Rhye's of Europe Code Coordination thread

If I can make a humble suggestion for Kievan Rus's flag, I'd suggest some variaton on the Trizub (trident).

I'm not exactly an expert, but I know that variations on this symbol have been used by political leaders in the area that is today Ukraine for a bit over a thousand years.

Also, it doesn't look like any of the others :p
 
Úmarth;6274050 said:
Alright, another set done. Just the Muslims and Kiev to go and another look at the Norse, Ottomans and Portugal.

I've gone in a different direction for Sweden st.lucifer, hope you don't mind. The three crowns were apparently a national symbol with a lot of history. I thought it better than using a provinces.

I do see a bit of an issue arising: a great many of the flags are predominantly red, which might make it difficult to assign matching colours to the civ.

Found a couple more ideas for flags. As i said earlier, in the early days, all
Islamic flags tended to be one colour with a holy inscription like God is Great
or something on them. The Umayyads used black, the Fatimids used green
and the Cordovans definitelly used white. I've included this black jihad flag
which would look pretty cool for the Arabs, wouldn't it?
The Ottomans at first used green and later red crescent flags.
The version of the Portugal flag circa 1095, that i posted earlier, is authentic.
 
Sweden: This is Kalmar, which is where I think we'll have the Swedes spawn: http://www.civicheraldry.com/page/2858

What? No, Sweden in the mod is spawning as the rejection of the Kalmar union - be a tad silly to have their flag. Why not have the gold lion on white and blue stripes, from the coat of arms of the swedish empire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hessen_kassel.gif. The three crowns works too, but the blue and white stripes is more distinctive IMO.

For the Kievan Rus, no flags seem to be mentioned - but how about the Coat of arms of Chernigov, (Black double headed eagle on white with blue shield) or the coat of arms of Kiev (Archangel on Blue), or finally the coat of arms of the Ukraine (Yellow trident on blue)

We should probably compile a list of national colours first, and then work the flags around that. Here are the ones I think rather unequivcal:

Umayyads - Islamic Green.
Byzantines - Imperial Purple/Roman Red
Kiev - The light blue you get on many of the steppe nations flags (and background of the Ukrainian and Kiev coat of arms).
England - Light Red
France - Dark Blue
Papacy - Cream
Germany - the Orange-Gold seen on the HRE flag.
Burgundy - Burgundy? Doesn't go well with the flag but does contrast with the neighbours.
Austria - Bright yellow (but not quite Egyptian florescent, as seen on the flag of the Austrian empire)
Netherlands - Orange or the faded blue of the flag, which chosen needs to contrast enough with France/Germany.
Portugal - Green (doesn't fit with the flag, which is why I'd suggest using the flag St. L suggested, but replacing the red border with green).
Sweden - Bright Blue (as sported by the Americans)
Muscovy - the Russian colour in BtS fits quite well
Spain - Dark yellow, or the light purple of the kingdom of leon

(Thats 2 shades of green, 3 shades of red, 3 of blue, 4-5 on the Orange-yellow continum, and a few purples)

Still need to decided upon, in such a way as to fit their flags and constrast with the established colours:
Ottomans - An untaken red, brown or green?
Cordoba - ???
Genoa - White perhaps?, or a shade of red thats untaken
Venice - I would suggest a bright green (as it hasn't been taken yet)
Poland - a pinky-red perhaps, with the flag the same shade
Hungary - Browny colour (the flag could be made browner to fit whilst maintaining the barred cross)
Bulgaria - perhaps the off-green from the modern flag?
Norse - White maybe (it features on most of the flags), or a blue thats distinct from Sweden and France
 
What? No, Sweden in the mod is spawning as the rejection of the Kalmar union - be a tad silly to have their flag. Why not have the gold lion on white and blue stripes, from the coat of arms of the swedish empire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hessen_kassel.gif. The three crowns works too, but the blue and white stripes is more distinctive IMO.

