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Rhye's and Fall of Civilization: the Boardgame

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by Rhye, May 4, 2008.

  1. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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  2. TMF

    TMF Chieftain

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    Really great mod for the original Civilization: Boardgame!

    Now this expansive Boardgame is balanced and playable. Thank you for that!

    Three friends of mine and me tried this game now twice and we really like it. Just in the second game 1 player was fast out because of bad luck in marker and positioning...

    Question: We don't really know how to interprete the carthaginian power action card "numidians". When can you use these 5 swordsmen? In the movement phase? So that you dont play this action card in the action phase but in the movement phase, so that you can move the 5 swordsmen in the same round?

    The wonder pyramids: Do you choose a player who skips his action phase in the same round or in the following round?

    Thank you!

    Thomas
     
  3. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    hi!
    you place the numidians during the action, and you can move them normally the turn later, during movement.

    As for pyramids, it's next time the player does an action: can be this turn, if he still has to play the card, or next one.
     
  4. Zippadeedoodah

    Zippadeedoodah Chieftain

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    Hi TMF,

    Question: We don't really know how to interprete the carthaginian power action card "numidians". When can you use these 5 swordsmen? In the movement phase? So that you dont play this action card in the action phase but in the movement phase, so that you can move the 5 swordsmen in the same round?

    It is an action card, so you select and play it as your action during the action round. The action is merely to place 5 units. Subsequently you get to perform another action of your choice. You cannot move the new units until the next movement phase (next turn).

    Note: make sure that the backs of the regular action cards and the backs of these unique power action cards look the same. Otherwise it will not be a secret action if you choose your unique power.

    The wonder pyramids: Do you choose a player who skips his action phase in the same round or in the following round?

    As soon as you build the Pyramids (with a Construction action), you choose a player who skips his action the next time he would normally play an action card. If the player is after you in turn order, he will not get to perform his selected action this turn. If he was before you in turn order, and therefore already played his action this turn, he will skip the action step during the next turn.

    Just my two cents.
     
  5. TMF

    TMF Chieftain

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    Thank you!

    When being Buddhist, can my stability level fall to civil war, without facing the effects of civil war (but the collapsing effects) or do I stay at "collapsing"?

    When I am in a civil war and switch to Buddhism, do I get one stability level for free or do I stuck in civil war?

    Thanks alot,

    Thomas
     
  6. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    When being Buddhist, can my stability level fall to civil war, without facing the effects of civil war (but the collapsing effects) or do I stay at "collapsing"?

    Stay at collapsing

    When I am in a civil war and switch to Buddhism, do I get one stability level for free or do I stuck in civil war?

    You get one for free
     
  7. TMF

    TMF Chieftain

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    yesterday, we played our most interesting game up to now. we made some changes that worked very fine and made the game more balanced in our opinion:

    1. Astrology - no free technology, but one free galone with free infantry loaded
    2. resources - horses needed to build mounted units; iron needed to build siege units; oil needed to build tanks

    these changes prevent from technological race. we played some games where one player had just 1 or 2 settlements and researched almost every round. then he came with 1 or 2 modern units to win the game...

    in addition the astrology change makes sure that there will be a fleet in the game. one free tech is too strong!

    what do you think about these changes?

    in the next game (this evening) we will try to implement some additional changes:

    1. fighter - suppurt attacking units with 3, defending units with 4. in additional with the possiblity to use the battleship as an aircraft carrier (can carry one fighter) it makes a defending fleet possible. without this change it is not possible to hold a fleet when not first to move after a opponents recruitment. this defending bonus is good for land battles too, because the strongest defender unit is just 7 while attacking is 10

    2. we have to restrict the trade in some way. in a 3 player game you cannot hold a strong position when the others work together. when everything is allowed you can do very mean things, such as giving all units to the other player because he is first in the next round to fight the third player... or no limits in trading technologies: one player is receiving one technology from the other player for free before playing researching card. then buying the following tech for 40 and research a new one to give it to the player who gave the first tech to him. these possibilities in trade have to be limited to balance the game. do you have an idea how this could work?

    3. we will reduce the price for the nuke to 80.

    what do you think about these changes?

    some gameplay questions:

    1. when discovered flights it is possible to trade with anyone, even if their is no "unit contact". is that right?

