Rise of U.S.S.R sub mod development thread

[Trade Winds]

Anyway, about resupply, I'd like to try out some of the different options mentioned. If you are going for Realism, then there needs to be some management of Logistics, which adds to the stretegic depth. If it is automated to much then there is no strategy. Like the Trade Points system, there isn't really much strategy other than get as much points as possible and choose a perk from time to time, but that's what I intended.

I would also enjoy more this option. I would enjoy some more micromanagement. Besides, it is unreal to upkeep a campain in the Baltic Sea or the Artic Sea by simply stockpiling food in Leningrad or Murmansk.

 

[Fullerene]

That's a good list. I wonder if we could simply make fuel and ammo a profession. In order to leave a city you must change profession to Fueled and Loaded, which equips the Unit and changes attack power and movement (for fuel units) then there are three state Professions; Out of Fuel, Out of Ammo, or Out of Fuel and Ammo. Sounds like it could be a simple solution to just drop movement to 0 or attack to 0 just from a profession change.

That's interesting idea. But can units like tank and artillery have a profession? Hmmm...It's also interesting that AI might be able to use that kind of system too.

But if you run out of fuel you can't go back to city to change the profession... some new code has to be written anyway. Besides I'm also planning the infantry to have coats that protect them from cold during winter, so there is need for many professions... it can become complicated.

I would also enjoy more this option. I would enjoy some more micromanagement. Besides, it is unreal to upkeep a campain in the Baltic Sea or the Artic Sea by simply stockpiling food in Leningrad or Murmansk.

That's a good point. It just might end up to require a calculator to play the game efficiently, which on the other hand might be really interesting. But I'm open for experimental mod for sure, that has lot of details.

Micromanagement is what Colonization is all about.

 

[Nightinggale]

That's interesting idea. But can units like tank and artillery have a profession? Hmmm...It's also interesting that AI might be able to use that kind of system too.

We could have a tank profession, which requires a tank yield. We can then make a "building", which requires X hammers+tools+whatever and it will produce one tank yield.

Actually now that I think about it, we could make all vehicles into professions like that if we really want that. That would provide the ability to invent a new vehicle and then take a unit with experience, which can start operating it instead of starting all vehicles without experience.

This way we can also load tanks on to trains, but I assume that one unit of tank yield would take up more space than one unit of food yield. 600 tanks on one train seems a bit overpowered.

 

[Trade Winds]

I don't quite like this. I don't like vehicles as yields.

I stil like DoaNE solution with ships and sailors. That could be applied to all vehicles. Also, I don't remember it well but in one of the mods, I think also DoaNE, you could load wagons onto ships.

If only M07 showed us the way...

 

[Kailric]

That's interesting idea. But can units like tank and artillery a profession? Hmmm...It's also interesting that AI might be able to use that kind of system too.

Professions code can be changed to allow for what ever rules we want. I created an Engineer mode for Civ4 that allowed Tanks and such to become disabled and your Engineers could go out and repair them. Even the AI could do this. I have worked with the AI well enough and Understand how the AI functions enough that I am confident on adding new tasks for them.

But if you run out of fuel you can't go back to city to change the profession... some new code has to be written anyway. Besides I'm also planning the infantry to have coats that protect them from cold during winter, so there is need for many professions... it can become complicated.

This is where Supply Trucks or Lines come in. You would add two new attributes to Units called Fuel and Ammo. When a Unit ran out of fuel their profession would auto change, same with Ammo. Then they would need to be resupplied.

Actually I bet movement points for Vehicles could be modded so that they do not replenish each turn, instead you'd have like 20 moves that would need refueling.


Winter coats sounds cool, you do know you can change the time scale to be in Months. You could require coats in the winter months or units could freeze.

 

[Kailric]

If only M07 showed us the way...

What ever they can do we can do also, there is no code sacred

 

[Willi_Tell]

What an interesting thread! Glad to see the Civ4Col-Modding Comunity that alive!

This is where Supply Trucks or Lines come in. You would add two new attributes to Units called Fuel and Ammo. When a Unit ran out of fuel their profession would auto change, same with Ammo. Then they would need to be resupplied.