For the Kievan Rus, no flags seem to be mentioned - but how about the Coat of arms of Chernigov, (Black double headed eagle on white with blue shield) or the coat of arms of Kiev (Archangel on Blue), or finally the coat of arms of the Ukraine (Yellow trident on blue)

We should probably compile a list of national colours first, and then work the flags around that. Here are the ones I think rather unequivcal:

Umayyads - Islamic Green.
Byzantines - Imperial Purple/Roman Red
Kiev - The light blue you get on many of the steppe nations flags (and background of the Ukrainian and Kiev coat of arms).
England - Light Red
France - Dark Blue
Papacy - Cream
Germany - the Orange-Gold seen on the HRE flag.
Burgundy - Burgundy? Doesn't go well with the flag but does contrast with the neighbours.
Austria - Bright yellow (but not quite Egyptian florescent, as seen on the flag of the Austrian empire)
Netherlands - Orange or the faded blue of the flag, which chosen needs to contrast enough with France/Germany.
Portugal - Green (doesn't fit with the flag, which is why I'd suggest using the flag St. L suggested, but replacing the red border with green).
Sweden - Bright Blue (as sported by the Americans)
Muscovy - the Russian colour in BtS fits quite well
Spain - Dark yellow, or the light purple of the kingdom of leon

(Thats 2 shades of green, 3 shades of red, 3 of blue, 4-5 on the Orange-yellow continum, and a few purples)

Still need to decided upon, in such a way as to fit their flags and constrast with the established colours:
Ottomans - An untaken red, brown or green?
Cordoba - ???
Genoa - White perhaps?, or a shade of red thats untaken
Venice - I would suggest a bright green (as it hasn't been taken yet)
Poland - a pinky-red perhaps, with the flag the same shade
Hungary - Browny colour (the flag could be made browner to fit whilst maintaining the barred cross)
Bulgaria - perhaps the off-green from the modern flag?
Norse - White maybe (it features on most of the flags), or a blue thats distinct from Sweden and France

Did you actually look at the flags in my post?
If not please look at the blue and white flag for Portugal.
It is the original flag, circa 1079.
Also check out these two flags of jihad. Black was the
first official colour as used by Mohammed and white was
the colour for Cordoba. And the green crescent flag is
definately the first used by the Ottomans.
I think using these colours makes them very
distinct from the rest.
What is your opinion?:)

BTW- for Kievan Rus, check out post 21. OK?;)
 
BTW- for Kievan Rus, check out post 21. OK?;)

Yes I missed that, but since we suggested the same thing - great minds think alike eh?

Did you actually look at the flags in my post?
If not please look at the blue and white flag for Portugal.
It is the original flag, circa 1079.

Yes, but the white with blue shields would imply a white colour, for which there are numerous other contenders - and Portugal has had many other flags, some with the iconic dark green.

Also check out these two flags of jihad. Black was the
first official colour as used by Mohammed and white was
the colour for Cordoba. And the green crescent flag is
definately the first used by the Ottomans.
I think using these colours makes them very
distinct from the rest.
What is your opinion?

Well they can't use black as its the barbarian colour, and Islamic green is already associated with the Arabs from the main game and RFC , though white for Cordoba is certainly workable. Wiki and all sources I can find say the First ottoman flags were red, similar to the ones posted by others in this thread, the green flag of the caliphate only being adopted in the 15th century and later.
 
Yes I missed that, but since we suggested the same thing - great minds think alike eh?



Yes, but the white with blue shields would imply a white colour, for which there are numerous other contenders - and Portugal has had many other flags, some with the iconic dark green.



Well they can't use black as its the barbarian colour, and Islamic green is already associated with the Arabs from the main game and RFC , though white for Cordoba is certainly workable. Wiki and all sources I can find say the First ottoman flags were red, similar to the ones posted by others in this thread, the green flag of the caliphate only being adopted in the 15th century and later.

OK, thanks for looking at that. But the Portugal flag I'm talking about is the
one I posted earler,the blue and white cross, not the one with shields.(see post 15)
Also, all the sources I've seen say that the original battle flags used by
the Arabs from the time of the Prophet were all black, sometimes with an
inscription in white script like God is Great or something. And the colour
of the Abbasids was black and for the Cordobans, white. So I thought
these flags of Jihad would be perfect contrasts and very distinct from all
the others. Don't you agree? You may be right about the Ottomans but
there are already lots of red flags and not many green. Its an idea.:)

BTW Just had a brainstorm! Why not make the barbarian flag black and red?
It's the trad. anarchist colours. What could be better for a bunch of
anarchistic heathens, eh?
 
Úmarth;6277736 said:
Eh, anarchists aren't really barbarians...

You haven't met some the guys I have.:lol:
Just a joke.
You know what I mean.
 
What is the reasoning behind using the name "Norse" for what infact (afaict) represent Denmark? Especially when you at the same time include Sweden?

The strongest nordic nation was probably Denmark from the year 1000 to 1600, from around 1650 and on that position had switched to Sweden.

