Rise of U.S.S.R sub mod development thread

[Nightinggale]

Well, after reading this I think vehicles should actually be Units that we can transport around, maybe But I still think it would be more simple to just make Vehicles a requirement for Professions, that way we can keep the same Promotion system going. The Pilot is the one who is gaining experience not the lifeless mechanical tank. Tanks would be the weapon the Unit is using at that moment, but it is still up to the skill of the Driver or Crew to manipulate his vehicle to the best of its abilities.

Transporting units should not affect the profession/promotion system. We make a tank driver profession and it can get a certain set of promotions. If artillery should gain different promotions, then we will have an artillery driver profession in addition to the tank driver profession.

There would be an issue with this though, or any method that uses actual Vehicles, and that is how to differentiate between a Piloted Tank and a none Piloted one. When selecting a stack of units you would have to manually skip the none piloted ones. And it could be confusing as to what cities are actually defended by a Piloted Tank. If none piloted tanks are on the map there would need to be a graphical difference, so maybe they could be half the size of a Piloted tank and none selectable in the unit cycle...

What you are saying is that we need some simple "hide 0 power units" or something like that. That would be a good thing in general. Changing the size of the art is also a good idea. We can also make a virtual unit, which contains all the empty vehicles on the plot. We have a bunch of possible solutions for issues like that. That is one reason why I said it's a concept proposal, not a solution.

 

[Fullerene]

Althought it's maybe too early for this (I would say, I try to get first playable version of this mod done before end of this year), if someone wants to help a little, please post some art that mod could use. Helps also to get into right modding mood

Music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPeriSAdum0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLg83QMmlGs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ9q7N5e25c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9JtNijl5ts

(I'm not really fan of Soviet Union and it's achievements, but it surely had great music! And it makes a great atmosphere for a mod.)

Posters/Background pics: (I'm sorry if text is something inappropriate. I don't speak Russian, I just found pics with google. Maybe someone could translate?)

Current Main menu/Loading screen picture:

Other good looking pics:

 

[Trade Winds]

Althought it's maybe too early for this

The first thing you do to promote your mod is the first thing the soviets would do: Monumental propaganda.

 

[Fullerene]

Going back to this after few months it seems I don't remember what I was doing. I have load of XML errors. Anyway it's nothing too serious. Not too much work was done yet and the M:C version I was working on is outdated now. I think I'm better of starting from the scratch anyway.

How do I access latest SDK version of M:C? Or what version of M:C should I use this mod? Or is RaR maybe better platform for this mod? M:C of course has the tech tree implemented.

I'm not yet sure if I try to accomplish the USSR themed mod or maybe more general industrial/World War(s) mod, time will tell. I think I simply start with graphical conversation.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Yes I was going to say, right now M:C is in massive code flux (for the better) but trying to do a lot of coding right now is probably going to see you constantly redoing, and modifying to meet with the 'next' version.

Gathering graphics for the various 'industrial' elements of 'modernising' work forces and military forces, gathering resource graphics (you are welcome to any of my WHM resources, or I may end up pinching your stuff if it is better) As well as planning the various elements and ideas is probably going to be a better use of time, until M:C 'stabilises' (it is not unstable, just constantly changing and evolving, right now plans are being made to throw out vanilla economic code and completely replace it, and that is just one of the plans! )

Starting with the theme of industrial age/WW era, would already introduce many exciting gameplay oppurtunities or differences, for example using the mulitple trade screens, you could make a euro centric game with the goal being not so much building up your raw yield production, but actually building up sufficient trade links/shipping with the 'colonies' to haul ever increasing amounts of raw materials into your ever increasing industrial capacity, then selling the produced products locally and abroad.

 

[Nightinggale]

How do I access latest SDK version of M:C? Or what version of M:C should I use this mod? Or is RaR maybe better platform for this mod? M:C of course has the tech tree implemented.

https://sourceforge.net/p/colonizationmodcollection/Medieval_Conquest/ci/master/tree/

If you do XML modding only, then you should use the stable DLL. By definition master branch is the last stable release.

Do note that python and DLL source use submodules and select branches independently from the main branch. I plan to write a wiki page (or multiple) on how to set up git using the submodules. In fact I want to do it ASAP and hopefully within 24 hours.

I would prefer to make a git module for your work on SF because then we can all track what you are doing. We can always just delete modules again without affecting other modules meaning we will not lose anything if the mod turns out to never be playable. All I need is a module name and a user account, which should have write permission to it and I will be able to make the module with very little effort.

