AnotherPacifist
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Hungary should be allowed to live until the mid 1480-1500's. Build Heroic Epic in Linz (which can churn out units every 2-3 moves even without a blacksmith), keep building units. Then when they least expect it, strike from Ragusa and Silesia, capture all 3 cities within 10 moves. I was never unstable, which might have helped Hungary not respawning. Pest was my most financial/scientific city until I founded Augsburg bankers.
JediClemente
Prince
OK, finally this last days had enough time to fool around RFCE as Spain, Ottomans, England and France.
I have to say the mod has improved a helluva lot from last time I played it, months ago.
Here are the most important problems I could notice (sorry if I repeat something said before):
* Sicily and Southern Italy are still never settled, Napoli never conquered by anyone. Italy is supposed to be one of the main focuses of the Late Middle Ages - Early Reinassance. In history, I mean. In RFCE it's a dumpster.
* Some AIs just sit near indy cities they should take, instead of just attacking them. Spain is now too often a minor player, it doesn't even take Pamplona! (I suppose it was weakened deliberately). The same applies for Venice, usually cornered by indy Ragusa.
* Got several crusades against me as the Ottomans after taking Jerusalem, near 1500! Is that supposed to happen? Bug: I declared peace with the attacker once the crusade was on its way, so they arrived and didn't attack, just sat there... until next crusade, organised by the same civ, just this time with those extra troops too!
* It's nice Burgundy now doesn't suffer so much instability, but they're a powerhouse, and this cripples France. Similarly, I see the advantage of making Moscowans appear just after the mongol invasion, but they never accomplish anything.
Ah, almost forgot. Hungary is the Maya of RFCE. Hopeless.
I have to say the mod has improved a helluva lot from last time I played it, months ago.
Here are the most important problems I could notice (sorry if I repeat something said before):
* Sicily and Southern Italy are still never settled, Napoli never conquered by anyone. Italy is supposed to be one of the main focuses of the Late Middle Ages - Early Reinassance. In history, I mean. In RFCE it's a dumpster.
* Some AIs just sit near indy cities they should take, instead of just attacking them. Spain is now too often a minor player, it doesn't even take Pamplona! (I suppose it was weakened deliberately). The same applies for Venice, usually cornered by indy Ragusa.
* Got several crusades against me as the Ottomans after taking Jerusalem, near 1500! Is that supposed to happen? Bug: I declared peace with the attacker once the crusade was on its way, so they arrived and didn't attack, just sat there... until next crusade, organised by the same civ, just this time with those extra troops too!
* It's nice Burgundy now doesn't suffer so much instability, but they're a powerhouse, and this cripples France. Similarly, I see the advantage of making Moscowans appear just after the mongol invasion, but they never accomplish anything.
Ah, almost forgot. Hungary is the Maya of RFCE. Hopeless.
AnotherPacifist
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Spain does settle Sicily eventually. The Norse would probably like to, but Cordoba doesn't open borders for them. Naples is occasionally conquered by the Byzantines (usually accidental and only if they found Brindisi). I think Naples need to be under both the Bourbon and the Aragonese war map to be historically accurate.
I thought crusades should have stopped after 1456 (the last crusade against the Turks), so it's probably a bug.
Hungary is a really powerful civ when played correctly, but I find that they have their 2nd settler sit close to Pest for eons before venturing out, even in their settler map. On the other hand, Byzantines found cities like mad even useless ones like Hippo Regius (very little potential to grow) and they lose it almost right away due to instability. Portugal also doesn't found its island colonies until very late (like in 1700's). Maybe the settler tile values need to be changed.
I thought crusades should have stopped after 1456 (the last crusade against the Turks), so it's probably a bug.
Hungary is a really powerful civ when played correctly, but I find that they have their 2nd settler sit close to Pest for eons before venturing out, even in their settler map. On the other hand, Byzantines found cities like mad even useless ones like Hippo Regius (very little potential to grow) and they lose it almost right away due to instability. Portugal also doesn't found its island colonies until very late (like in 1700's). Maybe the settler tile values need to be changed.
AnotherPacifist
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Burgundy needs to be a little weaker now...I just finished my first goal as Moscow (really unstable in emperor due to my numerous cities), and guess what, they win their UHV in the mid 1400's! 
France should be a little stronger.
France should be a little stronger.AnotherPacifist
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And finally, the Turks need a little more help against Byzantium. I haven't played them yet, but in almost all my games so far they are either a vassal of Arabia, or actually get collapsed by Arabia and Byzantium. How about making drafting less for the population and making Istanbul an automatic capital?
for the population and making Istanbul an automatic capital?
Never saw the ottomans in Istanbul. They did not even try to attack my one city vasall Genoa in Istanbul. Played a few turns with the turks, they have more than enough troops to capture all of today Turkey without building a single troop. Only stability and upkeep can stop them. Seems they dismiss troops to save upkeep. Maybe let them start with feudal law and courthouses so upkeep is a little less? Ottomans have 3 settlers, 4 cities flip, makes a total of 7 cities they will have in 1600 
France is weak and often respawns very early with no techs because of the barbs in Germany and berserkers from a galley.
In my actual game germany respawned and was crushed by barbs again. With no troops, no techs, respawning does not have much of an effect in barb areas. France, respawned early, will never see techs.
Did not see a devastating respawn yet.
bye Myri
France is weak and often respawns very early with no techs because of the barbs in Germany and berserkers from a galley.
In my actual game germany respawned and was crushed by barbs again. With no troops, no techs, respawning does not have much of an effect in barb areas. France, respawned early, will never see techs.
Did not see a devastating respawn yet.
bye Myri
operafantom
Chieftain
Now when they respawn with the techs what they had when they were destroyed. Maybe the respawning civ could get the techs when they respawn that every civ already has. So they wouldn't be the strongest but don't have to research for example Music in the age of Liberalism.