    2. when researching computers you get all the techs that other players have at this moment, not the ones that they get in future. right?

    3. are there rules for aircraft carriers?

    4. sea battle: in recruitment you build a ship in a terretory where is an hostile ship.
    if you are last to build and first to move, can you move your new built ship without fighting?
    if you the other player is first to move, can he leave the terretory?

    5. leaning tower: the free taxition does not include the new build settlements and city upgrades from the same construction phase. right?

    6. statue of liberty: if you chose taxation as additional action card, the taxation does include the new build settlements and city upgrades from the construction phase. because there are two different actions. right?

    7. two or more fighters can't support one unit. right?

    civilization boardgame with your mod can really become a hard competitor to axis and allies for us! thanks for that!

    greetings,

    Thomas
     
  8. Dave Lawson

    Dave Lawson Chieftain

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    First off, I gotta say good work on this mod. Hopefully it'll succeed in breathing some much needed life into an old game otherwise bound for the recycle bin.

    Some friends and I sat down to play this earlier today, and I'm going to recount some specific issues we encountered.

    We played the game for something near to 5 hours, total, although a fair bit of time was well spent on beer and food. It was the first time any of us had played the mod. By the end of the alotted time, two players were about 60% of the way towards victory (one by domination, and another by technology). It didn't go as fast as I had hoped, but I blame a lot of that on myself for not having been familiar enough with the ruleset. Next time we play, 5 hours ought to be plenty.

    Most issues revolved around stability. 2 players neglected theirs in the beginning and got bit by it. Once bit, twice shy. Only one further revolt check needed to be made. Our first confusion came from revolt checks. With five players, the rulesheet states that only the first two players need make the revolt check. We interpreted this to mean that only the first two players *who risk revolt* need make the revolt check, as opposed to the first two players *acting that turn* need make the revolt check *as needed*. The second revolt confusion we encountered was in the wording of the stability chart. It unambiguously states that only cities can rebel, even though all settlements (villages and cities) contribute towards the unrest threshold (4 @ -1, 3 @ -2 ). We played it exactly as it was described, however, I feel that it might be a mistake, as it would be easy to create a glut of villages, and since you have no cities, you needn't worry about revolution (just imagine Buddhist Babylonians). That's why I think it was meant to read 'settlement' instead of 'city'.

    We may have been handling research incorrectly. The cards state that you may either research one tech yourself, or you may buy tech from other players for 40g etc. The rule book states that you may perform both of these actions. We went with the card's description whenever there was confusion. In the end not a single tech was purchased using the latter of the two options.

    We played using a water heavy random map (although we did not flip tiles over to keep them hudden until exploration ) of a somewhat reduced size, perhaps 40 instead of the suggested 45, and it still seemed that there were too many land territories. All but one player started on the same continent. Wars were fought to capture cities not because there was a lack of land, but rather because it was more cost effective (largely in terms of stability costs) to capture a city than to build one. Also, defense against catapults made less expensive to attack than defend. That left the victim losing more units and losing a city, and perhaps losing stability. Furthermore, even by the end of the game, only two players were within range to trade with one another. Even two players that were fighting were never within trade range.

    We made a mistake with barbarians, treating them as 'minor civilisations', and giving a hit to whoever conquered them. Perhaps that tainted our impressions of stability, but many of us were left with the impression that stability slowed down the game a great deal. In a mod who's (in my mind) raison d'etre is to speed up the game to the point where it can actually be played, I have to say I felt stability didn't work quite right. I understand that you simplified the rules for building settlements (building settlers, moving them, founding a city) in order to streamline the game. Unfortunately, by effectively requiring a player to consolidate in order to expand, it seems that you've undone that benefit in large part. In the end stability meant that our empires seemed to expand very slowly. Obviously, this in turn slowed down other parts of the game.

    I'm not saying that I dislike the stability mechanism at all. Personally I felt that hemming in super-nova style expansion is a good thing, especially in a game where starting locations can vary so greatly. I just felt like it went a bit too far, and stopped the game from getting to the 'fighting over land stage'. I was thinking that something as simple as not taking a hit for the first village you build during a construction phase would get around this. Maybe it's just us that ran into this problem, though. Next time we'll definitely play with a smaller board (perhaps 30 land provinces for 5 players), so it won't be such a big deal.

