RFCE 2.0 brainstorming thread

[Morholt]

This is a general ideas thread for 2.0, you came to the right place! I just started the discussion off that way.

Your idea is not that difficult to implement and fits thematically, I like it.

For the Mongols I had the idea that they would initially work sort of like in the Warlords scenario "Barbarians!", meaning they buy units with gold that they get from looting and razing. Eventually Ogedei dies and the initial invasion is pulled back, and from then on they act like a regular civ with the capital at Sarai Batu.

 

[alpav]

For Germany how about adding in a generic "fake" civ. Such as German city state. These would be similar to independants but with the HRE flag and the abuility to vote. The city states would be seperated by real civ such as bohemia and burgundy.

 

[ezzlar]

The seljuk invasion is over, I had to fight 16 seljuks. It used to be 60-70 seljuks. But the addition of a Seljuk civ removes that problem

 

[Michael Vick]

For Germany how about adding in a generic "fake" civ. Such as German city state. These would be similar to independants but with the HRE flag and the abuility to vote. The city states would be seperated by real civ such as bohemia and burgundy.

I think city states would be great, but more as minor civs because I would still like to interact with them. Vassals, open borders, etc. There need to be some involved in unions such as Hannover to England, etc. I do however think that Bavaria deserves its own full playable civ.

 

[zwei833]

For Germany how about adding in a generic "fake" civ. Such as German city state. These would be similar to independants but with the HRE flag and the abuility to vote. The city states would be seperated by real civ such as bohemia and burgundy.

I don't think so. The german civ in 1.0 is very similar to the "german states" now ,and the players can control it

 

[eris23]

If you were to add more german nations, germany 1.0 would have to be abandoned and replaced by by two or three civs (preferably from the list of historical secular electors, The Palatinate, Brandenburg, Saxony and Bohemia). Minor civ cities within the HRE would serve as the ecclesical electors -and remaining electors that didn't make it into the mod-, as well as to determine your status within the HRE. Basically, if you conquer one of those cities the HRE will hate you and you can kiss those 3 or so votes goodbye...it will also invoke the ire of the emperor and should pretty much automatically strip your title if you are the current emperor. (this hate from the empire would of course diminish over time)
It's in the interest of the emperor to keep them intact as he'd get tax/troop boni depending on how many intact/neutral city states there are within the HRE.

Maybe that's not within the scope of this mod though.

 

[The Flame8]

The German minor civs idea is great! Just it needs to be balanced, otherwise Germany with get crushed. I recommend using almost all of RFCE++ especially the extra civs to keep it interesting.

Note: The SoI guys have a great thing set up for non-playable civs that are there to compete and keep things interesting. Getting some in Germany and elsewhere would keep things competetive.

EDIT: I agree that Bavaria needs to be an independent playable civ

 

[urban]

Totally in favor of the multiple german civs. I'd also like to advocate for the baltic states of RFCE++. Prussia, Novgorod and the three scandinavian states makes that area great. I really think these should be included. Aragon was great too. Scotland, honestly, I'm less interested in. As for Bohemia, though I am a lover of all things Czech, I don't think that was that interesting to play.

As I remember, the point of RFCE2 was to get more room for more civs in the main area of Europe. Therefore I'm less interested in expanding towards the Caucases, etc.

 

[zwei833]

The German minor civs idea is great! Just it needs to be balanced, otherwise Germany with get crushed. I recommend using almost all of RFCE especially the extra civs to keep it interesting.

Note: The SoI guys have a great thing set up for non-playable civs that are there to compete and keep things interesting. Getting some in Germany and elsewhere would keep things competetive.

EDIT: I agree that Bavaria needs to be an independent playable civ

But why not playable german civs? many players would want to play them if they really in the game .
Make playable german civs or don't change the 1.0 germany , otherwise we will have no german civs to play

 

[alpav]

No, I'm not sure but maybe Germany should become Brandenburg? I am not very aware of German history but the reason I proposed the city state idea wast to not have so many new civs slow down the game but rather to add generic city states. One city would be called hannover, connacht etc...

