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Rhye's of Civilization - the fastest loading mod Expanded

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Modpacks' started by Rhye, Feb 5, 2004.

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Rate this mod!

  1. I can't play Civ without this: no more loading times!

    203 vote(s)
    66.6%
  2. A good mod, but I won't play with it

    54 vote(s)
    17.7%
  3. I don't like the map

    13 vote(s)
    4.3%
  4. I don't like the terrain

    9 vote(s)
    3.0%
  5. I don't like the additions

    5 vote(s)
    1.6%
  6. I don't like the rules changes

    21 vote(s)
    6.9%
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  1. Warrior05

    Warrior05 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5
    I havea problem i cant download, i think its the file type, cause it opens as a windows media player (?)
    im in need of help<>?<>?<>?<>?<>?<>?
     
  2. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
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    Location:
    Chicago
    Go download winRAR at rarsoft.com
     
  3. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

    Joined:
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    If you and I mean the same thing (not up to date on achronyms ;p) I doubt there will be much of a conflict... err... wait... never mind yes there will because a copyleft prevents sale of the copylefted material and is also transmitted into derivative works... I guess you could use some of the basic ideas from it but leave some caveats (allow sale only by expressed agreement of creator) and also leave the possibility of abrogating the transmission into derivative works.

    Apparently a Man of War is an acceptable term for ANY ship (a ship being a boat with sails of course ;p) whose primary function is military.

    A galleon is an incredibly versatile vessel that could be converted both to and from military usage, and seems to have been the basis for most ship types. In fact, it seems that there are no ships designated as entirely military until about the late 1600s or early 1700s.

    ... basically, I can find nothing either way really as to a ship design that was uniquely British... I think I am beginning to understand how frustrated the people at Firaxis get ;p
     
  4. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

    Joined:
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    Recommended changes to ships in order to implement Age of Sail ships:

    - Increase the A&D values of all ships Ironclad and beyond by two points
    - As a baseline, the Ironclad becomes a 7.8

    - Galleon
    - Primary Transport Ship
    - AD changed to 3/3
    - HP -1
    - Bombard changed to 4/1/1
    - Movement set to 25 Ignore S/O

    - Man O War
    - UU
    - AD changed to 3/4
    - HP standard
    - Bombard changed to 5/1/1
    - Movement changed to 25 Igonore S/O
    - Transports 2 additional units
    - Remove enslave ability

    - Frigate
    - Primary Escort Ship
    - AD changed to 3/4
    - HP +1
    - Bombard changed to 5/0/1
    - Movement set to 25 Ignore S/O

    - Ship of the Line
    - Primary Combat Ship
    - AD changed to 5/3
    - HP +1
    - Movement set to 22 Ignore S/O
    - Bombard set to 5/1/2
    - Enslave results in Frigate
    - Lethal Sea Bombard (?)

    - Privateer
    - Secondary Combat Ship
    - AD changed to 5/1
    - HP -1
    - Movement set to 11, Ignore C/S/O
    - Defensive bombard removed
    - Enslaves Privateers


    Remember that I did some heavy reading tonight before producing this list. I have no idea about what a good pricetag would be for these ships, but I think the logic of the above system is apparent to all. Now its you people's turn! ;p

    Another advantage of these increases is that there is *almost* no way the ironclad can be easily defeated by a wooden ship. Too bad there isnt some way to just mark it as unbeatable vs X where X equals wooden ships ;p

    QUESTIONS:

    SoL requires escort yes/no?

    SoL LSB yes/no?

    Change MoW to a SoL UU with various improvements in stats (please suggest the stats as well!)?
     
  5. Barak

    Barak Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,484
    Location:
    Chicago
    Its also interesting since I think of spanish galleons as sailing in the 16th and 17th centuries, while the big 74s and first rates to be ships of the late 18th and early 19th centuries.

    Any thought to moving the galleon and MoW to astronomy instead of mercantilism? That would reflect the multi-purpose galleon preceeding the military frigate.

    @Aeon--I like your list, but I liked the theory of the MoW enslave ability. Especially since the British Royal Navy was filled with French and Dutch built ships.
     
