[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[CPWimmer]

Any place to find the up to date promotion list for all the governors. The R & F features thread has most of the information, just not the exact amounts the promotions give. I watched the video, but already forgot a lot, so I have to use that thread for guidance.

Here's my order of best governors to worst. The Devs have always been using Amani, that governor seems almost mandatory. But then again, the Devs aren't the best player. Aggressive military action could negate the need for this governor. So it's possible Magnus could be the best governor. Victor looks completely useless.
Amani
Magnus
Liang
Pingala
Reyna
Moksha
Victor

https://imgur.com/gallery/Gx4So

 

[Trengilly]

Well here goes. Governor Review (assuming they don't alter the current bonuses). Just commenting on their specific abilities below but of course all of them give 8 loyalty pressure which could be really great or not depending on how loyalty plays out.

Magnus: Assuming they don't alter chopping he is just totally overpowered. He is the first governor to hire - and with 1 promotion you can chop spam out settlers all day long. 100% chop bonus plus 80% settler production with Colonization and no loss of population!!
A second promotion allows you to ignore strategic resources. I doubt I'd ever bother with his other promotions however.
Total titles needed (3) (1 to hire and 2 for promotions)

Liang: Builder charges, yes please. And another two promotions on the left side for bonuses to city center and district production. The two improvements (aquaculture and parks) both look pretty weak but in a culture game you might want the parks.
Total titles needed (3)

Pingala: Good solid bonuses for either culture and/or science. But he is a later governor to hire. Clearly if you are going for a science victory you will max out his tree. Nukes I never build so that is the only promotion I wouldn't ever use.
Total titles needed - Science game (4), Culture game (2)

Amani - I'm kind of confused about her abilities. Affluence - city-state provided a copy of its luxury resources. Don't they already do this if you are suzi? And if you are committing Amani to a CS you would expect to become suzi. Emissary/Prestige are offensive/defensive loyalty bonuses - need to see the details of loyalty to see how useful this is. Promoter is a great amenity boost. While Puppeteer is fantastic for controlling a CS although I don't generally have trouble finding enough envoys to control the city states I really want anyway.

Reyna: Seems pretty weak actually - quicker tile acquisition seems very poor compared to the others base abilities. I guess it depends on how fast it is. She would be very nice if you have one large coastal city but otherwise? Buying districts with gold seems good but it takes three promotions and we don't know how much they will cost. It may just continue to be easier to chop them in (see Magnus above).

Moksha - Well if you aren't bothering about religion then you can skip him. His bonuses are kind of strange actually. Three of his 5 promotions are defensive. I don't think I've ever had any difficulty defending my religion for the AI so these seem useless. His base religious pressure is kind of weak also. Pressure isn't that strong in Civ 6 although he could work well in your holy city I guess. The production bonus is solid and Patron Saint is great.
Total titles needed - Religion Conquest game (4)

Victor - Basically useless for the human player as he is all defensive. - might be helpful for the AI. If warmongering his 3 turn deployment might be good if you need to quick forward settle him in captured cities for the loyalty bonus.

Do we have any idea how many governor titles we get in the game. There are 4 for the government district and its three buildings. One wonder. And I think I've seen 10+ on the civics tree. I can't see really needing more than a dozen to get most of the important stuff for whatever victory condition you are shooting for. A few more if you want all 7 for the loyalty bonuses.

I expect they may still tweak their bonuses before release but regardless it will be fun playing around with them.

 

[Metecury]

Victor the castellan is utterly useless, his last ability which is meant to be the best is a waste of a point. If he had offensive military abilities like faster unit training and making units start with a promotion or two he would be quite decent for warmongering, this is really all it would take to make him good.

 

[Disgustipated]

But I see Firaxis as wanting to curb rapid conquest, not make it worse. As mentioned above, perhaps the ai will use him defensively, but seeing how he can only affect one city, it won't slow us up too much.

I am curious as to how well the ai will use these governors.

 

[Duckfromstatefarm]

Well I'm going to have a tough choice to make on which governor's I'm going to pick first, I know I'll need all 7 governors since I tend to play wide not tall. Looking forward to Monday on what the next Civ teaser is.

