RFCEurope: Latest Beta 4

[AbsintheRed]

What if you don't remove the inn, just reduce the cost and make it -10% war weariness, +10% esp with wine, +10% esp with barley?
The food bonuses should be dropped of course, but these don't seem bad at all...

Also now that there is no stability bonus from dungeons, maybe courthouses should have it again?
IIRC it was only removed from courthouses not to have too many stability booster buildings.

 

[Tigranes]

There is a peculiar bug with Protestant Missionary and/or Organized Religion Civic. As Sweden I have changed my Civics to OR (still being No State Religion) -- this made possible to build Orthodox and Catholic Missionaries without monasteries, but not Protestant one (I had all 3 religions in my fliped cities). I thought perhaps it is because I did not convert to Protestantism yet or did not research Printing Press (it gives you Protestant Seminary which lets you to build Protestant Missionaries). But of course I was wrong -- I only was able to build a Missionary after I had a Seminary.

So we have 2 separate issues:

1. Protestant Missionaries are not treated like other Missionaries.

2. Under Organized Religion one should only be able to build the respective religion's Missionaries without the corresponding building, so for example if you have No State Religion OR should not have any effect.

P.S. Another small remark about the names -- COrdoba respawned around late 1400s and vassalized to Poland, which is strange, but acceptable. However the name -- Province of Andalusia sounded kind of silly -- Spain already had entire Al Andalus for herself, all the Cordova's cities were in North Africa and with the Almoravid/Almohad Capital of Marakesh. Given how little do we represent thouse 2 Caliphats in our game it could be a nice touch to name respawned Cordova as Almohad Caliphate, if capital of respawned Cordoba happens to be in North Africa...

 

[Mardouro]

I would also prefer that no more buildings be removed.. since the alphas we've already lost the monument, grocer, artisan shop, siege workshop, scriptorium, etc..
The inn just needs to be more attractive to build like AbsintheRed said.

btw, could you change the bonus of the orthodox monastery to +25% like the catholic monastery?

Also, the market should have just one merchant slot, otherwise we have too many great merchants being born in the begining of the game instead of great prophets, and the religious corporations only appear around 1300 (a bit too late, after the crusades)

 

[3Miro]

1. Protestant Missionaries are not treated like other Missionaries.

2. Under Organized Religion one should only be able to build the respective religion's Missionaries without the corresponding building, so for example if you have No State Religion OR should not have any effect.

1. I think this is intended, however, you should be able to build Protestant Missionaries under OR.

2. I am not sure this is easily done. We can try to stop players from building Missionaries of non-state Religion i.e. change the entire "prerequisite religion" thing. Last I checked (some time ago) you could found a Knight Templars with Orthodox Bulgaria so long as you don't remove Catholicism from Regusa. I can make it so that you cannot found any knight order or build any building that requires religion unless that religion is your state religion.

 

[3Miro]

I would also prefer that no more buildings be removed.. since the alphas we've already lost the monument, grocer, artisan shop, siege workshop, scriptorium, etc..
The inn just needs to be more attractive to build like AbsintheRed said.

btw, could you change the bonus of the orthodox monastery to +25% like the catholic monastery?

Also, the market should have just one merchant slot, otherwise we have too many great merchants being born in the begining of the game instead of great prophets, and the religious corporations only appear around 1300 (a bit too late, after the crusades)

The Inn should either go, or be completely changed. We can make it +2 espionage, 1 merchant and 1 spy slots (also change the Market to only one merchant slot).

I don't have Civ right now, do Catholic monasteries give more Science boost than the Orthodox ones?

 

[Mardouro]

Yes, catholic monasteries give +25% and orthodox give +10%.

The inn could be:
+2 espionage.
+10% gold with wine.
1 spy slot.
requires brewery.
required to build the coffe house.

but if now university comes with philosophy, the inn would go where?

