[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[Wielki Hegemon]

Remember to ask developers to show us Korean and Dutch leader's agendas in Civpedia during stream

 

[Guandao]

The only thing that actually worries me that if the second expansion includes again 8 civs and one leader, that many mainstays actually aren't going to return, like what about the Celts, Babylon, Byzantium, Inca/Maya, Ethiopia/Zulu/Mali and Carthage?

If none of those Civs you've mentioned return in Civ6, I'll be terribly confused with Firaxis' decision making. Especially if they add post-colonial nations instead.

I honestly don't care about the multiple leaders per Civ. It's just a different leader ability and agenda. I didn't play Civ4 long enough to like this feature. But it seems possible the multiple leaders will lessen the number of Civs. Civ6 might have less Civs than Civ5.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Ok guys, I've done a completely unnecessary and probably useless thing. I created a list of City States and their Civs. Here.

Amsterdam - The Netherlands (2nd revealed R&F Civ)
Antananarivo - Madagascar
Armagh - (Northern) Ireland
Auckland - New Zealand
Buenos Aires - Argentina
Brussels - Belgium
Carthage - Carthage
Geneva - Switzerland
Granada - Moors, Al-Andalus (unlikely to be R&F Civ - it appeared in the Netherlands' First Look)
Hattusa - Hittites
Hong Kong - Hong Kong
Jakarta - Indonesia (DLC) - replaced by Bandar Brunei - Brunei
Jerusalem - Hebrews, Israel
Kabul - Afghanistan
Kandy - Sri Lanka
Kumasi - Ashanti
La Venta - Olmec
Lisbon - Portugal
Mohenjo Daro - Harappa
Muscat - Oman
Nan Madol - Micronesia
Palenque - Maya
Preslav - Bulgaria
Toronto - Canada
Seoul - Korea (1st revealed R&F Civ)
Stockholm - Sweden (unlikely to be R&F Civ - it appeared in Korea's First Look)
Valletta - Malta
Vilnius - Lithuania
Yerevan - Armenia
Zanzibar - Swahili

 

[God of Kings]

If none of those Civs you've mentioned return in Civ6, I'll be terribly confused with Firaxis' decision making. Especially if they add post-colonial nations instead.

I honestly don't care about the multiple leaders per Civ. It's just a different leader ability and agenda. I didn't play Civ4 long enough to like this feature. But it seems possible the multiple leaders will lessen the number of Civs. Civ6 might have less Civs than Civ5.

I would rather have post-colonial civs over multiple leaders on any given day.

 

[Lord Lakely]

I believe Tarsus is already a Persian city. And I hope that Phoenicia isn't too insignificant to create.
I would also like to see Ancient Israel but I doubt that will ever happen. I like more variety in city-states anyway and wouldn't like them to become minor empires, because that defeats the purpose of them being city-states, in my opinion.

Oh absolutely (and sadly!). The best "option" we have is a Judean Civ with Samarra as the capital, but the concept alone will piss people off regardless.


In B4 we get a "Controversial Civ" pack which includes Israel, Armenia, Tibet, Nazi Germany, Mao and Stalin as alt leaders and Belgium under Leopold II

 

[Kimiimaro]

I would rather have post-colonial civs over multiple leaders on any given day.

But some Civs (looks at India, Egypt and France) deserve them.

 

[Guandao]

Ok guys, I've done a completely unnecessary and probably useless thing. I created a list of City States and their Civs. Here.