    I really don't wanna come off like I'm griping about it. We enjoyed the mod. We enjoyed it far more than we had ever enjoyed the original game. The second time we play we'll be able to finish the game, even, and my feedback will likely mean more at that point. I know criticism is important for something like this, however.

    Once again thanks a bunch!

    (no pictures I'm afraid!)
     
  9. Visard

    Visard Chieftain

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    Dave Lawson. It seems that you played construction action wrong. You only lose one stability even if you build ten new villages.

    And there are many times in the rules and in cards when the word "city" is used when it is supposed to mean settlement. I am not sure if we have played right. But in the Civilization cards Rome, Persia, Arabia and Vikings, we have replaced the word city with settlement. Also in religion Islam and in wonder the Great Wall. And of course in the revolt checks.

    TMF. In our games if somebody has just one or two settlements he will be crushed very quickly, because his taxation is too poor to make proper defense forces and the game is on the side of the attacker. Catapult > Swordsman, Knight > Pikeman ... If you want to restrict trading, you can always forbid trading technologies.

    And about your questions:
    1. I think so.
    2. Yes.
    3. Same as in the original game.
    4. We play it that you cannot built ships if there is a hostile ship in your sea territory.
    5. and 6. You count the new settlements, city upgrades and wonders. Just do it in same order as it says in the construction action card.

    We have we also played the pyramids wonder differently. It says "One other player of your choice skips their next action phase". So when next action phase begins the chosen player skips it and cannot choose an action card. It doesn't affect the current action phase.

    We have also included some house rules which you can include in the game if you want.

    -When a player loses his capital and have to move it to another settlement, his stability drops 1
    -England may only load 1 free unit when building ships. ( Because the ability is way too good )
    -Mounted units lose all they moment points when loading in and out of ships.

    And I have a question too. How exactly does Turkish unique power works? Does Turkish played need a city or is village ok? Do you get troops in the city? If not, do they stay in the city? Can opponent recapture the village in next moment phase? We have always played without the Turkey because they unique power seems really useless, as it reads in the card right now.
     
  10. Dave Lawson

    Dave Lawson Chieftain

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    Ahh, so only -1 per construction action, not per settlement built. That certainly changes things. Greatly changes things.

    We were loathe to start fudging with the rules on our first attempt to play (revealed map was one exception), and this may have been part of the problem. Next time, I'll go over everything from the mod and change city->settlement as appropriate, before we set up.

    An exhaustive list of those changes would be great, but doesn't seem to exist. So I'm gonna list what I think ought to be changed right here, and hopefully you can laugh me down where I deserve it:

    1) Revolt check. We will read it as the first x players that need to make the check actually make the check, instead of the first x players that act this turn need to make the check, if applicable.

    2) All settlements are elligible to revolt.

    3) You are able to both research one technology (for free) AND purchase one technology (for 40g) per research action.

    4) Arabia gains a free mounted unit on SETTLEMENT captured.

    5) Vikings gain 20 gold on SETTLEMENT captured.

    6) Palace DOES grant +1 D on defense.

    7) Pyramid affects the FOLLOWING turn.

    8) Astrology gives 1 galleon + 1 up-to-date-inf instead of a free tech.

    Sound about right?
     
  11. Zippadeedoodah

    Zippadeedoodah Chieftain

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    Note that a few of these items are already clarified in my reference sheet.
    (It says settlement where settlements are meant. All settlements are eligible to revolt. Palace DOES grant +1 D on defense.) Other items were actually adapted to match the cards (either research 1 tech or purchase one, not both - it was still both in an earlier version of the sheet). As to the rest, some of it is (currently at least) house-ruling, until Rhye says otherwise.
     
  12. Dave Lawson

    Dave Lawson Chieftain

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    I've a further question regarding research then. If I am only ever able to either research or purchase a tech, both of which require the pre-reqs, why would anybody ever choose to spend money instead of getting it free?
     