 

[zwei833]

No, I'm not sure but maybe Germany should become Brandenburg? I am not very aware of German history but the reason I proposed the city state idea wast to not have so many new civs slow down the game but rather to add generic city states. One city would be called hannover, connacht etc...

The 1.0 Germany is the generic German states, the flag of german civ is the double-head eagle flag(the flag of the whole empire) and the first city is Frankfurt (though there were no exactly "capital" of the Holy Roman Empire, the Reichstag was set in Frankfurt ).
Brandenburg is just one of the german states ,though it is one of the 7 electoral states , Brandenburg had never become the main part of Germany or elected to be the Emperor . Why do you think it can be the only playable german civ?

 

[ezzlar]

I think you are thinking too much about historical accuracy about your favorite part of Europe rather than hos Civ 4 is played.

 

[Sian]

RFCE++ allready have Bohemia and Prussia ... rework them slightly, and spilt the current German civ, up into a Swabia and a Saxony, and then we have 4 relatively equal Germanized Civs to duke it out ...

Maybe borrowing the concept of Titles from SoI letting them Improve stability if they capture a certain ammount of Germany Provinces

 

[Wessel V1]

I think you are thinking too much about historical accuracy about your favorite part of Europe rather than hos Civ 4 is played.

I'd like to quote this in general.

As for 2.0 ideas, I don't know too much about RFCE++ but we should preserve the competition between civs. I don't think the Muscovy area should be almost twice as big for example, even with the inclusion of Novgorod. Also, I don't think stretching the map towards the Caucasus is a good idea, those 10 (I think) tiles east are only used in a very small area of the map. In Russia, it would have no use to have them. Also, more tiles in those regions means less room to create more space in Europe, which is AFAIK the main purpose of the new map. I'm not going to argue about it's size, but the original values should be preserved.

 

[ezzlar]

Titles would be a great addition: HRE, King of Jerusalem, defender of the faith etc

 

[Morholt]

Actually a number of important places are in the eastenmost 10 tiles: aside from the Caucasus there's Baghdad, Astrakhan, Sarai and Kazan. Because of the projection we've chosen the northeastern part of European Russia (which would have been useless) is not in the map.

 

[alpav]

I actually agree. It should probably be split into Swabia and Saxony (if they are major). You guys do whatever you want with the city states idea .

 

[The Flame8]

I would agree with Bavaria and Swabia as a good split if Bohemia, Prussia, Poland, and Lithuiania are still there to compete for the area. I heard that it was going to be a bigger map so splitting Germany in half wouldn't be a bad idea. Might have to make a Union for it though.

Edit: Saxony is also important, so it could get complicated. I think Bavaria, Swabia, and Saxony would be the best option

 

[Sian]

both Bavaria and Swabia would be overkill in my opinion, since they're so close together (specially when both Austria and Bohemia have spawned) ... allthrough which one of them is more important, is not something i know enough of German Mediveal history about for

 

[Michael Vick]

Do we all agree that Bavaria should be a full civ with UPs, UHVs, and playable?

The question is whether or not the developers like the idea of city states/minor civs and what exactly the details of their inclusion would be. With city state/minor civs the possibilities are endless. We wouldn't argue about which is more important, we could implement as many as we want. Saxony at Dresden, Wurrtemburg at Stuttgart are the two next important in my opinion but with single city minor civs we could have Hamburg, Hannover, Cologne, Wurzburg, Bremen... Switzerland, anybody?

With a slightly bigger map they should all be able to get pretty good capitols. There will be enough HRE activity and unions going on that they will definitely be involved. But once we've implemented that much, I don't see why we wouldn't go for Pisa, Navarra, Transylvania, Naples? The question remains for the developers, is this the direction you want the mod to go in? I think it would make sense, but it might be getting away from Civ IV as a concept. Again I, among many others it seems, however, would really like to see minor civs, at least a few in Germany. They fill in gaps.