Amsterdam - The Netherlands
Antananarivo - Madagascar
Armagh - (Northern) Ireland
Auckland - New Zealand
Buenos Aires - Argentina
Brussels - Belgium
Carthage - Carthage
Geneva - Switzerland
Granada - Andalusia?
Hattusa - Hittites
Hong Kong - Hong Kong
Jakarta - Indonesia - replaced by Bandar Brunei - Brunei
Jerusalem - Hebrews, Israel
Kabul - Afghanistan
Kandy - Sri Lanka
Kumasi - Ghana
La Venta - Olmec
Lisbon - Portugal
Mohenjo Daro - Harappa
Muscat - Oman
Nan Madol - Micronesia?
Palenque - Maya
Preslav - Bulgaria
Toronto - Canada
Seoul - Korea
Stockholm - Sweden
Valletta - Malta
Vilnius - Lithuania
Yerevan - Armenia
Zanzibar - Swahili? (not really sure about this one)

Granada would be the Moors/or Al-Andalus
Kumasi isn't Ghana (a modern nation), but the Ashanti. It was their capital.
Nan Madol's "Civ" can be called Micronesia. I doubt Firaxis would call the Civ Pohnpei.
Zanzibar's "Civ" can be called Swahili. I think that's more marketable than "Kilwa".

 

[God of Kings]

Ok guys, I've done a completely unnecessary and probably useless thing. I created a list of City States and their Civs. Here.

Amsterdam - The Netherlands
Antananarivo - Madagascar
Armagh - (Northern) Ireland
Auckland - New Zealand
Buenos Aires - Argentina
Brussels - Belgium
Carthage - Carthage
Geneva - Switzerland
Granada - Moors, Al-Andalus
Hattusa - Hittites
Hong Kong - Hong Kong
Jakarta - Indonesia - replaced by Bandar Brunei - Brunei
Jerusalem - Hebrews, Israel
Kabul - Afghanistan
Kandy - Sri Lanka
Kumasi - Ashanti
La Venta - Olmec
Lisbon - Portugal
Mohenjo Daro - Harappa
Muscat - Oman
Nan Madol - Micronesia
Palenque - Maya
Preslav - Bulgaria
Toronto - Canada
Seoul - Korea
Stockholm - Sweden
Valletta - Malta
Vilnius - Lithuania
Yerevan - Armenia
Zanzibar - Swahili

We know for certain that Sweden will not be in R&F's initial release, because Stockholm is in the Korean First Look video.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Granada would be the Moors/or Al-Andalus
Kumasi isn't Ghana (a modern nation), but the Ashanti. It was their capital.
Nan Madol's "Civ" can be called Micronesia. I doubt Firaxis would call the Civ Pohnpei.
Zanzibar's "Civ" can be called Swahili. I think that's more marketable than "Kilwa".

Thanks for advise. Edited.

We know for certain that Sweden will not be in R&F's initial release, because Stockholm is in the Korean First Look video.

Good catch.

 

[God of Kings]

Good catch.

You should note that in the list.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Ok guys, I've done a completely unnecessary and probably useless thing. I created a list of City States and their Civs. Here.

Amsterdam - The Netherlands
Antananarivo - Madagascar
Armagh - (Northern) Ireland
Auckland - New Zealand
Buenos Aires - Argentina
Brussels - Belgium
Carthage - Carthage
Geneva - Switzerland
Granada - Moors, Al-Andalus
Hattusa - Hittites
Hong Kong - Hong Kong
Jakarta - Indonesia - replaced by Bandar Brunei - Brunei
Jerusalem - Hebrews, Israel
Kabul - Afghanistan
Kandy - Sri Lanka
Kumasi - Ashanti
La Venta - Olmec
Lisbon - Portugal
Mohenjo Daro - Harappa
Muscat - Oman
Nan Madol - Micronesia
Palenque - Maya
Preslav - Bulgaria
Toronto - Canada
Seoul - Korea
Stockholm - Sweden
Valletta - Malta
Vilnius - Lithuania
Yerevan - Armenia
Zanzibar - Swahili

We have seen Granada and Stockholm in R&F videos, so they definitely aren't civs.

 

[God of Kings]

We have seen Granada and Stockholm in R&F videos, so they definitely aren't civs.

@Kimiimaro Note Granada as well.