 

[Metecury]

So they make a useless governor to help the AI? They could, I don't know, improve it or give them bonuses as they already do. To introduce a mechanic that is useless to the player makes little sense besides governor bonuses are city related, having one city being faster while producing units or producing better trained units is hardly game breaking. Just give him one branch for defense and another branch for offense so the AI still benefits from the defensive bonuses.

 

[Ondolindë]

Well I'm going to have a tough choice to make on which governor's I'm going to pick first, I know I'll need all 7 governors since I tend to play wide not tall. Looking forward to Monday on what the next Civ teaser is.

Same here. I think it will also depend on what map you get and who's close to you. But I think those first games will be fun sorting this out and learning how to used them.

By the way, what constitutes wide vs tall these days? I am unsure if I am a wide or tall player because I tend to go with the flow of things.

 

[Duckfromstatefarm]

Same here. I think it will also depend on what map you get and who's close to you. But I think those first games will be fun sorting this out and learning how to used them.

By the way, what constitutes wide vs tall these days? I am unsure if I am a wide or tall player because I tend to go with the flow of things.

Tall is basically a few cities (3-4 cities for example) but a few powerful governors while playing Wide is you are spread out with lots of cities but need lots of governors to keep all cities under control.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Tall is basically a few cities (3-4 cities for example) but a few powerful governors while playing Wide is you are spread out with lots of cities but need lots of governors to keep all cities under control.

Not necessarily.

What tall and wide mean is just different focuses. A tall play would focus on developing most if not each city but don't mean having few cities. Wide mean there is a priority on acquiring new cities instead of developing cities.

 

[darkace77450]

Everyone claiming Victor is useless for players needs to consider multiplayer. I imagine he'd be quite good - indispensable even - in that setting.

 

[God of Kings]

Everyone claiming Victor is useless for players needs to consider multiplayer. I imagine he'd be quite good - indispensable even - in that setting.

Though the majority of Civ players play solely on single, Victor is indispensable for multiplayer.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Pingala, Magnus, and Reyna are the ones that stick out to me most of all.
Magnus is all around good and I tend to build commercial hubs in a lot of my cities, so Reyna might be beneficial as well.
I'm usually a science and culture player so Pingala is right up my alley, besides the nuking part most of the time.

 

[Draehl]

I haven't been tapped into the game much lately but was wondering- is there any news on changes to existing Civs? Especially naval combat, coastal cities and I'm still holding out hope Norway gets some tweaks (IE a Trade War Casus Belli) to help continue the pillaging playstyle into the mid/late game. Thanks!

 

[UWHabs]

Everyone claiming Victor is useless for players needs to consider multiplayer. I imagine he'd be quite good - indispensable even - in that setting.

I think he'll have a niche not just in that, but with the quick setup time, you may want/need to parachute him in if you're conquering someone without any neighbouring base of cities. He'd synergize better if he also had a couple other bonuses - maybe, +100% production while repairing walls or districts/buildings, or something giving extra healing to units in or next to the city?

 

[God of Kings]

I haven't been tapped into the game much lately but was wondering- is there any news on changes to existing Civs? Especially naval combat, coastal cities and I'm still holding out hope Norway gets some tweaks (IE a Trade War Casus Belli) to help continue the pillaging playstyle into the mid/late game. Thanks!

I too would like to see a buff to some existing naval civs (excluding Indonesia of course).

 

[Zaarin]

I too would like to see a buff to some existing naval civs (excluding Indonesia of course).

But poor Indonesia has nothing going for it at all. It certainly doesn't have an insanely powerful unique improvement, for example.

 

[God of Kings]

Spain needs a major buff though.

 

[Metecury]

Everyone claiming Victor is useless for players needs to consider multiplayer. I imagine he'd be quite good - indispensable even - in that setting.

He is still severely under powered compared to other governors, Victor's abilities make him useful in early wars and only during wars, other governors are useful for the whole game and in all situations. If at least he had some bonuses toward unit production or unit experience it would make him good all around, right now save form emergencies he is not an optimal choice.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Twenty-six days.

 

[Guandao]

Twenty-six days.

On the twenty-fourth day, we will know the next Civ.