RFC Europe: Small bugs/fixes

[st.lucifer]

The Italian cities are very tightly built. If you're going to have so many cities, you'll need a lot more resources there, too.

Also, I don't think Milan should flip to Genoa. Historically the four major powers of northern Italy were Venice, Genoa, Florence and Milan. Milan and Florence should start independent and have to be conquered. However, Genoa should probably have a city on Corsica that flips to it immediately (called Cardo before the flip, but Bastia thereafter).

There'll be a lot more resources in Italy than there currently are, don't worry.

I agree that Milan should stay independent, and I like the new placement better.

I disagree about having a city in Corsica to begin with. Corsica's within their core area, and they'll start with ships and settlers - but if we have an independent city on Corsica, unless it spawns 1 turn before Genoa does, it's going to be much bigger and more important than it would have been otherwise, and given that Genoa will be competing with Milan and Pisa for resources and food, it may outstrip the home city. Potentially problematic.

Jessiecat, I'd suggest moving Florence one more tile eastwards. That provides both cities with more breathing room, and it's not much of a stretch geographically.

I'll fix the rivers and resources as soon as I can get the mod running, which will hopefully be tomorrow.

 

[jessiecat]

There'll be a lot more resources in Italy than there currently are, don't worry.

I agree that Milan should stay independent, and I like the new placement better.

I disagree about having a city in Corsica to begin with. Corsica's within their core area, and they'll start with ships and settlers - but if we have an independent city on Corsica, unless it spawns 1 turn before Genoa does, it's going to be much bigger and more important than it would have been otherwise, and given that Genoa will be competing with Milan and Pisa for resources and food, it may outstrip the home city. Potentially problematic.

Jessiecat, I'd suggest moving Florence one more tile eastwards. That provides both cities with more breathing room, and it's not much of a stretch geographically.

I'll fix the rivers and resources as soon as I can get the mod running, which will hopefully be tomorrow.

I'm happy with Florence moving east as long as it doesn't end up on the Adriatic as a naval rival to Venice. That would be wrong. I could go either way on Corsica. Its up to 3Miro. Regarding wrong placement of cities, I've already addressed that some hours ago. (see post 19 above). I do agree on Freiburg though. I had it as Basle, 1 tile to the west.

 

[st.lucifer]

I'm happy with Florence moving east as long as it doesn't end up on the Adriatic as a naval rival to Venice. That would be wrong. I could go either way on Corsica. Its up to 3Miro. Regarding wrong placement of cities, I've already addressed that some hours ago. (see post 19 above). I do agree on Freiburg though. I had it as Basle, 1 tile to the west.

My mistake, I missed the screenshots there. Sorry about that.

I'll post an updated WBS with cities and resources later today.

 

[st.lucifer]

Minor issues:

-Map Making has the artwork/text for Computers
-Mounted infantry gets the +3 xp bonus from barracks; does not get a +2 for mounted units (despite being counted as a mounted unit for offense/defense purposes vs. spearmen)
-Lyon is renamed Valence when captured by Burgundy
-Lots of TXT errors - low priority to fix
-All units seem to be able to pass through marsh.
-Lumber mills are available from the beginning, as are windmills and watermills. It seems like they should be available with later techs - windmills and watermills with machinery, lumber mills later still.
-Timber doesn't have an improvement associated with it yet. Lumber mills seem like the most appropriate improvement.
-As we have a number of food/health resources already, I'm going to suggest moving sheep into the luxury resource category to represent wool. They can still give a food bonus, but there are a lot of food bonuses on the map.
-Cities are growing big early, in part because there isn't a whole lot of other stuff to do with the food.
-Kiev's capital/starting city is Khabarovsk. That doesn't seem right.
-Somehow a barbarian lion has spawned on one of the Balearic islands, and it hasn't disappeared as animals sometimes do.

 

[Verily]

I disagree about having a city in Corsica to begin with. Corsica's within their core area, and they'll start with ships and settlers - but if we have an independent city on Corsica, unless it spawns 1 turn before Genoa does, it's going to be much bigger and more important than it would have been otherwise, and given that Genoa will be competing with Milan and Pisa for resources and food, it may outstrip the home city. Potentially problematic.

