RFC Europe playtesting feedback thread
- Thread starter st.lucifer
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3Miro
Deity
Islamic wonders don't require Islam. Check with the Civilopedia which ones do and don't. Islamic wonders require Arabic Knowledge, so Cordoba doesn't compete with Christians, only with Arabia so adding Islam is redundant. Cordoba must have been Orthodox to build the Round Church, which is unlucky/unlikely. At any rate, you can just use the WB so you don't lose your game.
AbsintheRed
Deity
AFAIK this has no effect on stability
If you change that line to: return (((long)(pow((float)getPopulation(), 2.0f))) * 1000);
than it will be (x^2) * 1000 instead of the original civ settings
Actually this is aesthatic change only, but I hate when I see that the population displayed in my cities is way too big. At least for a middle ages mod
Anyway, as I said in my last post, IMO the perfect solution would be something like (x+3)*x*1000
Seems much more realistic for me than the current one
If you change that line to: return (((long)(pow((float)getPopulation(), 2.0f))) * 1000);
than it will be (x^2) * 1000 instead of the original civ settings
Actually this is aesthatic change only, but I hate when I see that the population displayed in my cities is way too big. At least for a middle ages mod
Anyway, as I said in my last post, IMO the perfect solution would be something like (x+3)*x*1000
Seems much more realistic for me than the current one
3Miro
Deity
In the original RFC, the real population was used fro stability (which made large cities very unstable). I think I changed that in RFCE, but I will have to double-check. If it is just aesthetics I will make the change.
ezzlar
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2001
- Messages
- 1,843
Of course, thank you for the explanation! I was just unlucky in this game that Cordoba was orthodox for a period
AbsintheRed
Deity
Great, thank for checking this.
But even if it effects stability somehow, I will try and test it in my own dl
If I want that (x+3)*x*1000 than it should be something like this, right?
But even if it effects stability somehow, I will try and test it in my own dl
If I want that (x+3)*x*1000 than it should be something like this, right?
3Miro
Deity
A quick search shows that in the middle ages the largest cities were about 100 - 150 thousand people. In the game, the largest cities are about 15 - 17 of size. Common big cities have the size 10 - 12 which should correspoind to 50 thousand people. Smaller towns of size 6 should be about 15 thousand people. Do the math and get the formula
Code:
0.0017 * x*x*x*x + 13AbsintheRed
Deity
Hmm, you really want to use x^4?
It would run to extremes very easily if some cities population reaches high levels
The problem with the original one is the same: x^2.8 is a little much exponencial increase IMO
If it were up to me, I won't go above x^2, it can be easily balanced further, if you want a little lower population
EDIT: Not to mention, that with your formula, all the smaller towns would have the same population (between 13000 and 15000)
So, maybe instead of original my ((x^2)+3x)*1000 suggestion it could be ((x^1.7)+3x)*1000
Altough in civ the city itself somehow represents all the area around it, so I don't mind having slightly bigger cities than it's historical. You have much fewer cities after all.
For an average civ with her historical territory (8-10 cities) a million people population seems a little few
So my vote still goes for (x+3)*x*1000, but I'm curious about the others opinion too
It would run to extremes very easily if some cities population reaches high levels
The problem with the original one is the same: x^2.8 is a little much exponencial increase IMO
If it were up to me, I won't go above x^2, it can be easily balanced further, if you want a little lower population
EDIT: Not to mention, that with your formula, all the smaller towns would have the same population (between 13000 and 15000)
So, maybe instead of original my ((x^2)+3x)*1000 suggestion it could be ((x^1.7)+3x)*1000
Spoiler :
Altough in civ the city itself somehow represents all the area around it, so I don't mind having slightly bigger cities than it's historical. You have much fewer cities after all.
For an average civ with her historical territory (8-10 cities) a million people population seems a little few
So my vote still goes for (x+3)*x*1000, but I'm curious about the others opinion too
3Miro
Deity
Try it. Under my formula a city of size 30 would have population of 1.37 million people. I don't think you can ever get size 30 in our mod (even if you can, this is a huge exception).
AbsintheRed
Deity
Oh, I was editing my post in the meantime
I'm not sure about 30, maybe Constantinople or a few others? Still, 1.37 is way too much
Anyway, anything based on x^4 won't work either for the huge cities, or for the smaller towns (or both)
I'm not sure about 30, maybe Constantinople or a few others? Still, 1.37 is way too much
Anyway, anything based on x^4 won't work either for the huge cities, or for the smaller towns (or both)
HockeySam18
Chieftain
if anyone built the gardens of al andulus, the globe theatre, all the health buildings, and worked lots of farms or water tiles, it could be done. however, thats a huge if, and something the ai is likely never to do
AbsintheRed
Deity
Yeah, IIRC I had a few cities around 28 pop in one if my games
After a few more thoughts on this: very similar to the last one, just much more straightforward, and all the results are int: (x^2)/2 + 3.5x
I don't think we should go below these, I would hate to see Europe's total population below 10 million through the whole game
After a few more thoughts on this: very similar to the last one, just much more straightforward, and all the results are int: (x^2)/2 + 3.5x
Spoiler :
I don't think we should go below these, I would hate to see Europe's total population below 10 million through the whole game
But a x^4 sounds unnatural to me too. It doesn't only affect the speed the population intervals grow past a certain point, but also on small steps. I mean, should a pop 5 city really have 5^4 = 625 times more population than a pop 1 city?