You made some DLL changes at some point, which I still have lying around. They didn't survive the move to sourceforge though, but I can move it if needed. I don't recall it being much code though.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

The main DLL change he made was for multiple invasons, and 'triggers' and such around that, I can't remember if there was other content.

 

[raystuttgart]

Or what version of M:C should I use this mod ?

M:C is still undergoing heavy (and interesting) development / changes.

Building a modmod from a mod that is still changing so heavily, is not necessarily easy, since a lot of new features and functionalities with XML changes (units, professions, ...)
and bugfixes or improvments as well are likely to be developed (or changed) which will need continuous adjustments in the modmod.

Most of the things that happen in DLL considering new features affect XML.
So even if you always simply use the DLL of M:C, you will have lots of work.

If you branch your modmod now, you will have 2 alternatives:

1) Constantly adjusting to new versions of the base mod
or
2) Missing a lot of interesting improvments and features

Both alternatives are not really great.

So if you want to build your mod on M:C most likely the best strategies would be:

A) For now try to support the base mod so it will progress faster.
(At some point in the future, use a much more advanced and stable version of M:C to create your modmod.)

and/or

B) While M:C is still under heavy development use the time for general preparations.
(Creating and discussing concepts or colllecting graphics, sounds, background information, ...)

Or is RaR maybe better platform for this mod ? M:C of course has the tech tree implemented.

RaR is more "mature" but also still constantly undergoing changes and enhancments.
(Changes / development is not as heavy anymore as it still is in M:C.)

But considering a mod(mod) for modern times, M:C does have some better suiting features and concepts.
(e.g. Land Starts and Technologies)

Spoiler :

Maybe we might even develop a system for technologies and civics ourselves in RaR.
(Although my concept / vision for that is quite different to the implementation in M:C.)

But that would be in the "far" future.
(About half a year probably.)

Things also look very differently for programmers and non-programmers.

As a non-programmer you might simply not be able to change RaR yourself into a mod that really suits "modern times" in a way you like.
(RaR features simply do not try to suite for "modern times" and never will.)

As a programmer, adapting the "modern times" features from M:C to RaR is of course possible.
But I just don't know how many M:C features you would want to adapt and thus cannot estimate how much effort it would be.

--------

Summary:

The only person that can really know how you want to proceed is you.
Every path you might chooses has its advantages or disadvantages.

I believe:

For your plans M:C does fit much better considering concepts and features.

However, it is currently still too early to seriously start working on a modmod based on / branched of M:C
because the base mod is still changing too heavily and still has several issues to solve (e.g. Multiplayer compatibility).

Currently it would be much better to support M:C base mod development so it might progress faster and branch of your modmod some time in the future.

 

[Kailric]

That's some good advice ray. There is still lots todo in M:C, so doing preliminary work first such as adding unit graphics and such would be best.

I am actually looking into doing some kind of multi invasion setup for M:C. Already I've added:

Religious Center Civs (aka Pope): can start on the map with advanced cities, such as the Provinces of Rome.

Minor Civs: similar to Natives but can become more advanced

Nation States: start with advanced cities aka the Byzantium Empire

Invasion Civs: these Civs are set to appear at different ages such as Vikings in the Viking age. With XML settings they can be setup to be very aggressive, found settlements, and do lots of terrorizing of the neighborhood

All these changes are not hardcoded and you can set it up to play as normal in the XML.

I am also working on a new Victory type were you attempt to gain Victory Points either through Diplomacy, Trade, or Domination.

Anyway, one of the planned updates will be on warfare but we haven't got that far yet. I would love to see an Industrial Age mod that starts just before WWI and continues through both World Wars and perhaps a third. With update combat effects that I would love to help out with.

As you can see, lots of changes ahead.

@ray

You mentioned having different ideas in techs and civics. Are these ideas documented somewhere as I'd like to see what you had in mind? I simply followed Civ4's system as it was the easiest to do atm.
So I am always open to some improvements.

 

[raystuttgart]

You mentioned having different ideas in techs and civics.

The main technical difference would be, that I would clearly separate techs and civics.

Also I wanted to use techs a lot to unlock features.
Thus the concept is also very specific to RaR.

Last but not least I believe that a lot of things could be coded much more performant than they were in Civ4(BtS).
However, I have a huge list of other things that I would like to do first.

