aaminion00
Stoned
Ok sure
But what I really need from you is wonder/building suggestions for Medieval Philosophy and State Architecture.
Rise of the Ottomans (C3C)
- Thread starter aaminion00
- Start date
Ok sure
But what I really need from you is wonder/building suggestions for Medieval Philosophy and State Architecture.
@aaminion00: I just had to mention that really quick, but I was already brainstorming for some wonder ideas, just as we talked about earlier, during the development of the map.
Here is a list of wonders which I came up with, and then we can actually fit them into the techs. I mean, unit, improvement/wonder, government and flavour unit discussion should be done together with the tech tree, I'd say.
Allright, here's the list I've made:
- The Blue Mosque:
- Built in Edirne by the leading Ottoman architect Mimar Sinan, who was actually a devshirme janissary but became one of the greatest architects ever. The mosque is also called the "Selimiye", since it was built in the name of Yavuz Sultan Selim (Selim I). (Note, that I actually made the graphics for this and posted it in the Graphics Modpacks forum, but the shadows are awful and might consider redoing it).
A picture:
- Suleymaniye Mosque aka. The Great Mosque
- The greatest mosque still visible in Istanbul today, basicly defining the main skyline of the old city (I'm referring to those parts as the "old", as the city grew tremendously). Again made by Mimar Sinan.
A picture (has always been too big to fit in a single picture):
- Fatih Mosque
- Also located in Istanbul, this mosque was built by Atik Sinan to honour Fatih Sultan Mehmed (Mehmed II The Conquerer, and "Fatih" meaning "The Conquerer"). I just love it.
A picture:
- Mostar Bridge
- An Ottoman bridge located in Bosnia (yay!), which was sadly destroyed in 1993 during the unfortunate war by an artillery shell. It was rebuilt together with Turkish help to fellow Bosnians, IIRC in 2003. Initially built by the student of Mimar Sinan, Hayrettin in 1566. Definitely a wonder, since it's still among Unesco's world heritages list, even after the renovation.
A picture (before the destruction):
- Mehmed Ali Mosque
- Another very important Ottoman Turkish architecture in Cairo (among many others). Significant for it's architecture of the fountains.
A picture:
- White Tower
- The symbol of Salonika. A very beautiful piece of Ottoman architecture (might work to reduce corruption).
A picture:
- Topkapi Palace
- Located in Istanbul, a building which I know as if it was my own home. Toured the place so many times with my foreign guests, I already know what's where. It's a beautiful spot in Istanbul, and a must see. Very near to Suleymanie and Hagia Sophia. Built by Mehmed II (The Conquerer) in 1465.
A picture (best aeral view I could find from the web, sorry):
Here is a list of wonders which I came up with, and then we can actually fit them into the techs. I mean, unit, improvement/wonder, government and flavour unit discussion should be done together with the tech tree, I'd say.
Allright, here's the list I've made:
- The Blue Mosque:
- Built in Edirne by the leading Ottoman architect Mimar Sinan, who was actually a devshirme janissary but became one of the greatest architects ever. The mosque is also called the "Selimiye", since it was built in the name of Yavuz Sultan Selim (Selim I). (Note, that I actually made the graphics for this and posted it in the Graphics Modpacks forum, but the shadows are awful and might consider redoing it).
A picture:
- Suleymaniye Mosque aka. The Great Mosque
- The greatest mosque still visible in Istanbul today, basicly defining the main skyline of the old city (I'm referring to those parts as the "old", as the city grew tremendously). Again made by Mimar Sinan.
A picture (has always been too big to fit in a single picture):
- Fatih Mosque
- Also located in Istanbul, this mosque was built by Atik Sinan to honour Fatih Sultan Mehmed (Mehmed II The Conquerer, and "Fatih" meaning "The Conquerer"). I just love it.
A picture:
- Mostar Bridge
- An Ottoman bridge located in Bosnia (yay!), which was sadly destroyed in 1993 during the unfortunate war by an artillery shell. It was rebuilt together with Turkish help to fellow Bosnians, IIRC in 2003. Initially built by the student of Mimar Sinan, Hayrettin in 1566. Definitely a wonder, since it's still among Unesco's world heritages list, even after the renovation.
A picture (before the destruction):
- Mehmed Ali Mosque
- Another very important Ottoman Turkish architecture in Cairo (among many others). Significant for it's architecture of the fountains.