  13. TMF

    TMF Chieftain

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    Visard,

    thank you for answering to my post.
    Relating just having two settlements: imagine, the player finds 2 minor civ + 1 treasures and does a taxation on +2 stability which means 75g. he never constructs, just researches all the time. then, when technological leading building 2 attack and 2 defense units. no other player on the same continent can beat him. that is my point.

    if you cannot build ships, in hostile sea zones, the game is lost when your island is sourrounded by hostile ships, right?

    turkey's unique power is a very funny one when balanced. i think that you should have a city, otherwise this action is too strong, because very fast. to strenghten up this card you should get all the troops that are in the settlement, making it a passive unique power, you don't have to play, but has effect that no one can put all his troops in one settlement next to you, to start a war...

    please excuse my bad english!

    So long, TMF
     
  14. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    TMF, did you intend the prerequisites as "AND" gates?

    as for your questions:

    1. right
    2. right
    4. Both can leave the territory without fighting
    5. yes it does
    6. they are included
    7. there are no limitations



    More q&a:

    The first two players acting that turn do the check, if they are in danger.




    Indeed, it was a mistype







    I'm posting a new version soon, with the fixes you mentioned:

    - nukes cost 80.
    - fighters can land on battleships
    - England may only load 1 free unit when building ships
    - 1 per construction action, not per settlement built, written clearly. But max 3 settlements can be built
    - the word "settlement" replaces city where needed
    - turkish UP made more clear. You need a city, but will convert units too. That's how it was intended
    - Written clearly: you are able to both research one technology (for free) AND purchase one technology (for 40g) per research action. But you must have the prereqs for that tech
    - revolt check made more clear in the rules sheet
    - New trade limits (max 1 tech, max 3 units). No more than that. It's impossible to keep your friends from behaving like bastards...
    - less strong roman UP
    - astronomy bonus changed to something more interesting
     
  15. Ignorunt

    Ignorunt Chieftain

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    Rhye (and other contributors), thank you for this wonderful mod!

    Are the playing cards and reference sheets available in SVG vector format? I'd like to be able to print them at very high resolution.

    Can't wait for the updated mods! :D
     
  16. Ignorunt

    Ignorunt Chieftain

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    I have some game play questions...

    1. When a settlement goes into revolt, and there are units there, what happens to the units if there is no neighboring empty or friendly territory (like on an island)? Are they lost? Can they go back to the capital? Are they stuck on that territory and forced to fight the rebels on the next turn?

    2. In the FAQ, it says that a friendly city is "a city belonging to a player who's not at war with you". When is a player considered to be "at war" with you, and when is he not?

    3. For the recruitment action, is it "purchase units AND/OR upgrade units", or "purchase units OR upgrade units"?

    4. When playing the Carthage and France unique powers, is the placement of the 5 new units subject to the unit building limit rules (2 per city, 1 per village)? What if there aren't enough settlements to place all 5 new units? Must the 5 new units be placed on one or more settlements, or can they be placed in any friendly territory?

    5. Where can the 2 free infantry units obtained by Islam be placed? Only in the newly founded/conquered settlement?
     
  17. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    1. move to the closest free territory

    2. ask him! "Are we at war?"

    3. my original intention was AND/OR. So, I'm gonna correct the card.

    4. no

    5. yes
     
  18. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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  19. Visard

    Visard Chieftain

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    We have played it so that if you have a ship near the island or coast you can move your troops there. But if there are no friendly or empty territories or ships, then you units get killed. But of course you can always chooce settlements which have those.

    We have also used rule that you cannot move those same troops again this turn, because sneaky players could use this to make a blitz attack.
     
  20. Ignorunt

    Ignorunt Chieftain

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    Thank you for the answers!

    Going back to my question #4:

    4. When playing the Carthage and France unique powers, is the placement of the 5 new units subject to the unit building limit rules (2 per city, 1 per village)? What if there aren't enough settlements to place all 5 new units? Must the 5 new units be placed on one or more settlements, or can they be placed in any friendly territory?

    You said the 5 new units are NOT subject to the unit building rules. So does this mean I can place the 5 new units in any friendly territory? Even all 5 units in one territory?

    I'll try to get a game going this Saturday and will report back on the results. Any chance the game cards will be updated before then?
     

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