Rhye's of Europe Civ Discussion Thread

[onedreamer]

@ijnavy where did you read that the Russians were obsessed about CONQUERING Constantinopolis ?

 

[ijnavy]

Should Spain spawn as the Visigoths?

 

[Disenfrancised]

For independents...Slavic, Celtic, Gothic, Berber, and something for the middle?

I'd suggest:
Celtic Independent: Gallicia, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Brittany
Germanic Independent: England, Saxony, Lombardy, Bavaria, Brandenberg, Swabia/Switzerland
Slavic Independent: Bohemia, Morovia, Rutherian lands, Tver, Novgorod, Serbia, Pre-spawn Poland
Mediterreanian Indepedent: Visogothic Iberia, Aragon, Southern France, Some bits of Italy, the Balkans and any Anatolian cities the Byzantines don't get off the bat.
Barbarians: North Africa (pirates!), Norway, Baltics, Kazan, Bulgaria before the civ spawns

 

[ijnavy]

Lets start fro the begining:
Byzantine Empire 500 AD
THE Byzantine Empire- The Empire of Nicea- The Byzantine Empire
Leaders: Justinian and Basil II
Favorite Religion: ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY
Unique Unit:
Unique Building:
Unique Power:"The Power of the Emperor"
Cannot collapse due to poor stability while running [appropriate government civic].
Unique Historical Victory:
1. Control the Balkans, Italy, and Anatolia in 1200.
2. ?
3. ?
_____________________________________________
The Franks- Neustria- Frankish Kingdom-West Frankish Kingdom-Frankish Kingdom- Kingdom of France-(French republic).
Franks 500 AD
Leaders: Charlemagne, (Napoleon)?
Favorite Religion: Catholic
Unique Unit:
Unique Building:
Unique Power:
Unique Historical Victory:
1. Control Iberia, Italy, and Germany in 1800/1810.
2. ?
3. Colonization
___________________________________________________
BULGARIA start 630AD
1st Bulgarian empire- 2st Bulgarian empire
Leaders: KHAN ASPARUH (Agressive, Expansive - favours VASSALAGE) TZAR SIMEON VELIKI (Philosophic, Creative - favours HEREDITARY RULE)
Favorite Religion: ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY
Unique Unit: KONNIK (replaces horse archer - uses Mongol Keshick art)
-movement 2, power 6
Unique Building: GER (replaces stable, 2 exp. points on new units)
Unique Power: POWER OF THE HORDE (Razed city causes nearby city to capitulate)
Unique Historical Victory:
1. Capture and hold 3 Byzantine cities by 1000AD
2. Control Greece and the Balkans south of the Danube
by 1400 AD (not incl. Constantinople)
3. Build 8 Orthodox monasteries and 2 Orthodox cathedrals
by 1600AD
________________________________________________________
ARABIAN EMPIRE start 630AD
Rashidun- Umayyads- Abbasids- Shadow Caliphate
Leaders: SALADIN (Protective and Spiritual) - favours THEOCRACY Harun al-Rashid?
Favorite Religion: ISLAM
Unique Unit: CAMEL ARCHER (replaces knight) strength 10, moves 2
Unique Building: MADRASSA (library)
Unique Power: THE POWER OF FAITH (State religion spreads to all conquered cities)
Unique Historical Victory
1. Control Control the Middle east, Egypt, and Anatolia by 1300AD
2. Islam to cover 30% of the world by 1500AD?
3. ?

 

[Akhera]

And what if plagues weren't random, but originated from unhealthy cities/civs?

 

[Úmarth]

On the subject of plagues, I'm of the opinion they should be largely random. However, since several major plagues originated outside of Europe (and thus outside of our "simulation") those should be scripted, with only a few turns either way randomised.

This is might be unpopular, but I also suggest that they be a lot more frequent than in RFC given the susceptibility of Medieval Europe. Although perhaps less contagious, so that outside of major plagues you might have a plague somewhere almost all the time.

 

[st.lucifer]

I'll agree that plagues should be more frequent, although I'm wondering if there's any way to vary their severity. Something like the initial appearance of the Black Death should be devastating, while a lesser, more localized plague might not be as severe or spread as far.

Basically, I'm suggesting a two-tiered system - a few massive scripted plagues, and a less severe but more common random one. Thoughts?

 

[ijnavy]

Massive plagues:
Black death: 10 turns between 1340–1370.
Small pox: 10 turns between 1740-1750.
Random, smaller plagues.

