[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[Lord Lakely]

There are many options actually. Brocade Robes (Silk + Gold), Ornaments (Marble or Stone or Jade), Mirrors (Mercury), Brass (Copper), Brioche (Wheat + Sugar), Sushi (Rice + Fish), Liquor (Wheat + Sugar), Purple (Dyes + cliffs), Lace (Wool), Figurines (Ivory), Jewellery (Gold + either Gems or Pearls), Perfume (Whales or Incense), Glass (Dye + a coast), Cloisonné (Copper + Clay), Furniture (jungle in range), Confectionaries (Sugar + Chocolate), Cheese (Cattle or Sheep), etc...

It would require a larger pool of bonus resources (and maybe even adding an inbetween layer of Commodity resources which provide fewer Amenities if hooked up) and a unique manufacturing district, but it might be a good idea for a sequel. But we're probably on the wrong board discussing this.

Edit: A more feasable alternative could be adding an Auction Room building to the Commercial Hub, where you can store one of your Great Works, making it function like an amenity for the nearest four cities and provide gold per turn instead of tourism and culture. Only one of each type can be "auctioned off" in your empire. You would have to choose between building the Auction Room or the Stock Exchange.

 

[Siptah]

There are many options actually. Brocade Robes (Silk + Gold), Ornaments (Marble or Stone or Jade), Mirrors (Mercury), Brass (Copper), Brioche (Wheat + Sugar), Sushi (Rice + Fish), Liquor (Wheat + Sugar), Purple (Dyes + cliffs), Lace (Wool), Figurines (Ivory), Jewellery (Gold + either Gems or Pearls), Perfume (Whales or Incense), Glass (Dye + a coast), Cloisonné (Copper + Clay), Furniture (jungle in range), Confectionaries (Sugar + Chocolate), Cheese (Cattle or Sheep), etc...

It would require a larger pool of bonus resources (and maybe even adding an inbetween layer of Commodity resources which provide fewer Amenities if hooked up) and a unique manufacturing district, but it might be a good idea for a sequel. But we're probably on the wrong board discussing this.

Edit: A more feasable alternative could be adding an Auction Room building to the Commercial Hub, where you can store one of your Great Works, making it function like an amenity for the nearest four cities and provide gold per turn instead of tourism and culture. Only one of each type can be "auctioned off" in your empire. You would have to choose between building the Auction Room or the Stock Exchange.

Sounds like a plan for the second expansion: wealth & bankruptcy

 

[clapyourhands]

There are many options actually. Brocade Robes (Silk + Gold), Ornaments (Marble or Stone or Jade), Mirrors (Mercury), Brass (Copper), Brioche (Wheat + Sugar), Sushi (Rice + Fish), Liquor (Wheat + Sugar), Purple (Dyes + cliffs), Lace (Wool), Figurines (Ivory), Jewellery (Gold + either Gems or Pearls), Perfume (Whales or Incense), Glass (Dye + a coast), Cloisonné (Copper + Clay), Furniture (jungle in range), Confectionaries (Sugar + Chocolate), Cheese (Cattle or Sheep), etc...

It would require a larger pool of bonus resources (and maybe even adding an inbetween layer of Commodity resources which provide fewer Amenities if hooked up) and a unique manufacturing district, but it might be a good idea for a sequel. But we're probably on the wrong board discussing this.

Edit: A more feasable alternative could be adding an Auction Room building to the Commercial Hub, where you can store one of your Great Works, making it function like an amenity for the nearest four cities and provide gold per turn instead of tourism and culture. Only one of each type can be "auctioned off" in your empire. You would have to choose between building the Auction Room or the Stock Exchange.

There are already a few manufactured luxuries tied to Great Merchants, namely Jeans, Perfume, and Toys. They could work off of that and have Great Merchants that "invent" luxuries based on adjacent resources from where they are activated (ie: like how Darwin gives science based on adjacent natural wonders, a merchant could create Lace when activated near Wool--it would be available earlier than the existing ones to make up for the fact that its requirement is stricter).