A picture:
- White Tower
- The symbol of Salonika. A very beautiful piece of Ottoman architecture (might work to reduce corruption).
A picture:
- Topkapi Palace
- Located in Istanbul, a building which I know as if it was my own home. Toured the place so many times with my foreign guests, I already know what's where. It's a beautiful spot in Istanbul, and a must see. Very near to Suleymanie and Hagia Sophia. Built by Mehmed II (The Conquerer) in 1465.
A picture (best aeral view I could find from the web, sorry):
- Selimiye Barracks
- Although this dates to mid 19th century, basicly during the Crimean wars, and has no part in the rise of the empire, it's still unique, as it denotes to the end of the Janissaries and a new beginning of a westernization process, the Nizam-i Cedid (Can work as the Sun Tzu's Art of War).
A picture (a very bad one, I'll look for better ones later):
- Yedikule Fortress aka. Yedikule Dungeons
- Very famous fort, especially famous (or infamous) for its dungeons, where even the youngest Ottoman sultan, Osman II (aka. Young Osman) was killed by the rebelling janissaries. This was a reason for the janissaries to be expelled.
A picture:
- The Maiden Tower aka. Kiz Kulesi
- This one is more like a flavor wonder, let's say. There are many myths behind why it was first built, but some historians claim that it ment to serve as a lighthouse first. Myths say, though, that a princess was kept here imprisoned for a while, and was killed by a poisonous snake hidden under the food basket brought in... Of course, it's true if you buy it. My favorite spot in Istanbul, and also is renovated to become a pretty expensive restaurant nowadays.
A lovely picture:
- The Fort of Rumelia aka. Rumeli Hisari
Again in Istanbul. Built to protect the Bosphorus from European aid to Byzantium during the conquest. It also has a small counterpart right accross, called the Anadolu Hisari (Fort of Anatolia). It's used for concerts and festivals nowadays.
A picture:
- Kulliye of Bayezid
- I guess this is the one suitable for Medieval Philosophy, as it has one of the greatest medieval medreses in Anatolia. Built for and by Bayezid II, the father of Yavuz Sultan Selim, in circa 1480's at Amasya (can't remember exact date).
A picture:
- Although this dates to mid 19th century, basicly during the Crimean wars, and has no part in the rise of the empire, it's still unique, as it denotes to the end of the Janissaries and a new beginning of a westernization process, the Nizam-i Cedid (Can work as the Sun Tzu's Art of War).
A picture (a very bad one, I'll look for better ones later):
- Yedikule Fortress aka. Yedikule Dungeons
- Very famous fort, especially famous (or infamous) for its dungeons, where even the youngest Ottoman sultan, Osman II (aka. Young Osman) was killed by the rebelling janissaries. This was a reason for the janissaries to be expelled.
A picture:
- The Maiden Tower aka. Kiz Kulesi
- This one is more like a flavor wonder, let's say. There are many myths behind why it was first built, but some historians claim that it ment to serve as a lighthouse first. Myths say, though, that a princess was kept here imprisoned for a while, and was killed by a poisonous snake hidden under the food basket brought in... Of course, it's true if you buy it. My favorite spot in Istanbul, and also is renovated to become a pretty expensive restaurant nowadays.
A lovely picture:
- The Fort of Rumelia aka. Rumeli Hisari
Again in Istanbul. Built to protect the Bosphorus from European aid to Byzantium during the conquest. It also has a small counterpart right accross, called the Anadolu Hisari (Fort of Anatolia). It's used for concerts and festivals nowadays.
A picture:
- Kulliye of Bayezid
- I guess this is the one suitable for Medieval Philosophy, as it has one of the greatest medieval medreses in Anatolia. Built for and by Bayezid II, the father of Yavuz Sultan Selim, in circa 1480's at Amasya (can't remember exact date).
A picture:
I might add a couple of more later on, but these are the ones which come to my mind right now . There is this other very important complex in Bursa that'd fit State Architecture greatly, but I can't recall the name!
---
Terms for those of you who don't know what these mean:
Devshirme: A soldier/artisan recruited from a non-Turkish European village or an Anatolian Christian village at a very young age, given education in either the best army schools or universities (medrese). Some even became Sadrazams.
Sadrazam: The grand vizier. There are usually several sadrazams, but one prevails among the others and might even become more influential in government than the Padisah.
