[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[DWilson]

I mean, in his time it was true, so I don't mind him saying it. I think it'll make for funny screenshot situations if/when Italy and Portugal are added.

 

[bbbt]

I mean Tomyris LUA is literally called 'Killer of Cyrus", and as Cleopatra, you can have "The Death of Cleopatra" in one of your amphitheaters.

 

[God of Kings]

They are all hilarious in hindsight.

I'm leaving the countdown timer to @Kimiimaro, since only one person is allowed to announce the countdown.

 

[Kimiimaro]

They are all hilarious in hindsight.

I'm leaving the countdown timer to @Kimiimaro, since only one person is allowed to announce the countdown.

Looks like I'm not the only one here who sometimes visits TV Tropes

Btw. The English Wikipedia had an Canadian Indian Residential School System (the Cree/Canada) as a featured article yesterday and it has São Paulo, a dreadnought in Minas Geraes class (Brazilian UU) today. A coincidence?

Meanwhile, the Czech Wikipedia offers an article about Lusatian Mountains.

Also, forty-three days to go.

 

[leandrombraz]

Do we know if it's possible to flip a capital to your side using loyalty? Will peaceful domination victory be a thing?

 

[WillowBrook]

Do we know if it's possible to flip a capital to your side using loyalty? Will peaceful domination victory be a thing?

That's a good question. I wouldn't be surprised if the palace and the government district give extra loyalty, making it extra difficult but not necessarily impossible to flip those two cities.

I'm trying to recall the flip mechanics in earlier civ games. I don't think you could flip the capital in III, but you could win a domination victory with 2/3 the world's population and land area, so getting the capitals wasn't as important. (Now that's a victory condition I'd like to see return...)

 

[Metecury]

I have a mixed feeling of Italy as a civ. On the hand, Ancient Rome is only part of it's history. On the other hand, after fall of Rome, there was no real Italian state till XIX century. Some states located in the Italy (fully or partially) in between were very interisting (like Venice already shown in Civ5), but I don't see any of them deserving the name of being called Italian civilization. And having Italy as another "modern civ" while it's territory is already represented by the coolest ancient civ - this doesn't sound right.

A concept of Italy and a shared identity have been present long before the unification of the country.

Greece is not modern Greece, it represents the Greek city states of the Hellenic period, by the same token Germany was unified around the same time as Italy and in the game is not just modern day Germany it's also Germany when it was divided in the HRE and ruled by different independent princes, dukes and so on as a disunited entity.

So why on earth would an Italian civ representing both the Italian renaissance city states and a united Italy be too out there when the same or similar is done for Greece and Germany?



On the topic of Rome, that's just a silly argument, by that reasoning we should have no Byzantium, France, Spain or any other culture that has Roman heritage and has territory that overlaps with the empire.


Italy has a clear distinct culture form that of ancient Rome, there is plenty of history and achievements involving the Italian peninsula and its inhabitants, enough to overshadow civs that have been included already.

 

[AvianBritish]

no one seemed to have spotted the error in a statement I made a while a go and I have only just spotted it now;

Prior, I stated that no district and/or it's buildings are available between both trees. Because of this, I believe the new building unlocked in Capitalism could not be for the Commercial Hub, Aerodrome or any other district in the tech tree discarding the idea of a "national bank" or "Hotel" building.

However; in my current game as China (where my mission is to build the longest, practical wall possible - currently 22 tiles long with 4 mountains, going onto 29) I realised that you unlock the Broadcast Tower with Radio in the tech tree despite the Theater District and all of it's buildings are unlocked in the civics tree.

 

[God of Kings]

Do we know if it's possible to flip a capital to your side using loyalty? Will peaceful domination victory be a thing?

The Palace and the Government Plaza exert very high amounts of loyalty, especially if the city has both. In fact, if a city has both, then it can exert enough loyalty to prevent being flipped to a golden age civ even during a dark age.