Are these ideas documented somewhere as I'd like to see what you had in mind ?

A lot was discussed about technologies for Civ4:Col in several threads (sometimes in German) and private messages.

My real concept exist only in my brain though.
I usually prefer to start detail discussions of concepts shortly before I want to start implementation.

 

[Nightinggale]

The main technical difference would be, that I would clearly separate techs and civics.

I would have done so too if I were to make something from scratch. However a number of civic features also applies well to inventions and making them share code makes a whole lot of coding easier. Now XML modders can do something like having +1 units on docks for both inventions and civics without extra DLL coding. The fact that the DLL modder don't have to decide if it is a civic or invention ability gives a much higher degree of freedom to XML modders, which is a very good thing considering we are using a shared DLL code.

Leaving specifics aside, I agree with ray that it could be most productive if we join effort on a low number of mods at the moment rather than having plenty of one man mods. Most noteworthy here is that it would be a one man XML mod even though it's one of those rare modders, who can code C++.

 

[Kailric]

I would have done so too if I were to make something from scratch. However a number of civic features also applies well to inventions and making them share code makes a whole lot of coding easier.

I would have done a lot of things different knowing what I know now, but the current civic types is stable and the beauty of it is we can add new info types when ever we need one like Censures, Anarchy, Techs, Civics, and Trading Perks all share the same XML, and can be safely applied and removed in the DLL.

Leaving specifics aside, I agree with ray that it could be most productive if we join effort on a low number of mods at the moment rather than having plenty of one man mods. Most noteworthy here is that it would be a one man XML mod even though it's one of those rare modders, who can code C++.

I agree with you both. Fullerene sounds like an asset and if he teamed up with us to knock out some of the major additions to get the DLL more complete then we could join forces to knock out his modding ambitions.

 

[Fullerene]

Thanks for all the replies.

I thought about it and it makes sense. I shall join the knights of the round table!
It helps me to develop modding skills and I can also let the ideas for Industrial World War mod form further.

Just give me tasks to do and forgive me if I reject them if I find them too difficult. I'll do best I can however.

And I think it's time to resurrect the Europe map scenario development for M:C too.

 

[Nightinggale]

Just give me tasks to do and forgive me if I reject them if I find them too difficult. I'll do best I can however.

Saying no because you can't code it or simply don't feel like it shouldn't be a bad thing, which needs forgiveness. For some reason some people have the idea that force assigning a task they don't want themselves to somebody else and then deny them the right to say no is an easy way to avoid tricky tasks. What it is in reality is a good way to get people to leave entirely and I have no intension of doing anything like that.

What I think we need is filling in outstanding tasks in SF's ticket system. Whenever a coder wants something new to do, he can look at the tickets and assign one to himself. That way we have coordinated work without doing double work while at the same time tasks are not forced on people.

I'm not really good at proposing tasks right now because all I can think of are the tasks I plan to do myself, which would be bad to propose because not only do I plan to do them myself, they are also somewhat tricky.

 

[Kailric]

Thanks for all the replies.

I thought about it and it makes sense. I shall join the knights of the round table!
It helps me to develop modding skills and I can also let the ideas for Industrial World War mod form further.

Just give me tasks to do and forgive me if I reject them if I find them too difficult. I'll do best I can however.

And I think it's time to resurrect the Europe map scenario development for M:C too.

Wondermuch, we shall then join for the Glory of us All!

Speaking of modding skills what and how proficient are you at the used languages, XML, Python, C++, Skins, and Nifs? Just to give me an idea of what your are capable of.

And I love to see a good Europe Map for Scenarios for sure

I will look through all the proposed ideas we have and as Nightinggale pointed out I can post some tasks on SourceForge, making sure to post a bunch that would be useful to a Industrial Mod as well so that you for sure feel like you are working towards your goal.

Are you familiar with Git? It can be quite tricky I know. I have used it for several months now and still have issues. Night is working on a tutorial for downloading files and he just posted a link to his progress in the download section.

EDIT:I updated the Current and Future updates thread with most of our intended improvements: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=505732

 

[Fullerene]

Speaking of modding skills what and how proficient are you at the used languages, XML, Python, C++, Skins, and Nifs? Just to give me an idea of what your are capable of.

I believe i can manage XML and Python. C++ can sometimes cause problems. But the thing isn't that I can't code, but does my code meet your standards.

For art I have no skills. I can convert civ4 art to civ4col with the help of tutorial though.