Only if Corsica has the resources to support a major city, which it shouldn't. Just Wine and maybe a Fish or Clams tile within reach is all any city on Corsica should have access to within its BFC--which means it's not likely to be very productive or grow quickly. Corsica is not exactly resource-rich.

The city could spawn in 800 AD to prevent it from growing from the very beginning.

 

[onedreamer]

I finally managed to download and play a bit.
With Venice start, I didn't see Verona anywhere, and couldn't build it because of Milan's borders (even declaring war I couldn't... I think I should have been able to though).
I think north Italy should be crowdy but also resourceful, Pisa should flip to Genoa and Verona to Venice, while Milan and Florence should stay indipendent. Also I would remove the ability to raze.
Lastly, in case you don't know it Venice uses the default Roman city list when founding cities, at least when I play it.

I have also played in Spain where I found corn, 2 indipendent cities were next to each other (Vitoria and San Sebastian if I'm not wrong) at every start, La Coruna is named A Coruna, and the location of Sevilla needs some love (food is lacking). The rest looks perfect in Spain

 

[jessiecat]

I finally managed to download and play a bit.
With Venice start, I didn't see Verona anywhere, and couldn't build it because of Milan's borders (even declaring war I couldn't... I think I should have been able to though).
I think north Italy should be crowdy but also resourceful, Pisa should flip to Genoa and Verona to Venice, while Milan and Florence should stay indipendent. Also I would remove the ability to raze.
Lastly, in case you don't know it Venice uses the default Roman city list when founding cities, at least when I play it.

I have also played in Spain where I found corn, 2 indipendent cities were next to each other (Vitoria and San Sebastian if I'm not wrong) at every start, La Coruna is named A Coruna, and the location of Sevilla needs some love (food is lacking). The rest looks perfect in Spain

We decided not to include Verona if we were keeping Pisa and Firenze. You need to use the latest version incl. st.lucifers fixes (file thread). Italy looks pretty good now. Though maybe you could redo a CityNames map we could use for both Venice and Genoa. I'm sure you're as sick as I am of seeing Cumae cropping up as a default name. Also Spain has been fixed. Britain too.

 

[onedreamer]

Will see if I understand how to do it ^^

 

[Barak]

While playing a game as Burgundy, I saw Cordoba build Toledo, 3 squares East and 1 South of Toledo (which is still independant).

 

[jessiecat]

While playing a game as Burgundy, I saw Cordoba build Toledo, 3 squares East and 1 South of Toledo (which is still independant).

The CityNames and AI Settler maps for Iberia need some fixing.

 

[st.lucifer]

Errors observed in game as Germany:
-both shipbuilding and steam engine give a +50% worker speed bonus.
-scientific method enables the laboratory from standard civ.
-steam engine enables levee, which was not going to be included in our mod. The Dutch dike, which replaces the aqueduct, was meant to have the levee function.
-Weird messages: Poland has declared war on Poland! (actually on the Norse); Hungary has become a vassal of Hungary (actually Bulgaria); Hungary has renounced the protection of Hungary and is now a free state; Venezia has renounced the protection of Venezia (actually Byzantines) and is now a free state.
-Dense forest provides no hammers. If we're cutting the food (definitely appropriate), we might make it produce 1 hammer so it isn't completely useless.
-Religious prosecutors seem very cheap to build. I'd advocate making them at least twice as expensive.
-I get the second Thessalonica 2 tiles south of Hadrianopolis too.
-Venice is building cities in the Balkans SE of Beograd, while ignoring Ragusa and Italy.
-All units except for UUs can pass through marsh.
-Clicking on the open book button next to the mercenary button generates an error which crashes the game.