Padisah: Derived from the Persian (Farsi) word of "Shah", the Padisah is the name given to a Sultan in Turkish. Even though Sultan is also used, Padisah is the official rank of this person, and Sultan is only some sort of a "nickname".
Medrese: The "university" concept in the Islamic world. Usually education is given together with intensive studies of the Qoran, but the education is not limited to religion. Almost all arts and sciences are taught.
. There is this other very important complex in Bursa that'd fit State Architecture greatly, but I can't recall the name!---
Terms for those of you who don't know what these mean:
Devshirme: A soldier/artisan recruited from a non-Turkish European village or an Anatolian Christian village at a very young age, given education in either the best army schools or universities (medrese). Some even became Sadrazams.
Sadrazam: The grand vizier. There are usually several sadrazams, but one prevails among the others and might even become more influential in government than the Padisah.
Padisah: Derived from the Persian (Farsi) word of "Shah", the Padisah is the name given to a Sultan in Turkish. Even though Sultan is also used, Padisah is the official rank of this person, and Sultan is only some sort of a "nickname".
Medrese: The "university" concept in the Islamic world. Usually education is given together with intensive studies of the Qoran, but the education is not limited to religion. Almost all arts and sciences are taught.
There are also modern ones, such as the Dolmabahce Palace, which was used as a secondary palace in Istanbul (distance to the Topkapi Palace wasn't that great, even). Mostly family members of the Sultan used to live there. Later it was partially converted into a very luxurious hotel (Kempinski), and partially is still a museum. It was where Mustafa Kemal Ataturk lived till his death.
Another one is the Kuleli Military Academy, again on the Bosphorus.
Both of them are relatively late (18th and 19th centuries) Ottoman architectures, and very important buildings if you ask me. Might be included as flavors, if you want
Here are some pictures;
Dolmabahce Palace:
Kuleli Military School (aka. Kuleli Askeri Lisesi):
And a completely random picture I just found fascinating. From an oath ceremony at the military school:
Another one is the Kuleli Military Academy, again on the Bosphorus.
Both of them are relatively late (18th and 19th centuries) Ottoman architectures, and very important buildings if you ask me. Might be included as flavors, if you want
Here are some pictures;
Dolmabahce Palace:
Kuleli Military School (aka. Kuleli Askeri Lisesi):
And a completely random picture I just found fascinating. From an oath ceremony at the military school:
aaminion00
Stoned
The second era looks nice!
Especially the Coordinated Agriculture is the tech that brings the first Sipahi in history.
They are called "Timarli Sipahi" and are dominantly Anatolian Turks, unlike the other army corps. The Sipahi that exists in Civ3 are a little more advanced ones, which should come with Mounted Tactics.
The first mounted units should be the Ghazis as you suggested, aaminion00..
Especially the Coordinated Agriculture is the tech that brings the first Sipahi in history.
They are called "Timarli Sipahi" and are dominantly Anatolian Turks, unlike the other army corps. The Sipahi that exists in Civ3 are a little more advanced ones, which should come with Mounted Tactics.
The first mounted units should be the Ghazis as you suggested, aaminion00..
aaminion00
Stoned
aaminion00
Stoned
The Mozarab infantry could be one of the defensively weak yet offensively powerful Arabic Units. Perhaps their Spearman unit (2 defense instead of 1 like their other units). Oh, and as you see, there are two "Questionmark" techs on the 3rd era tree. Any suggestions as to what they can be?
Attachments
aaminion00
Stoned
Thanks. I've decided that Modren Diplomacy will be pushed back, and together with Aristocracy be a prequesite for Espionage, which shall lead to the Protestant Reformation (To represent the Ottoman's alleged attempts to finance it). As for Religious Identity, it won't have a prequesite. Work will probably stall today, but tomorrow we'll start making a list (fairly independent of the tech tree itself) of the following:
1. Buildings
2. Wonders
3. Resources
4. Basic units
5. Flavor Units (Mameluke Units, etc.)
Once that is done, over the next week or two I'll start making the tech tree. And then when I'm finished we're done with the hardest part of the planning
.
Then comes another very hard part. Finding the units and buildings and all that. Since you said you can make building/wonder graphics, I'm hoping you could do some of the necessary ones. Mostly wonders since many of the buildings will just be standard civ3 with different names (to save work).