How about the person who gets elected to the Apostolic Palace becomes pope for 10 turns? When you are pope, you control Rome(you can't sacrifice its population), get +1 gold from every Catholic church in the world, and more happiness in you cities. Then the Papal states will not be a problem, since there is always a pope.

Also, is 711 good start for Cordoba? 814 for Spain, when the kingdom of Asturias was recognized.

 

[st.lucifer]

Massive plagues:
Black death: 10 turns between 1340–1370.
Small pox: 10 turns between 1740-1750.
Random, smaller plagues.

How about the person who gets elected to the Apostolic Palace becomes pope for 10 turns? When you are pope, you control Rome(you can't sacrifice its population), get +1 gold from every Catholic church in the world, and more happiness in you cities. Then the Papal states will not be a problem, since there is always a pope.

Also, is 711 good start for Cordoba? 814 for Spain, when the kingdom of Asturias was recognized.

There's an extended discussion of the AP functions earlier in the thread. Control of Rome is too powerful and not historically, but other functions like crusades make sense. Sorry, the Papal states will remain unplayable. We've spent too much time arguing both sides of it to reopen the debate.

I'm going to try to settle starting dates tonight. Look for the post tomorrow.

 

[ijnavy]

I'm putting starting dates in right now in the wiki. When should Genoa spawn?and When should the Norse spawn?
How do the plagues look???
How is control of 1 city for 10 turns powerful? It is historical since the pope received the papal states when he was elected.

 

[st.lucifer]

Please let me handle the starting dates. That was my job for the week, and I have every intention of doing it.

And as I said before, I don't want to reopen debate on the Papal States. We can talk about it again when we get into AP functions, but this is not a discussion I want to reopen right now.

The problem with trying to do everything at the same time is that it's very hard to reach consensus on any one thing, and for anything to get definitively done.


I'm not trying to discourage you from helping, and I appreciate what you're doing - but much of this stuff has been debated and settled (at least in principle) already, and given how much time and energy it took to do that, I'm not willing to revisit it right now. Please read through the earlier threads - there are four; the coding thread, the map thread, the civ thread, and the initial project thread (which is long buried.) If, after doing that, you find something that hasn't been debated and you want to bring it forward, go ahead. If it's something we need to talk about and it makes sense to talk about it now, we'll do it. If it's something that's been settled already, discussion is closed until we're hammering out more specific details. Again, I'm not trying to sound hostile, but when you redo things that have been done already, or try to reopen debate on a settled issue, you divert energy from the other projects that people are working on.

 

[ijnavy]

I'm not debating about the papal states, I'm debating on anything except the UHV.
Are there going to be 2 leaders for each civ? (just asking)

 

[Hitti-Litti]

I think that it depends on the country, some countries may have more and more well-made leaders than others.

 

[ijnavy]

Can I find 2 leaders for every nation and put it in the wiki?

 

[jessiecat]

Can I find 2 leaders for every nation and put it in the wiki?

I'm happy with two leaders per civ. but prob. not more. I did that with the Bulgarians already,
as you've seen, and will do the same with the Cordovans, Arabs and the Ottomans which are
my own special interest. If you'd like to enter 2 each for all the other civs you're very welcome.
Not Napoleon or Catherine though as our mod ends in 1800 so they'd have a very short life.
The same goes for Techs, Unique Units and Unique Buildings if you want to suggest some.
Just put them in so everybody can read them.

I've put in the rough civ start dates where missing based on Disenfranchised's
list but st. lucifer's coming back with the final ones soon so they're only a
guide, esp Germany, which will start much earlier I think.

 

[ijnavy]

What do the techs mean? Is for example Bulgaria going to start with only 2 techs?

 

[jessiecat]

What do the techs mean? Is for example Bulgaria going to start with only 2 techs?

Just my starting suggestion when I set up Bulgaria. I'm sure they'll all start with more than that.
But that discussion hasn't even started yet and prob. won't while we're concentrating on maps
and things. Better to concentrate our efforts on one or two things at a time rather than
talk about everything all at the same time, as st. lucifer has said.

 

[Úmarth]

I think Whitefire is working on a completely new tech tree.

 

[st.lucifer]

I think Whitefire is working on a completely new tech tree.

Right. At this point it would be counterproductive to give civs starting techs, or try to figure out which tech the UU and UB correspond to. It's one of the reasons we're advocating a slow and careful approach; a lot of things are going to be done differently and we'll have to weigh everything carefully. The fewer points of focus at any given time, the better.

 

[ijnavy]

I have put in 2 leaders for every civ on the Wiki except Austria and Sweden. Can someone help me with those? What do you think of my choices?
I still need to put in their traits and civics.