 

[Nightinggale]

I believe i can manage XML and Python. C++ can sometimes cause problems. But the thing isn't that I can't code, but does my code meet your standards.

The code you have written so far looks fine to me and I'm not worried about that. Write comments about what you intend the code to do and I will take a look at whatever you commit and see if there are issues. This goes for both python and C++.

 

[Daw]

OMG, what I see here! A standing ovation to both the idea and the very wise decision to make it later but better.

Although my modding skills are miserably pathetic, I could and humbly request to let me contribute to concept/historical/cultural/atmospheric aspects, because I happen to be a real live Russian born in USSR. And I see it as a very personal opportunity to honor the memory of my lost (since the USSR is no more any more) Motherland and the drama of my ancestors who lived in times of Stalin and WWII.

Seriously, guys, I just want you not to accidentally make a comedy of it by making all Russians bearded, or making every building look like an overgrown St.Basyl's Cathedral, or something else in a style of "Red Heat", which, though not intended as such, still is a comedy to any Russian.

For instance, the 4th poster (based on the Soldier's uniform) is from 60s the earliest, which is out of the mod timeframe.

As for what they read:

1st (the big one): "Our great party of Lenin-Stalin organized the Red Army, tendered it and made it invincible." The poster belongs to some 30s, so it perfectly fits both the timeframe and the concept of the mod.

2nd (the one with Lenin): " 'a spectre is haunting Europe, the spectre of communism." (the phrase is a quotation from the "Manifesto of the Communist Party") The poster belongs to some 20s, which meets the mod timeframe start.

3rd (the one with Stalin): "Beloved Stalin - people's fortune." - dated 1950 - out of the mod timeframe, same as the 4th.

 

[Nightinggale]

Although my modding skills are miserably pathetic, I could and humbly request to let me contribute to concept/historical/cultural/atmospheric aspects, because I happen to be a real live Russian born in USSR.

Stalin left some of those alive

You could likely contribute with a whole lot more than you realize as some modding tasks aren't that technically demanding. Some of the simplest tasks would be filling out text for the pedia pages.

There is also the option of translating the game to Russian if you feel like doing so. I don't know how well the game handles non-English characters, but we can always find out if needed
I heavily modified how the game treats languages and adding a brand new language is more or less just start filling in text. If you want to translate, then you are welcome to start right away on Medieval Conquest. It will likely take a while before this mod is in a state where translating it will make sense. As Medieval Conquest is the base for this, translating that one mean all unmodified strings will be translated even before the mod translation is started.

An example on how to translate:

<TEXT>
	<Tag>TXT_KEY_NO_DEFAULT_LUXURY_POP_UNIT</Tag>
	<English>No Luxury Growth Unit</English>
	[COLOR="Red"]<Russian>Some Russian words</Russian>[/COLOR]
</TEXT>

Add the red line and you translated that string and can move on to the next one. The text is in Assets\XML\TEXT.

Seriously, guys, I just want you not to accidentally make a comedy of it by making all Russians bearded, or making every building look like an overgrown St.Basyl's Cathedral, or something else in a style of "Red Heat", which, though not intended as such, still is a comedy to any Russian.

If it ends up anything like Tintin in USSR, then I might hunt down Fullerene for spoiling a perfectly good opportunity for a mod. (the Tintin story is good btw, it is just hilariously incorrect)

 

[Kailric]

Welcome to the M:C forums Daw! I imagine Fullerene would appreciate the assistance on this mod, besides what Nightinggale mentioned there should be several things you could do. I am not sure what all Units and other art Fullerene has accumulated for this mod, but one thing that would be useful would be to round up all the Unit time period appropriate art (or other kinds of art) that can be found and if nothing else provide links so they can be download when needed.

OMG, what I see here! A standing ovation to both the idea and the very wise decision to make it later but better.

Although my modding skills are miserably pathetic, I could and humbly request to let me contribute to concept/historical/cultural/atmospheric aspects, because I happen to be a real live Russian born in USSR. And I see it as a very personal opportunity to honor the memory of my lost (since the USSR is no more any more) Motherland and the drama of my ancestors who lived in times of Stalin and WWII.

Seriously, guys, I just want you not to accidentally make a comedy of it by making all Russians bearded, or making every building look like an overgrown St.Basyl's Cathedral, or something else in a style of "Red Heat", which, though not intended as such, still is a comedy to any Russian.