Did you try it again? You can't liberate the cities when loading the save?
I don't see any problems there :/
What do you mean by not being able to click on them?
Are they red? Or white, just doesn't appear in the trade list after you click on them?
All of which were my proud accomplishments. Besides me liking to play that way (playing a civ to continue with another civ is like a whole new UHV) isn't it the purpose of playtesting to do weird stuff and see how the game reacts?
Well, you implied there is a small mistake in the DCN setup for 1-2 Iberian civs.
But this turns out to be a serious coding error in the .dll, which causes all Master conditions to behave very strangely.
Thus the 3 civs with the very same name at the same time.
All of which were my proud accomplishments. Besides me liking to play that way (playing a civ to continue with another civ is like a whole new UHV) isn't it the purpose of playtesting to do weird stuff and see how the game reacts?
Yep, it certainly leads to very valuable feedback
Did you see that I made another post about the polish city liberation roughly at the same time you posted this?
Did you try it again? You can't liberate the cities when loading the save?
I don't see any problems there :/
What do you mean by not being able to click on them?
Are they red? Or white, just doesn't appear in the trade list after you click on them?
I just tried to reload the game and though I could swear that didn't work yesterday, today I am able to liberate all but one of the cities I conquered (the one I can't liberate didn't appear on the tradescreen, so I guess that's ok)
I will try to play the turn before I vassalized poland again and see if I can reproduce the problem (the cities show up on the tradescreen in white but can not be clicked also I could not give gold to other civs without them demanding it but I figured that was just a feature because I lacked a certain technology)
I just replayed the previous turn from memory and everything works like a charm. I am The problem must have been something with my computer(settings?)
Anyway thanks for all of your help and I am sorry if I cried wolf.
I just tried to reload the game and though I could swear that didn't work yesterday, today I am able to liberate all but one of the cities I conquered (the one I can't liberate didn't appear on the tradescreen, so I guess that's ok)
Yeah, that city already has Hungarian majority (I guess it didn't have too much culture for the Polish when you conquered it)
So that's the basic behaviour there.
I will try to play the turn before I vassalized poland again and see if I can reproduce the problem (the cities show up on the tradescreen in white but can not be clicked also I could not give gold to other civs without them demanding it but I figured that was just a feature because I lacked a certain technology)
I just replayed the previous turn from memory and everything works like a charm. I am The problem must have been something with my computer(settings?)
Anyway thanks for all of your help and I am sorry if I cried wolf.
I was always on the side of changing them to something actually connected to cottages.
I agree with your other points as well, makes sense from a balance point of view.
I'm not sure about the amount of the bonus though.
If we add it even from hamlets, it can easily get way too powerful.
PS: So you prefer the name Cottage Economy? Up until this post, I planned to change it to Cottage Industry
After reading the forums of days past I was a little surprised no one came up with the following:
The problem I personally have with giving the bonus to cottages-Hamlets-villages-towns is that England will end up very urbanised. A situation, during the middle ages, more appropriate for Northern Italy and the (Southern) Netherlands.
I can imagine the towns to be really small towns, but still...
Why not give them +1commerce and +1production but prevent them from becoming towns?
This will basically mean they are one tier up vs the other civilizations (and that you should really cherish the townspots you manage to get your hands on in some other way) but will not make them OP (overpowered) late game.
Alternatively you could give the workshops (also) a bonus of one food. This will remove the necessity to mix in the farms (most of the time) and will make the nonhill moorlands for England actually desirables spots as with workshops they will end up being the same as plains (for England)
This will also differentiate England from France (the similarity between the two in (successfull) gameplay most of the time is the biggest beef I have with England atm)
Finally to simulate the people flocking to London, eventually making it a huge city, especially compared to the other cities around in England, as an Unique ability for the english civ whenever a cottage-hamlet-village-town is ready to grow to its next tier there is an x% chance that in stead of growing to the next tier the capitol receives a bonus (some food, commerce, production or even a (happy)pop instead)
Of course this ability need not be tied to the capitol (for other civs) to provide an interesting early alternative to Serfdom-manoralism-farms.
Alternatively you could give the workshops (also) a bonus of one food. This will remove the necessity to mix in the farms (most of the time) and will make the nonhill moorlands for England actually desirables spots as with workshops they will end up being the same as plains (for England)
This will also differentiate England from France (the similarity between the two in (successfull) gameplay most of the time is the biggest beef I have with England atm)
This would be good if the workshops can come earlier for England. The biggest problem atm is that England can't build workshops until guilds, which is too late to be of any value in the first UHV.
