RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread

[fireclaw722]

Yeah niether could I, but if the Pope loses to barbs(and is conquered), would he still be able to declare a crusade? In otherwords is the Crusades tied directly to the Pope LH/Civ?

Another thought:
If the Pope is conquered by Barbs, then there should be a high chance to reinstall the Pope to Papacy...

 

[The Turk]

Personally I feel that you SHOULD be able to take over Rome and the Papacy, just like the German's and French did. But I realize this would mess up game dynamics, therefore it would be best if you would allow the player to vassalize the Papacy, which I think would be a good representation of big powers like Germany and France controlling them.
For you next version can you turn on "long names" like West Francia rather than just "France".
And finally, research is WAAYYYY to fast, especially if you are one of the European power in the Medieval Ages. Please make techs more expensive, or implement something like what SoI has, where the larger your Empire gets, the more expensive techs become.

 

[ezzlar]

Yeah, techs are a bit cheap. But I think there already is a research penalty beyond 10 cities.

 

[yogiebere]

And finally, research is WAAYYYY to fast, especially if you are one of the European power in the Medieval Ages. Please make techs more expensive, or implement something like what SoI has, where the larger your Empire gets, the more expensive techs become.

I support making techs, mostly later ones, cost more (especially once protestantism starts working correctly) but penalizing a successfully large civ just seems absurb, they are already penalized enough due to maintenance costs. If I expand too quickly with a civ in the beginning, like Bulgaria, Cordoba, Kiev, even France, Spain, Germany sometimes, I have to set my science bar wayyyy back to even as low as 10-20%. With this feature and the fact that civs are not aggressive or expansive as it is (Russia, Genoa, Hungary are good examples) it would be counterproductive to have such a feature.

 

[The Turk]

I support making techs, mostly later ones, cost more (especially once protestantism starts working correctly) but penalizing a successfully large civ just seems absurb, they are already penalized enough due to maintenance costs. If I expand too quickly with a civ in the beginning, like Bulgaria, Cordoba, Kiev, even France, Spain, Germany sometimes, I have to set my science bar wayyyy back to even as low as 10-20%. With this feature and the fact that civs are not aggressive or expansive as it is (Russia, Genoa, Hungary are good examples) it would be counterproductive to have such a feature.

Obviously you haven't played SoI then
But I think the way Edead set it up, was fairly historically accurate. And for a place like backwards Medieval Europe, you should not be teching that fast. At the same time though, I think France should start off with Farming at LEAST. And that there should be more independent cities overall.

 

[Wessel V1]

What I think is needed is not a research penalty for large civs (because we have it already), but a more gradually increase of research costs. Their increase is minor, until the Renaissance.

 

[civ_king]

Obviously you haven't played SoI then
But I think the way Edead set it up, was fairly historically accurate. And for a place like backwards Medieval Europe, you should not be teching that fast. At the same time though, I think France should start off with Farming at LEAST. And that there should be more independent cities overall.

you of all people

 

[The Turk]

you of all people

huh?

 

[FakeShady]

Obviously you haven't played SoI then
But I think the way Edead set it up, was fairly historically accurate. And for a place like backwards Medieval Europe, you should not be teching that fast. At the same time though, I think France should start off with Farming at LEAST. And that there should be more independent cities overall.

And with that The Turk has just reached a new level of awesomeness

 

[ezzlar]

Guys, not this again!!! Please!

 

[yogiebere]

Guys, not this again!!! Please!

lol has this happened before?

yes I think later techs should be scaled back. Like once you get towards gunpowder, things start costing 10% more then 20% up to the last techs costing 50% more (just change the beaker value of each)

Even the AI gets them extremely quickly. Ive seen France get Cuba at around 1450

 

[The Turk]

And with that The Turk has just reached a new level of awesomeness

Guys, not this again!!! Please!

lol has this happened before?

Guys, what the hell is going on?

 

[kochman]

Anyone who doesn't have the Turk on their auto-ignore list is really doing it to themselves.

I expect that soon there will be a Jihad mod released with all sorts of interesting techs and city improvements like martyrdom, manipulate children into becoming bombers, kidnapping/bomb making camps, and other endless exportation of violence moves that result in the enemies having to amp up their internal security, resulting in more and more unhappiness until capitulation results.