  6. Micromegas

    Micromegas Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Messages:
    117
    Right on spot there, Aeon. Ok, guess I have to do some reading on licenses. Maybe I'll ask slashdot :D that also could help to bring some more attention to RoC. Just kidding, I don't want to be responsible for bringing the forum to its kness. Anyway, Rhye needs to think about this issues in the last instance, but if I can be of help with some directions that's cool. Anyway, I think by tomorrow morning I'll have a first version of the installer itself, to add a license with some checkbox should be a breeze. The basics of making an installer are easier than I thought actually, the only prob I still can't figure out is how to check for the conquests directory and the patch status. Ah well, I never claimed to be a professional coder or anything, guess we'll have to live with that for the moment.
    Oh and GPL is Gnu Public License, where Gnu means (G)nu is (n)ot (u)nix.
     
  7. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

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    @ MM: OOOH I have heard of that! That was listed in the history of copyleft! ...but I will admit to knowing little more than that ;p

    @Barak: You will notice that the SoL enslaves Frigates, because I also liked the idea of navies full of captured ships. However, I seem to recall that many navies practiced this same strategy of capturing and utilizing enemy ships (Suffren (French) did this in India for certain). I think we can assume that most navies would understand as simple a concept as this.

    Since it gives them a defensive warship (one designed mostly for escorts and blockades, but also limited cruising) it is a very valuable trait. My biggest gripe with the changes I have listed is that the Frigate is capable of duking it out with a ship of the line in actual combat... but since I consider bombardment to be the actual line combat... and since the Frigate lacks this... I think it makes up for it.

    One change I would suggest (going to edit the original post for it) is to give the SoL Lethal Sea Bombard as yet another ability in order to make it extremely important.

    I really did try and post stats that force roles similar to those of the actual ships. For instance, SoLs will only be useful when protected by smaller ships, but in fleets will dominate all that opposes them. Frigates will be more useful for escort missions and patrols, but not very effective at major combat in an offensive role (despite being essential for defense). Galleons are more multipurpose, with equal A&D and ok bombardment. They basically can do anything, but nothing well.

    The British MoW (retaining its Galleon position in Rhye's upgrade tree) can do everything the Galleon can, but better. It can operate independently of frigates (VERY VALUABLE!) but is best utilized in conjunction with them. It seems that I have accidentally made frigates more valuable than they should be... but really, this is the only way to make them at all useful ;p

    I do not think it will really be necessary to move ships from their current positions on the tech tree.
     
  8. Micromegas

    Micromegas Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Messages:
    117
    OK... I'll admit I'm old enough to losse hair where I don't like and grow additional in exchange where I don't like it neither... err anyway, on the C64 the original Pirates! featured frigattes too, they took a spot less powerfull then a war galleon (there where the trading kind also, which a frigatte usually sunk rather easily as it outmaneuvered them) but somewhat faster. If I take SoL for war galleon (as an early version thereof) that seems to fit in just nicely into your scheme. I have some issue with privateers though, but that's more general... pirates used to utilize whatever ship they could get a hold on IIRC. But I see no way how to represent that, too bad it is not possible to add aditional flags... and link that to a building maybe, so all sailing ships could become privateers at some cost. But besides of that I must admit I like it.
     
  9. Gunner

    Gunner Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2004
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    Location:
    Goochland, VA
    Give the MoW its enslave back and I would be completely satisfied with Aeon's proposal. And the SoL should have LSB I think.

    Wow, there are definitely waaaay to many confusing abbreviations floating around. :lol:
     
  10. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

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    I removed the MoW's Enslave because it has become primarily a defensive ship: any engagements are most likely to be defensive, and therefore should not result in an enslave... or am I completely wrong about enslave?

    Anyway, giving it enslave defeats the purpose of giving the SoL enslave. That ship is intended to fill out the ranks of the various fleets. Giving another ship that role (and especially a non-combat ship) seems somewhat goofy.

    Does anyone else think that the SoL should require escorts?
     
  11. Micromegas

    Micromegas Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
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    117
    Yes it should require escorts or face considerable risks from attacks of faster ships. But I think the privateer is a bit overpowered on the attack side, I'd like it better with a4 and a little faster in exchange... or maybe increased range of view or whatever that's called in English. Just too represent the fact that mobility and intimate knowledge of the seas always was a pirates best defence.