 

[Lord Lakely]

Absolutely. I've always felt those luxes should be worth more than the regular luxury, however (same with Zanzibar's unique Luxes) since you can like... easily settle a city with four cocoa plantations in range as opposed to there being only two world-wide copies of the Jeans/Perfume/Toys luxes.

 

[God of Kings]

Looks like the Civ franchise gained mainstream attention here in Canada, not exactly for good reasons: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...ation-chief-civilization-video-game-1.4473089

 

[Sagax]

Looks like the Civ franchise gained mainstream attention here in Canada, not exactly for good reasons: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...ation-chief-civilization-video-game-1.4473089

One thread about it is enough.

 

[God of Kings]

One thread about it is enough.

We'll leave it at that: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...roves-of-poundmakers-depiction-in-rnf.626322/

 

[eso12por8]

Anyway I think this line of logic may have been present in the decision making process-- but it's still horrifying. two-- TWO African civs. (Egypt only half-counts as a Hellenistic version of itself.) If Carthage is the "African" civ, it'll be yet another outside holding. If nothing from Africa is included at all, because gosh darn it Nubia was plenty of attention to that entire continent.... that's just. Appalling.

Agreed, though Ptolemaic Egypt was more Roman than Greek. Hellenes certainly made their mark, though, while they were there. Carthage is indeed an African civ, despite it being along the Mediterranean. While genetically speaking, Mediterraneans were at one point in time considered a separate race from whites due to the obvious mix. Blond Greeks were actually what colonial Spaniards call trigueño (wheaten/hazel). Saharan Africa is still Africa, and Athens & Sicily are still Europe (interesting how we speak differently of Saharan Africans than their sub-Saharan counterparts). Mali, Zulu, Bantu, Swahili, or Sultanate of Oman would all be great sub-Saharan contenders.

I like to consider them Mediterranean since they were more about the sea than the land.

Fair enough, though I have yet to have heard people separate Spain, Italy & Greece from "European Civ" counts. The Middle East is always there but this is the first I'm seeing people suddenly making a distinction and justification for having Carthage be representative of a region typically seen by westerners as European & not necessarily North African as well. Most of Carthage's territory was in Africa, so how would it not fit Africa?

Yeah right or wrong in my mind I split out classical "Mediterrranean" civs from the rest of Europe, Africa, ME.

As someone who self-identifies as pan-Med. The Mediterranean is its own sphere, ethnically & culturally speaking, though the European side is more white-mixed and the African side is more black-mixed. It's a great blend if you have both sides like I do but to say they're the same isn't quite accurate when one side is also more or less a desert. Very different lifestyles.

Sounds like a plan for the second expansion: wealth & bankruptcy

If Portugal is indeed out, I would not be surprised if this is the angle. I hope they have a pirate civ to specifically seek wealth.

 

[Guandao]

Agreed, though Ptolemaic Egypt was more Roman than Greek. Hellenes certainly made their mark, though, while they were there. Carthage is indeed an African civ, despite it being along the Mediterranean. While genetically speaking, Mediterraneans were at one point in time considered a separate race from whites due to the obvious mix. Blond Greeks were actually what colonial Spaniards call trigueño (wheaten/hazel). Saharan Africa is still Africa, and Athens & Sicily are still Europe (interesting how we speak differently of Saharan Africans than their sub-Saharan counterparts). Mali, Zulu, Bantu, Swahili, or Sultanate of Oman would all be great sub-Saharan contenders.


Fair enough, though I have yet to have heard people separate Spain, Italy & Greece from "European Civ" counts. The Middle East is always there but this is the first I'm seeing people suddenly making a distinction and justification for having Carthage be representative of a region typically seen by westerners as European & not necessarily North African as well. Most of Carthage's territory was in Africa, so how would it not fit Africa?