That makes 100% peaceful domination victory impossible.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Peaceful domination victory would be awesome, anyway. If it's possible, i will try to do it anyway. Maybe it could be an achievment : "Swiss confederation: win a game with a Domination Victory without taking any city by force".

 

[God of Kings]

Peaceful domination victory would be awesome, anyway. If it's possible, i will try to do it anyway. Maybe it could be an achievment : "Swiss confederation: win a game with a Domination Victory without taking any city by force".

That would indeed be an achievement.

 

[Siptah]

Peaceful domination victory would be awesome, anyway. If it's possible, i will try to do it anyway. Maybe it could be an achievment : "Swiss confederation: win a game with a Domination Victory without taking any city by force".

I still think they should include Switzerland for that and give it an ability to flip foreign cities faster and easier.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

I still think they should include Switzerland for that and give it an ability to flip foreign cities faster and easier.

At the beginning of the anouncement of R&F, when everybody was speculating about new civs, I proposed Switzerland because, for me, it's a country (but I'm not sure we could call that a civilization) very interresting which will fit most of the new features:
Loyalty: cantons merged themselves peacefully.
Emergencies: what the cantons did when they merged peacefully against big bag Austria.
Governor: a city with a governor become more potent, as if it was more independant for the central power... like the decentralization of Switzerland.

I really hope to see Switzerland one day without mods. A civilization bound to no war would be extraordinary fun to play!

 

[agonistes]

I think that if Georgia is really in, then they were hoping the scenes in the trailer were too obscure and they would revel in how cleverly they hid it in plain sight once they reveal it.

Except that some of you see Georgia in a bowl of Fruitloops, so they never will be able to make the hint too obscure.

 

[pgm123]

Frederick Barbarossa said that he rules over Italy.

It means that Italy already has a leader, albeit one shared by Germany.

Barbarossa was King of the Italians. I was thinking of the Kings who were crowned in Pavia like Lambert or Guy. They were also the Dukes of Spoleto and that's the title they kept after the Holy Roman Emperors were crowned back up north. They were also the Prince of Benevento after the (real) Roman Empire withdrew from Italy.

 

[marius_kaparius]

So quick look in 2 hours from now?

 

[Lord Xavius]

So quick look in 2 hours from now?

Fifty minutes, if it's at the usual time.

 

[DeutschDachs]

Except that some of you see Georgia in a bowl of Fruitloops, so they never will be able to make the hint too obscure.

There are red Froot Loops in white milk, the colors of the Georgian flag! All but confirmed at this point!

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Looks like I'm not the only one here who sometimes visits TV Tropes

Btw. The English Wikipedia had an Canadian Indian Residential School System (the Cree/Canada) as a featured article yesterday and it has São Paulo, a dreadnought in Minas Geraes class (Brazilian UU) today. A coincidence?

Meanwhile, the Czech Wikipedia offers an article about Lusatian Mountains.

Also, forty-three days to go.

I happened to look for curiosity as well after you mentioned this and two days ago the featured article was about the founder of modern day Pakistan.
The Mauryan Empire went into modern day Pakistan.

 

[pgm123]

I happened to look for curiosity as well after you mentioned this and two days ago the featured article was about the founder of modern day Pakistan.
The Mauryan Empire went into modern day Pakistan.

Where was the featured article?

Tangent on Jinnah. I had a diplomat tell me that you could tell how religious a Pakistani government official is by looking at the picture of Jinnah he has behind his desk (they all have one, it seems) and his clothing. Jinnah was not particularly religious. He wanted to create Pakistan as a secular home for Indian Muslims. So there aren't many pictures of Jinnah wearing traditional/religious clothing. But as Pakistan's government has become religious, most of its officials switched to the rare pictures of Jinnah wearing religious clothing. So, if you find a government official with a picture of Jinnah wearing a suit, that person is probably not particularly religious or at least views the purpose of the government to be secular.