Moderator Action: Very inappropriate.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Brew]

@ kochman

While I often find Turk's posts to be a little dense and sometimes annoying (the increased tech cost is originally from RFC, not SoI) your comment sounds pretty racist to me. I suppose you believe all Muslims are terrorists too. And it is historical fact that medieval Europe indeed was backwards (in that no high civilization existed other than Byzantium on the level of China, India, and yes the Middle East; Islamic civilization was the most advanced of its era both technologically and artistically) so get over it.

Moderator Action: Rather then argue the post, please report it and let us moderators deal with it. Thank you.

 

[The Turk]

@ kochman

While I often find Turk's posts to be a little dense and sometimes annoying (the increased tech cost is originally from RFC, not SoI)

Ok, well thank you for agreeing with me (about Kochman's very post); but the fact that you are stating that my post was "dense" is what I find strange. Because is it not fact that Europe well up to 1400 (and even later when compared to China) was not as advanced as the rest of the world? I'm pretty sure this is pretty much pat down by now, in terms of Historians recognizing this, as well as you. And I have no clue what others in this thread have had a problem with... (FakeShady, Ezzlar, Yogiebere, civ_king). Please do not debate history with nothing to back you up; I don't know if you were trying to be "funny", but just because I stated a fact, does not warrant such unprecedented attacks from you.

And yes I know the increased tech costs are from RFC, but Edead changed it, by making the techs much more expensive, something which added a MUCH more realistic feel for the game, something which I was thinking should be placed in this game as well for early techs. My concern was that, in RFC Europe we tend to just race through the Dark Ages, which annoys me quite a bit, as its supposed to be a very long period, of not much scientific growth. So overall, please don't call my posts "dense" as thats quite rude.

@Krochman
Dude, what is your problem? I'm not provoking you, so please keep away from me.
And if you have me on your "ignore" list, than why aren't you ignoring me?

 

[civ_king]

Ok, well thank you for agreeing with me (about Kochman's very post); but the fact that you are stating that my post was "dense" is what I find strange. Because is it not fact that Europe well up to 1400 (and even later when compared to China) was not as advanced as the rest of the world? I'm pretty sure this is pretty much pat down by now, in terms of Historians recognizing this, as well as you. And I have no clue what others in this thread have had a problem with... (FakeShady, Ezzlar, Yogiebere, civ_king). Please do not debate history with nothing to back you up; I don't know if you were trying to be "funny", but just because I stated a fact, does not warrant such unprecedented attacks from you.

And yes I know the increased tech costs are from RFC, but Edead changed it, by making the techs much more expensive, something which added a MUCH more realistic feel for the game, something which I was thinking should be placed in this game as well for early techs. My concern was that, in RFC Europe we tend to just race through the Dark Ages, which annoys me quite a bit, as its supposed to be a very long period, of not much scientific growth. So overall, please don't call my posts "dense" as thats quite rude.

@Krochman
Dude, what is your problem? I'm not provoking you, so please keep away from me.
And if you have me on your "ignore" list, than why aren't you ignoring me?

I'm just a little trigger happy because

Spoiler :

people talk about everything from 500-Renaissance (or even reformation) as "Liek OMG dude dey middle ages wuz dark an an poeple liek ran arund rapin each oder and liek dey wuz dum and dey ate babiez and teh Cherch mad dem evul satanuc munsters and dey liek torchured evri 1 and dey Cherch was like die bish an dey liek killed babiez cuz they felt liek an an an..."

sound the words out to figure them out (hint d are th's)

In English: The Middle Ages were dark and filled with ignorance, iniquity and avarice, the Church is fundamentally responsible because it was supposed to be the moral guide. There was also the horrific atrocities of the Inquisition in which millions died

problems: They weren't ignorant, times were just tough because society (the Roman empire) collapsed, the Church didn't have much of a grasp until about 800 at which point things got steadily better and the peak of the Catholic Church's control is the High Middle Ages which coincidentally also happened to be a new peak of civilization (in Europe) until it basically was beaten to death by a series of bad harvests and plagues because y'know society doesn't do so well when half of it dies in a couple decades. Also the Inquisition had a conviction rate of ~2% which meant that the Inquisitions controlled by the Catholic Church in Europe added up to ~100 people per year (Numerous Popes pleaded with the Spanish monarchy that the Inquisition should not be used that way). For reference the Protestant versions of the Inquisition were far far worse, we're talking death toll in thousands per year

Sorry that I went off on you.