    Btw, basic installer now working... well, hopefully, I just started a sissy incan game. Did anyone encounter any errors with the patch? And I could make use of the textfiles I talked about earlier now. I'd like some people who got the patched version running without errors to do the following plz:
    open a prompt, browwse to your conquest/scenarios folder there (cd changes directory), then do the next step for each RoC folder - type "dir /b /s > $nameoffolder.txt" (replace $nameoffolder with surprise :D the name of the folder). This will result in a textfile sitting in that folder containing a list of all files. Then post back here and attach the files, that way I can doublecheck what needs to be copied. Two or three will do nicely. Thanks for your cooperation. ;)
     
  12. bshirt

    bshirt Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2002
    Messages:
    82
    Hey Ryhe!

    Hmmm, playing 1.1 as the French (I love to surrender!), I notice in the very early game I can't produce Warriors anymore, only Swordsmen....as if I had Iron as a resource.

    However, I haven't reached Iron yet and it doesn't show in my cities resource box. What's up with that? Maybe that's how the new patch works?

    Thanks!
     
  13. Micromegas

    Micromegas Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Messages:
    117
    Is that right from the start, bshirt? In that case it must be an issue with your install, I just checked and can't confirm.
     
  14. Three_Crowns

    Three_Crowns Information Retrieval

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    171
    Location:
    Cph, Denmark
    @Aeon: I like your list, but maybe privateers and frigates should be faster. That way, you will need frigates to catch the privateers. Also, you could make frigates and privateers the only military ships that does not require resources. Then they could be the poor civs navy.

    @Rhye: As said earlier, I can get free space for the RoC/RoCX-installer with a good connection.

    @bshirt: Swordsmen does not require iron in this mod. Oh, and warrior upgrades to spearman - they do not require iron either.

    @MM: Here you are.

    And just to make sure. Rhye, have you seen this?:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/announcement.php?f=51
    It is about the Firaxis scenario designer job.
     
  15. Taijian

    Taijian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
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    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    One other thing I noticed (dunno if this has already been adressed): In 1.01 the roman ballista upgrades to the trebuchet which is no better but more expensive. Maybe this could be fixed in a future patch or is it itentional?
     
  16. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Japan / South America
    A major problem is speed.

    galleons and SoL should be very slow (no more than 7/20/20)

    The fact that the galleass (9/9/9) upgrades to something slower (SoL) is a major problem.

    Another problem: Galleons should probably be a bit earlier, but I can't put them too close to caravels.
     
  17. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    Taijian->Thanks for the notice, I'll fix it

    bshirt->In the editor everything's allright. Did you consider that warriors upgrade to spearmen?

    Three clowns->thanks I didn't know. I have to send the mail again.
     
  18. Three_Crowns

    Three_Crowns Information Retrieval

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    What is with the Clowns?!? :lol:
     
  19. V. Soma

    V. Soma CFC Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,370
    Location:
    Hungary
    Hi to all!

    Now how is SG standing?

    I have no internet at home, or only limited (only mailing), so I would take part as player.

    I think if everybody plays 20 turns or so, and file is picked up every 2 days, then it is about err, some 40-50 days?
    Maybe waiting for save file can be shortened. But updating the story at the thread I can manage only from my workplace - that is, after the day playing my part...
    And I don't know about Xmas time, it makes things a bit confusing
    (but even then I can solve that)

    All in all, I want to do it!

    When to begin? :)
     
  20. Procrastinator

    Procrastinator Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Australia
    Rhye (& team),

    Absolutely wonderful job on the expansion pack. Currently getting whipped as Carthaginians :sad:

    Just found a "Gaulish" tribe in a goody hut off the east coast of Africa. Can't remember if this is programmed or not so I thought I'd mention it.

    Talking to a very passionate "Age of Sail" (not a game, a period in history) friend who might be able to shed a lot of light on the current discussion re SoL, MoW, etc. He likes most of what you've suggested Aeon FWIW. Will let you know asap.

    Anyway, back to the game.
     
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