If you insist on having this "Norse" nation in the mod, i suggest that you atleast have all of scandinavia as "Norse" from the beginning of the mod untill, say 1200. Then make Denmark spawn and then have Sweden spawn alittle bit later. And not make "Norse" able of respawn.

This mod looks great, but if you have to play out the great nordic strugle for the position as the local superpower as Sweden vs. Norse.. :rolleyes:
 
Oh please, read the other threads ...

We have the norse as Denmark and the name will change later in the game.
 
Im sorry if this have been stated elsewhere. I did look through the threats (i only read sporadically though), but i didnt notice anything about norse being renamed to denmark. Could you provide a link?
 
After looking at pictures of Byzantine flags, I geuss the Eagle is all right. If there is another picture of it without looking like the swaztika, that would be nice.
 
After looking at pictures of Byzantine flags, I geuss the Eagle is all right. If there is another picture of it without looking like the swaztika, that would be nice.

Why would that be nice? 1. Its not a swaztika - and 2. Even it was a swaztika it would have absolutely nothing to do with hitler/nazis.
If someone should download this mod and be offended by a historical symbol that is 1000+ years old, which looks alittle bit like a swaztika (with some good will, i didnt notice it when i looked at them). Then i honestly think that is that persons problem. Its political correctness gone too far.
 
It is just the fact that at first glance, it looks like a swaztika. It is not my mod, so the makers can do whatever they want with it. It is just that I know alot about the Byzantines.
 
Okay? How about this as a solution to the colour/flag problem: we have a plain banner in the colours Disenfrancised suggested with a coat of arms emblazoned upon them in a little shield. That will work for the Muslims too, we can just replace the coat of arms with a generic Islamic crescent. And I can save as basic template as a psd making it very easy to change or make new ones at a later date and them still be consistent.

So for example, Spain's (attached). The background is that nice purple with a simplified Castillian coat of arms on it. That way we also get a mix of Leonese and Castillian symbols.

It is just the fact that at first glance, it looks like a swaztika. It is not my mod, so the makers can do whatever they want with it. It is just that I know alot about the Byzantines.
I think everyone will agree that this mod belongs to the community here, the whole process so far has been based on consensus and anybody is welcome to share their ideas.
 
Im sorry if this have been stated elsewhere. I did look through the threats (i only read sporadically though), but i didnt notice anything about norse being renamed to denmark. Could you provide a link?

The name changes over time: Vikings>Denmark>Denmark-Norway>Union of Kalmar(based on cities). We are using 'Norse' as a shorthand for all that in our discussion.
 
Úmarth;6280401 said:
Okay? How about this as a solution to the colour/flag problem: we have a plain banner in the colours Disenfrancised suggested with a coat of arms emblazoned upon them in a little shield. That will work for the Muslims too, we can just replace the coat of arms with a generic Islamic crescent. And I can save as basic template as a psd making it very easy to change or make new ones at a later date and them still be consistent.

So for example, Spain's (attached). The background is that nice purple with a simplified Castillian coat of arms on it. That way we also get a mix of Leonese and Castillian symbols.


I think everyone will agree that this mod belongs to the community here, the whole process so far has been based on consensus and anybody is welcome to share their ideas.

Spain looks fine to me. But I still think you should use the white flag with the
black inscription for Al Andalus. Much more authentic. (Post 24).
A similiar one in green would be good for the Arabs too.They really didn't start
using crescents until more modern times (1453, acc. to Wiki)
Only the Ottomans did early on.:)

BTW Wasn't it me that suggested plain banners for the Muslims? (Post 26)
 
Was it? My apologies. Yeah inscriptions might look better than the crescent too. But I don't know Arabic, so can somebody find a suitable inscription (nice looking, preferable two-colour image so it's easy to extract)?

I've gone ahead and wrote up the PlayerColor info into XML. Anyone who can help out writing up civs should download this archive and extract to their mods folder. Then in CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml <DefaultPlayerColor> can be set to PLAYERCOLOR_CIVNAME (where CIVNAME is the "keyword" I listed on page 1). There's also an .xls file in there with hex codes, rgb values, etc.
 
Ok i just noticed that i'm not the right person to create the civs since my lag of knowledge in history is too big for that. I tried to create Hungary but i failed at several points for example concerning the leaders or the cities.

Instead i'll keep working on the const.py and the riseandfall.py ;)
 
We have plenty of historians on board, I was thinking we could leave things like that blank until we get more info.

But yeah, hopefully some other people can do some xml while you and I are concentrating on the python and the art.
 
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