 

[Quis]

Agreed. I'm not that interested in Georgia or Tamar. It went from error to in-joke to meme. I want to see it as a civ so that the journey can be completed.

I don't know if this was brought up earlier in the thread, but I may have found evidence that supports the idea of Georgia (and Queen Tamar ) in "Rise an Fall".
In the Announcement Trailer at 1:24 you can see archers during siege of the Castle scene. You can see them just briefly, and that's why I find the degree of detail surprising.
The style of armor reminds of the Caucasian Area, and as I searched for Khevsur (the Special unit for Georgia custom civ in Civ V) you can find a pretty similar looking style.

What do you think?

 

[Kimiimaro]

We have seen Granada and Stockholm in R&F videos, so they definitely aren't civs.

Good catch as well!

Updated the list.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I don't know if this was brought up earlier in the thread, but I may have found evidence that supports the idea of Georgia (and Queen Tamar ) in "Rise an Fall".
In the Announcement Trailer at 1:24 you can see archers during siege of the Castle scene. You can see them just briefly, and that's why I find the degree of detail surprising.
The style of armor reminds of the Caucasian Area, and as I searched for Khevsur (the Special unit for Georgia custom civ in Civ V) you can find a pretty similar looking style.

View attachment 482799

What do you think?

I found that and posted it a few days ago as well. In addition, the hats are pretty close, and they use the weapons seen when the father and daughter fight them. Also, the castle resembles one from the Khevsur region.

 

[God of Kings]

Looks like Georgia has a very good chance of becoming a civ.

If we see a city-state named Tbilisi, then Georgia would be out of luck.

 

[Ondolindë]

Exactly. The more civs, the more city-states, the more Natural Wonders, the less likely one game will be similar to the next. It increases replayability.

In the end, I think everyone will get what they like and prefer. We will have more civs coming in future expansions if Civ V and previous installments are any indication. So, new faces, new gameplay styles, new wonders, new improvements, etc. will be available. But, we also expect this expansion to give interesting tweaks to vanilla civs, and I am sure the next expansion will also. I am also interested in that. So everyone wins. Let's be happy, you all. It's the holidays, you guys! Enough fun and civ enjoyment for everyone.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Ok guys, I've done a completely unnecessary and probably useless thing. I created a list of City States and their Civs. Here.

Amsterdam - The Netherlands (2nd revealed R&F Civ)
Antananarivo - Madagascar
Armagh - (Northern) Ireland
Auckland - New Zealand
Buenos Aires - Argentina
Brussels - Belgium
Carthage - Carthage
Geneva - Switzerland
Granada - Moors, Al-Andalus (unlikely to be R&F Civ - it appeared in the Netherlands' First Look)
Hattusa - Hittites
Hong Kong - Hong Kong
Jakarta - Indonesia (DLC) - replaced by Bandar Brunei - Brunei
Jerusalem - Hebrews, Israel
Kabul - Afghanistan
Kandy - Sri Lanka
Kumasi - Ashanti
La Venta - Olmec
Lisbon - Portugal
Mohenjo Daro - Harappa
Muscat - Oman
Nan Madol - Micronesia
Palenque - Maya
Preslav - Bulgaria
Toronto - Canada
Seoul - Korea (1st revealed R&F Civ)
Stockholm - Sweden (unlikely to be R&F Civ - it appeared in Korea's First Look)
Valletta - Malta
Vilnius - Lithuania
Yerevan - Armenia
Zanzibar - Swahili

It seems that of those, the most difficult special CS ability to just replace with a different city name would be the giant heads.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

It seems that of those, the most difficult special CS ability to just replace with a different city name would be the giant heads.

I think Zanzibar's is rather iconic as well, as is Granada's.

 

[God of Kings]

It seems that of those, the most difficult special CS ability to just replace with a different city name would be the giant heads.

La Venta could be replaced with Rapa Nui (if the Olmec heads were replaced with moai).