AbsintheRed
Deity
Actually 3Miro's concept means that cities with 1, 2, 3 or 4 pop all have 13000 population
Nevertheless, it's a mistake to try to balance x^4 with constants (like 0.0017 there), it will be wrong in both ends
It's way too exponential here
Nevertheless, it's a mistake to try to balance x^4 with constants (like 0.0017 there), it will be wrong in both ends
It's way too exponential here
HockeySam18
Chieftain
is Turkey always supposed to adopt Orthodoxy? they have never once been islamic in any of my games. maybe start them with +/-5 islamic missionaries, or erase orthodoxy from the anatolian byzantine cities when they flip to Turkey. after the ottoman takeover of anatolia in the 1400s, orthodoxy was only prominent in greece, the balkans, and russia until ivan the terrible. also, can the ottoman capital be moved to istanbul upon capture?
3Miro
Deity
Ottomans do start with several missionaries and if they convert to Orthodoxy, this is a balancing issue. Lets see if this continuous on Beta 4.
3Miro
Deity
I am currently uploading the changes to the SVN (it is taking long for some reason). The question, however, is how to upload Beta 4. Sedna17 used to do that, with him not here, do we have to revert to Rapidshare or Filefront, or does someone else knows/has permission to do it.
HockeySam18
Chieftain
I'll see if it changes in beta 4, but right now, Cordoba collapses very early, (sometimes by 1100!?), making for a very uninteresting Reconquista, as taking indy cities is a pushover.
The Bulgarian start is extremely difficult, with the Byzantines sometimes having guisarmes, arbalests, and macemen when you spawn. This makes it 9 out of 10 times impossible to take Odrin, not to mention Constantinople, which had longbowmen once! Is it possible to have Konniks start with flanking I & II so they withdraw more? Otherwise defeating the Byzantines is impossible with their huge tech lead.
Finally, I am appalled at how the Portuguese AI loves to build cities 2 tiles from each other, making them half as productive as they could be. They have the room to build good cities 3 tiles away, they just choose not to.
The Bulgarian start is extremely difficult, with the Byzantines sometimes having guisarmes, arbalests, and macemen when you spawn. This makes it 9 out of 10 times impossible to take Odrin, not to mention Constantinople, which had longbowmen once! Is it possible to have Konniks start with flanking I & II so they withdraw more? Otherwise defeating the Byzantines is impossible with their huge tech lead.
Finally, I am appalled at how the Portuguese AI loves to build cities 2 tiles from each other, making them half as productive as they could be. They have the room to build good cities 3 tiles away, they just choose not to.
kochman
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 10,818
Haha, what a great series of threads in response to my suggestion of a Jihad mod, which I am sure I am not the first person to think of, but the first to have the audacity to mention without a candy flavored coating. Say what you will... I don't really care.
I do not think all muslims are terrorists, only a very small percentage (of 1.3 billion people).... to rebut the individual who suggested that. The religion actively tells its followers to kill those who are not muslims... BUT, I don't think all people who are muslims support that, individuals are different, they are to be considered individually, and preferably when met in person... I do find it utterly disgusting how much of the muslim world either publicly or privately rejoices after each and every terrorist attack against non-muslims, and wish that the moderates out there would speak up against the thugs, but since so many support the thugs the results are that the moderates fear for their safety much of the time (or there are just way less moderates than I like to imagine there are).
That's as much as that comment requires as far as being dignified with a response.
That being said, Turk, though I have you on my ignore list, you are, unfortunately, sometimes still visible to me when someone else quotes you. Since you frequently make trollish and/or completely inaccurate posts, that is quite often. Your attempts to hijack this game/thread into something that you enjoy in your meager attempts at waging digital jihad are obnoxious, sorry... IF I could block you from being seen in quoted responses, I would, believe me.
Have fun guys... see you after several days...
I do not think all muslims are terrorists, only a very small percentage (of 1.3 billion people).... to rebut the individual who suggested that. The religion actively tells its followers to kill those who are not muslims... BUT, I don't think all people who are muslims support that, individuals are different, they are to be considered individually, and preferably when met in person... I do find it utterly disgusting how much of the muslim world either publicly or privately rejoices after each and every terrorist attack against non-muslims, and wish that the moderates out there would speak up against the thugs, but since so many support the thugs the results are that the moderates fear for their safety much of the time (or there are just way less moderates than I like to imagine there are).
That's as much as that comment requires as far as being dignified with a response.
That being said, Turk, though I have you on my ignore list, you are, unfortunately, sometimes still visible to me when someone else quotes you. Since you frequently make trollish and/or completely inaccurate posts, that is quite often. Your attempts to hijack this game/thread into something that you enjoy in your meager attempts at waging digital jihad are obnoxious, sorry... IF I could block you from being seen in quoted responses, I would, believe me.
Have fun guys... see you after several days...
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