 

[onedreamer]

that's the message list button that you can also open with ctrl-tab.
RE: marshes. If marshes are impassable then Venice should start with a Galley.
RE: Venice. The version I played didn't have Verona to flip, I started with strong indipendent borders on every side: Milan, central italian indies, Graz. Also, there are practically no resources around except for food ones, which makes the land not quite desirable. And even if, there is no iron around that Venice can use, leaving it a bit screwed if it had to conquer indies. I suggest removing Graz and let Venice colonize the Istrian area. Ragusa is also an uniteresting area.

 

[jessiecat]

that's the message list button that you can also open with ctrl-tab.
RE: marshes. If marshes are impassable then Venice should start with a Galley.
RE: Venice. The version I played didn't have Verona to flip, I started with strong indipendent borders on every side: Milan, central italian indies, Graz. Also, there are practically no resources around except for food ones, which makes the land not quite desirable. And even if, there is no iron around that Venice can use, leaving it a bit screwed if it had to conquer indies. I suggest removing Graz and let Venice colonize the Istrian area. Ragusa is also an uniteresting area.

Actually in the latest version Graz isn't there anymore. I'm playing them now and have done what you suggested. I added a galley and trireme and a couple of units, founded Zadar and later conquered Ragusa. I also added iron to the Istrian peninsula and horses near Zadar. Doing quite well now.(see screenshot).

 

[onedreamer]

Though maybe you could redo a CityNames map we could use for both Venice and Genoa. I'm sure you're as sick as I am of seeing Cumae cropping up as a default name. Also Spain has been fixed. Britain too.

Ok I give up... which files do I need to check in order to do this ?

 

[donbot]

-I get the second Thessalonica 2 tiles south of Hadrianopolis too.

I have seen the 2nd Thessalonica built in southern Italy. It must be the default name used for the Byzantines

 

[st.lucifer]

Ok I give up... which files do I need to check in order to do this ?

You can download Sedna's latest version and replace the RFCEurope folder with it, or you can download my zipped WBS and play from there.

 

[Black Whole]

Ok I give up... which files do I need to check in order to do this ?

The important file is the RFCEMaps.py file in the python directory.

I would like to help here too, but what do these numbers mean (eg. 0,2,4,6, etc.). Are they important for the citiy lists?

 

[onedreamer]

don't know, that file makes sense only for a few civs, and for those fews I spotted several errors.

 

[sedna17]

Thanks for your interest in helping with the maps. If someone is relatively computer savvy, here's what you need to know:

As mentioned, RFCEMaps.py in the Assets/Python directory of the download is the relevant file. The first third (roughly) are called Settler Maps. These maps tell the AI where to settle. The second third (starting at line 1568) are War Maps. These are just even numbers. If a portion of Nation A's non-zero War map is controlled by Nation B then Nation A is more likely to go to war with Nation B. Higher values mean more likely to go to war. The third third (starting at line 3126) are Name Maps, these maps control what a city founded by Nation Z on site X,Y is called. Each nation has both a Settler Map and a Name Map.

These three maps have different formats. Please keep the names of the three sorts of maps straight as well. One thing that anyone can do is copy and paste, for instance, a Settler Map for one nation into a spreadsheet program. If you do this for a big Settler Map (Byzantium works well) you'll see the outlines of the coast.

For the Settler Map, 20 is the default value, 3 means "Don't settler there, for the love of god!", and higher values: 150, 200, 300, 400, 500, 700 are just increasing desirable places to be settled.

For the Name Map, "-1" is the empty value, and the city names are obviously city names, also in quotes like "Paris". Ideally accents are in html escape format. So Jaén becomes Jaén.

My plan is to provide some easy scripts to facilitate transfer from these lists into and out of spreadsheets or WBS format. Some partial examples of such scripts are available at the wiki http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/rhyes-of-europe but these are a little out of date and cumbersome. If anyone is able to write such scripts themselves, you naturally have my blessing. Otherwise, I hope to get to this tomorrow (Tuesday) evening or Wednesday.

 

[onedreamer]

thanks for the explanation sedna. That script would be really useful otherwise it's going to take ages to figure out what I'm doing

Something I don't understand though: if I understood correctly, the -1 one values in the second part mean that the default name for that tile shouldn't be changed when settled/conquered by this particular civ. Where's the default name listed though ?