Perhaps the English UP should be that England builds "collective villages" instead of workshops. These give +2 and +1 and are buildable with feudalism instead of guilds. So assuming England runs serfdom and manorialism they have a choice between:
Even more elegant would be an additional invisable tech that gives access to workshops that is automatically researched when guilds is researched. Then you can let England start with this invisible tech and allow England to start building workshops from the get go not unlike the Arabian civs.
The problem I personally have with giving the bonus to cottages-Hamlets-villages-towns is that England will end up very urbanised. A situation, during the middle ages, more appropriate for Northern Italy and the (Southern) Netherlands.
I can imagine the towns to be really small towns, but still...
While that's a very valid point, ATM I more inclined to try the bonus on cottages-towns.
There are not that many good town places in England after all, and some urbanization does fit Britain as well.
Why not give them +1commerce and +1production but prevent them from becoming towns?
This would be good if the workshops can come earlier for England. The biggest problem atm is that England can't build workshops until guilds, which is too late to be of any value in the first UHV.
Perhaps the English UP should be that England builds "collective villages" instead of workshops. These give +2 and +1 and are buildable with feudalism instead of guilds. So assuming England runs serfdom and manorialism they have a choice between:
Even more elegant would be an additional invisable tech that gives access to workshops that is automatically researched when guilds is researched. Then you can let England start with this invisible tech and allow England to start building workshops from the get go not unlike the Arabian civs.
Actually something similar to what Swarbs proposed is way more elegant:
That basically means the English get a unique workshop improvement, which is available earlier.
There are many examples for that, mostly with unique units though.
Anyway, while this isn't something new, it's also a fairly good solution.
England needs it's UP earlier, and it does solves that.
But didn't you say that Cottage Economy was most certainly tied to Cottages/Villages?
Actually something similar to what Swarbs proposed is way more elegant:
That basically means the English get a unique workshop improvement, which is available earlier.
There are many examples for that, mostly with unique units though.
Anyway, while this isn't something new, it's also a fairly good solution.
England needs it's UP earlier, and it does solves that.
But didn't you say that Cottage Economy was most certainly tied to Cottages/Villages?
It was tied to the cottages and villages, but more about the specific way the English used them. In particular the English common rights tended to be broader than those of other feudal nations, giving peasants the right not only to fish, graze and cut wood but also to extract minerals, quarry stone and cut turf for fuel.
The continental system was more about larger market towns, probably represented well by the current continental system. The English system had some large market towns, but the smaller population meant there were more villages with agriculture based on the open field system and common rights, as well as a mixture of merchants and artisans.
So making the English version of the workshop into a unique type of English feudal / collective village with production and commerce bonuses would represent the English form of feudalism which arose after the Norman conquest.
It was tied to the cottages and villages, but more about the specific way the English used them. In particular the English common rights tended to be broader than those of other feudal nations, giving peasants the right not only to fish, graze and cut wood but also to extract minerals, quarry stone and cut turf for fuel.
The continental system was more about larger market towns, probably represented well by the current continental system. The English system had some large market towns, but the smaller population meant there were more villages with agriculture based on the open field system and common rights, as well as a mixture of merchants and artisans.
So making the English version of the workshop into a unique type of English feudal / collective village with production and commerce bonuses would represent the English form of feudalism which arose after the Norman conquest.
I'm thinking about it.
It's now sure that the UP will be changed, either to something like this or to the bonus to cottages version.
Do you have a proposal for a fitting name for this, which isn't tied to cottages/hamlets/villages/towns or workshops?
Might be difficult
EDIT: actually, the name can be associated with workshops, but we shouldn't use names from improvements which can be built simultaneously to avoid confusion.
I'm thinking about it.
It's now sure that the UP will be changed, either to something like this or to the bonus to cottages version.
Do you have a proposal for a fitting name for this, which isn't tied to cottages/hamlets/villages/towns or workshops?
Might be difficult
EDIT: actually, the name can be associated with workshops, but we shouldn't use names from improvements which can be built simultaneously to avoid confusion.
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The problem must have been something with my computer(settings?)
and +1
and are buildable with feudalism instead of guilds. So assuming England runs serfdom and manorialism they have a choice between:
+1