As someone who self-identifies as pan-Med. The Mediterranean is its own sphere, ethnically & culturally speaking, though the European side is more white-mixed and the African side is more black-mixed. It's a great blend if you have both sides like I do but to say they're the same isn't quite accurate when one side is also more or less a desert. Very different lifestyles.


If Portugal is indeed out, I would not be surprised if this is the angle. I hope they have a pirate civ to specifically seek wealth.

Bantu would be a blob Civ, a pretty huge one at that. Oman isn't African. I think Dahomey, Benin (the kingdom that existed in present-day Nigeria, not the modern nation), Ashanti, Madagascar, Kanem-Bornu, and maybe a few others I can't remember would also good make sub-Saharan Civs.

 

[eso12por8]

Bantu would be a blob Civ, a pretty huge one at that. Oman isn't African. I think Dahomey, Benin (the kingdom that existed in present-day Nigeria, not the modern nation), Ashanti, Madagascar, Kanem-Bornu, and maybe a few others I can't remember would also good make sub-Saharan Civs.

MODERN Oman isn't African. At one point in time the Sultanate of Oman moved its capital to Zanzibar. Most of its land was an East African stronghold for them for centuries.

 

[God of Kings]

I hope they have a pirate civ to specifically seek wealth.

Norway is quite close to that.

 

[eso12por8]

& I agree, the Bantu would be more or less a filler civ. Benin I'm not as crazy about, nor Madagascar. The Ashanti are so incredibly fascinating, though does anyone know if Kumasi is still a city-state? Based on what I remember from my African History classes in college, weren't Kanem & Bornu different empires? Are we considering them as one for the sake of geographical unity?

If we're going to talk Sahelian civs... Songhai, Hausa, Yoruba, Darfur..

 

[Guatenadian]

No it's garlic to keep away those pesky Romanians that stay up all night and drink blood.

Or Australians... cough @bite cough

 

[God of Kings]

The Ashanti are so incredibly fascinating, though does anyone know if Kumasi is still a city-state?

No sightings of Kumasi in any R&F videos yet

 

[Guatenadian]

No sightings of Kumasi in any R&F videos yet

As long as we get at least 1 African Civ in R&F then I will be happy. Leaving out large chunks of the continent right now doesn't feel right at all.

 

[God of Kings]

As long as we get at least 1 African Civ in R&F then I will be happy. Leaving out large chunks out the continent right now doesn't feel right at all.

I agree. Firaxis would need permission with an African nation if necessary to avoid the Cree controversy.

 

[Guandao]

I agree. Firaxis would need permission with an African nation if necessary to avoid the Cree controversy.

That didn't seem to be an issue for Kongo or Nubia. Although I remember some people not being pleased with Kongo "Can't found a religion" portrayal.

& I agree, the Bantu would be more or less a filler civ. Benin I'm not as crazy about, nor Madagascar. The Ashanti are so incredibly fascinating, though does anyone know if Kumasi is still a city-state? Based on what I remember from my African History classes in college, weren't Kanem & Bornu different empires? Are we considering them as one for the sake of geographical unity?

If we're going to talk Sahelian civs... Songhai, Hausa, Yoruba, Darfur..

I'm the opposite of you with regards to the Benin and Madagascar. I'm fascinated by them both.

 

[God of Kings]

That didn't seem to be an issue for Kongo or Nubia. Although I remember some people not being pleased with Kongo "Can't found a religion" portrayal.

That is true, but there's always an African nation that may be more sensitive akin to the Cree or to the Pueblo.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

That didn't seem to be an issue for Kongo or Nubia. Although I remember some people not being pleased with Kongo "Can't found a religion" portrayal.

Yet it fit in perfectly with the leader. Maybe they'll get an Alternate leader in the 2nd Expansion.....one who *can* found a religion!

 

[Guandao]

Yet it fit in perfectly with the leader. Maybe they'll get an Alternate leader in the 2nd Expansion.....one who *can* found a religion!

I remember people saying Kongo having a leader who could found a religion would be OP.