It seems the Moderators dealt with kochman already

 

[ezzlar]

lol has this happened before?

yes I think later techs should be scaled back. Like once you get towards gunpowder, things start costing 10% more then 20% up to the last techs costing 50% more (just change the beaker value of each)

Even the AI gets them extremely quickly. Ive seen France get Cuba at around 1450

Flip back a few pages and you´ll see the mod discussion turn into a flame war. A bit sad

 

[The Turk]

I'm just a little trigger happy because

Spoiler :

people talk about everything from 500-Renaissance (or even reformation) as "Liek OMG dude dey middle ages wuz dark an an poeple liek ran arund rapin each oder and liek dey wuz dum and dey ate babiez and teh Cherch mad dem evul satanuc munsters and dey liek torchured evri 1 and dey Cherch was like die bish an dey liek killed babiez cuz they felt liek an an an..."

sound the words out to figure them out (hint d are th's)

In English: The Middle Ages were dark and filled with ignorance, iniquity and avarice, the Church is fundamentally responsible because it was supposed to be the moral guide. There was also the horrific atrocities of the Inquisition in which millions died

problems: They weren't ignorant, times were just tough because society (the Roman empire) collapsed, the Church didn't have much of a grasp until about 800 at which point things got steadily better and the peak of the Catholic Church's control is the High Middle Ages which coincidentally also happened to be a new peak of civilization (in Europe) until it basically was beaten to death by a series of bad harvests and plagues because y'know society doesn't do so well when half of it dies in a couple decades. Also the Inquisition had a conviction rate of ~2% which meant that the Inquisitions controlled by the Catholic Church in Europe added up to ~100 people per year (Numerous Popes pleaded with the Spanish monarchy that the Inquisition should not be used that way). For reference the Protestant versions of the Inquisition were far far worse, we're talking death toll in thousands per year

Sorry that I went off on you.

It seems the Moderators dealt with kochman already

Dude, I'm not saying that there was "anarchy" during the Dark Ages, nor will I ever say that; in fact in some places, it was quite the opposite. What I AM saying, is that technologies were not being created everyday, and that science scaled back REALLY far, to the point where in some places, technologies which were used by the Romans, were completely lost. By the way, I'm getting most of my information about the Dark Ages from William Manchester's book "A World Lit Only By Fire", which is a fairly interesting read, and I would recommend it to you, to challenge you thinking, as it did for mine.
And no, I don't know why you are talking about the Spanish Inquisition, as I have no clue what it has to do with what I said, or what we're talking about.

But apology accepted, its really no big deal; all I really want is to talk about this mod, period!

 

[civ_king]

Dude, I'm not saying that there was "anarchy" during the Dark Ages, nor will I ever say that; in fact in some places, it was quite the opposite. What I AM saying, is that technologies were not being created everyday, and that science scaled back REALLY far, to the point where in some places, technologies which were used by the Romans, were completely lost. By the way, I'm getting most of my information about the Dark Ages from William Manchester's book "A World Lit Only By Fire", which is a fairly interesting read, and I would recommend it to you, to challenge you thinking, as it did for mine.
And no, I don't know why you are talking about the Spanish Inquisition, as I have no clue what it has to do with what I said, or what we're talking about.

But apology accepted, its really no big deal; all I really want is to talk about this mod, period!

I have a tendency to go off when people bring up Dark Ages and Europe

I'm entirely sorry for going off on you, I misinterpreted what you said

 

[yogiebere]

So I'm researching the history of Spain, and I'm fine with the timeline we have right now; It gives Cordoba enough time to survive and at the same time ensures their defeat several hundred years after Spain spawns.
But why is it Leon? I think it would make more sense to have Castille. It appears Castille had more control (in land and military) than Leon in addition to the Castillians taking over the Leonese crown and adopting the Castillian language across Spain. Correct me if I'm wrong but this would make more sense. The capital would have to be moved and the map perhaps changed, but it wouldn't be a huge issue.

In addition this could reduce some tension between Spain and Portugal (as long as Spain was encouraged to settle the area north of portugal so Portugal doesn't take more land than they should) and actually make Spain conquer Barcelona in a reasonable time frame