1. Buildings
2. Wonders
3. Resources
4. Basic units
5. Flavor Units (Mameluke Units, etc.)
Once that is done, over the next week or two I'll start making the tech tree. And then when I'm finished we're done with the hardest part of the planning
.Then comes another very hard part. Finding the units and buildings and all that. Since you said you can make building/wonder graphics, I'm hoping you could do some of the necessary ones. Mostly wonders since many of the buildings will just be standard civ3 with different names (to save work).
I can make the buildings/wonders, actually. I'll definitely do the leaderheads first (this weekend, hopefully). I can also handle the wonders, I suppose. The ones mentioned on my signature are not that great, but I improved a lot since then.
aaminion00
Stoned
Well personally I wish you'd wait until we were sure of the civs, but I understand. That said the following civs would be nice (all medieval if possible of course):
Austria
Naples
Venice
Hungary
Serbia
Bosnia
Wallachia
Byzantium (Think you've done this)
Ottomans (Probably done as well)
Ay Koyunlu
Mamelukes
Crimean Khaganate
Safavids
Hejaz
The "other" Turkish state/s in Eastern Anatolia
Austria
Naples
Venice
Hungary
Serbia
Bosnia
Wallachia
Byzantium (Think you've done this)
Ottomans (Probably done as well)
Ay Koyunlu
Mamelukes
Crimean Khaganate
Safavids
Hejaz
The "other" Turkish state/s in Eastern Anatolia
I will redo the Ottoman flag, I suppose (darken it a little, clear out the blurryness, etc)
Late Byzantium, and even the Kingdom of Greece are done, yes.
I'm not sure on what to do with the "other" Turkish states in Eastern Anatolia. I'm not sure which one to take as the basis. I think I'll just make up a flag.
EDIT: By the way, yes, that's a good enough list of civs, I'd say
BTW, we might be the only ones working on this (
), but the rest will FOREVER REGRET IT! 
Late Byzantium, and even the Kingdom of Greece are done, yes.
I'm not sure on what to do with the "other" Turkish states in Eastern Anatolia. I'm not sure which one to take as the basis. I think I'll just make up a flag.
EDIT: By the way, yes, that's a good enough list of civs, I'd say
BTW, we might be the only ones working on this (
), but the rest will FOREVER REGRET IT! 
I kinda follow the thread, at least. I'm unsure how big the map will be, and if my computer will be able to handle it, but I'll try.Originally posted by SpincruS
...BTW, we might be the only ones working on this (
As I'm working on two fantasy mods already my modding curriculum is kinda full. 
aaminion00
Stoned
Originally posted by mrtn
I kinda follow the thread, at least. I'm unsure how big the map will be, and if my computer will be able to handle it, but I'll try.
mrtn, I have one thing in particular I'd like your help on. Unless I'm mistaken (sorry SpincruS), SpincruS can't make the advisor.pcx's for his flag leaderheads. I'm wondering if once SpincruS is done with the flags you could make the advisor.pcx like you did for Unexisted's Nubian leaderhead?
aaminion00
Stoned
@mrtn - Excellent. And the map by the way, is not very large at all.
@All
Here are the icons I plan to use on the tech tree. I'll start making the skeletons over the weekend, and then as the buildings/units/resources are decided upon, we'll implement them (phase 3). Noticve that I'm missing two icons, so if anyone can make the following I'd be very happy.
Medieval Philosophy
I'd like either a monk working on translating a latin text in his monastery, or a picture representing Arabic philosophy and learning. Perhaps some Arabic calligraphy representing science?
Sultanate
Best would just be a Coat of Arms of the Ottoman Sultanate, or something representing this style of govermant overall. OR we could make the current "Islamic Influence" icon the Sultanate icon, and find a new one for Islamic influence, which would perhaps be easier.
@All
Here are the icons I plan to use on the tech tree. I'll start making the skeletons over the weekend, and then as the buildings/units/resources are decided upon, we'll implement them (phase 3). Noticve that I'm missing two icons, so if anyone can make the following I'd be very happy.
Medieval Philosophy
I'd like either a monk working on translating a latin text in his monastery, or a picture representing Arabic philosophy and learning. Perhaps some Arabic calligraphy representing science?
Sultanate
Best would just be a Coat of Arms of the Ottoman Sultanate, or something representing this style of govermant overall. OR we could make the current "Islamic Influence" icon the Sultanate icon, and find a new one for Islamic influence, which would perhaps be easier.
Attachments
Similar threads