 

[AbsintheRed]

The inn can be a totally espionage based building
+2 esp
+1 esp or +10% esp with wine
+1 esp or +10% esp with barley (since it is based on the brewery, this means ale)
-10% war weariness - this can also stay IMO
1 spy slot

Right now the beaker bonuses: university has 25%, cath monastery has 25%, orth monastery has 10%, house of wisdom has 100%, all seminaries has 25%
cath. monastery was definitely a mistake

EDIT: missed mardouro's post
+10% gold with wine and barley also works

 

[3Miro]

Inn
+2 esp
+10% gold with wine
-10% war weariness
1 spy slot
I will have to look at the tech three to put it on a better spot. Philosophy is definitely a bad one and we already have many tings on the Guilds, so I don't know off hand.

Barley already has an extra bonus from Brewery, we shouldn't add more.

If we put Universities to 20%, monasteries should be 15%. There is no reason fro Catholics having better bonus. House of Wisdom was intended for the Muslims, that one is OK.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Hey, papa1!
What exactly do you want to be changed on the kievian settler maps?
I already changed Kiyev to Kyiv, Bielgorod to Bilgorod, Ovrutch to Ovruch based on this everywhere it was spelled differently and fixed a few other things, but overally the cities seems fine to me

 

[civ_king]

The Protestant Reformation has been fixed in Beta 4 right?

 

[AbsintheRed]

Should be working fine now
The problem was with a few missed entries for scriptorums or seminaries, I don't recall which one

 

[yogiebere]

Ok plague spawned in 1452 I believe. I was English. It started in Leiria Portugal and spread to a few cities, including my British Amsterdam city. However it had issues continuing to spread. And was spreading maybe a city every other turn. Only about 4 or 5 known civs had plague about 7 turns later. Plus plague never spread to any city other than Amsterdam in my empire

1440 and 1479 are included ("plague bug" = 1440), would you like 1452 as well?

 

[Wessel V1]

I once experienced something similar with Austria: the plague spread to Rostock but not to the other parts of my empire. Could it be that the plague can only once infect an empire, and once it infects a far away city, you are safe?

 

[3Miro]

I once experienced something similar with Austria: the plague spread to Rostock but not to the other parts of my empire. Could it be that the plague can only once infect an empire, and once it infects a far away city, you are safe?

No. Plague should spread to other cities via trade-routes. However, if it is a distant city, then you will be better off than if it were your capital, it may take an extra turn or two to spread throughout your empire and that is couple of extra "plague free" turns.

 

[3Miro]

Ok plague spawned in 1452 I believe. I was English. It started in Leiria Portugal and spread to a few cities, including my British Amsterdam city. However it had issues continuing to spread. And was spreading maybe a city every other turn. Only about 4 or 5 known civs had plague about 7 turns later. Plus plague never spread to any city other than Amsterdam in my empire

1440 and 1479 are included ("plague bug" = 1440), would you like 1452 as well?

On the second savegame, the one where the Plague had already started, England was immune from the plague. I am not entirely sure why. When I replayed the other one, it was all fine, we all got sick.

This may have something to do with the cities conquered. It will require more investigation.

 

[youtien]

Yes, catholic monasteries give +25% and orthodox give +10%.

The inn could be:
+2 espionage.
+10% gold with wine.
1 spy slot.
requires brewery.
required to build the coffe house.

but if now university comes with philosophy, the inn would go where?

If orthodox monasteries keep weaker, they could be cheaper than catholic ones, or gain some other bonus, like +4 culture, 1 priest slot, etc.

 

[3Miro]

If orthodox monasteries keep weaker, they could be cheaper than catholic ones, or gain some other bonus, like +4 culture, 1 priest slot, etc.

There is no reason for Orthodox monasteries to be weaker. I changed it for the next beta already.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Yeah, all monasteries should be the same
What will be the science boost for them?

 

[merijn_v1]

I think the temples and monasteries don't require state-religion, but cathedral do. And no matter what the religion is, the bonus for the buildings should be even.

 

[AbsintheRed]

On the second savegame, the one where the Plague had already started, England was immune from the plague. I am not entirely sure why. When I replayed the other one, it was all fine, we all got sick.

This may have something to do with the cities conquered. It will require more investigation.

Yeah, I remember experiencing something like this
When you capture a city with plague before it spread to your civ, it messes up the whole spreading mechanics

Sometimes I was immune of the plague, never spread to my core cities
But once in Beta 3 it spread 1 by 1 to all cities (always one/turn), and never disappeared from them. Tested it, and not after a couple hundred years