I really like this idea/concept! (as I always loved the ammo-feature from DoaNE)

Winter coats sounds cool, you do know you can change the time scale to be in Months. You could require coats in the winter months or units could freeze.

Although there will be quite a lot of micromanagement if you implements things like that, I really like this idea too! (I mean, it's RUSSIA)

by the way: there is a "russian civil mod" in the Civ4 section, containing an amazing bunch of cool units!
Happy pillaging and happy modding!

 

[Lib.Spi't]

hey peeps, just found this looks like fun, and wll help develop a lot of the ideas for the Modern part of WH (Yippee!)

On the subject of 'vehicles' I planned to make them professions that require yields, rather than like ships that need constructing.

So in my plan a 'tank' would require a person, + Armour(vehicle Armour) + Artllery pieces (gun etc.) and engine parts.

A light tank would require 25 of each, a medium 50 and a heavy 100 (or whatever) this gives you the ability to send home your experienced tank and crew and upgrade to the latest available model provided you get all the parts together.

This means that a train would only be able to transport say the the equivalent of 10 light tanks, 6 medium tanks or 3 heavy tanks (or whatever).

As well as making it important to have a small 'depot town' near your front line so that troops can upgrade quickly with the latest equipment stored there.

With sub professions you can get troops equipped with winter coats and such, and that profession like (winter coat infantry) would have free promos with snow/ice bonuses, if you make snow/ice a feature, you could potentially have it appear and disappear with the seasons.

As to fuel, you should look at fury road, as this has a python refueling system based on promotions, 4 levels of gas tank, and when it is empty it is changed to a far less effective (immobile) version. Then a fuel truck can be sacrificed to refuel a whole stack, so you would just need to plan ahead rather than micromanage, you know a tank can go 3 squares per turn and fuel runs out after 10 turns so you would need 1 fuel truck per 30 squares of travel. Although it would need to be modified to work with col differences, it could be a good starting point.

 

[Trade Winds]

What ever they can do we can do also, there is no code sacred

Of course, no doubt about that at all.

You M:C team did the most interesting feature for Civ4Col which was the tech tree, a huge step forward that changed a static game into a dinamic one. And people started dreaming again.

But the most admirable thing is that you opened it up to us fans to let us expand your
tree.

 

[Fullerene]

I both like and dislike the idea of tanks as yields.Some notes:

Good things:
-Can create tank crews easily.
-You can produce more realistic numbers of tanks: for example if you have 100 tank divisions, you have produced at least 5000 tanks. I like this detail, although it means nothing to gameplay.
-If it's possible to require also hammers (in addition to steel,tools,etc) to produce tanks yields, building them isn't too different from building tanks as vehicle.

Problems:
-You have city under siege that has 49 tank yields and 50 yields is required to form tank division, very annoying.
-You have city with 20 T-26 tanks and 40 T-34 tanks. You can't form tank division.
-The more different tank models (and other vehicles) you have,the more yields are needed.(Yield flood). Also adding new tanks to mod will be harder.

 

[Nightinggale]

If it's possible to require also hammers (in addition to steel,tools,etc) to produce tanks yields, building them isn't too different from building tanks as vehicle.

Not currently possible, but we can implement this if needed.

-You have city under siege that has 49 tank yields and 50 yields is required to form tank division, very annoying.
-You have city with 20 T-26 tanks and 40 T-34 tanks. You can't form tank division.

Easy: the profession needs 50 tanks, but we can also have a weaker profession using 20 tanks.

-The more different tank models (and other vehicles) you have,the more yields are needed.(Yield flood). Also adding new tanks to mod will be harder.

Good point.

To be honest I didn't really think this idea though. I just wrote what came to my mind as an input to the debate on what and how to do stuff for this mod. The yield+profession approach is possibly not as great as adding units to become crew on a unit. However adding a crew will take a lot of coding while yields and professions are already in the DLL. In fact the only change in the DLL would be to add the ability to produce yields with hammers and possibly other yields. We already have point generation for founding fathers and we could likely make something similar.

Admittedly yields should be added to the DLL as well, but I don't really think of that as a DLL change as it is just a list. In fact it is just XML setup put into the DLL for performance reasons.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

I like playing with simple things in the DLL, it makes me feel clever

The cool thing of yields over 'making' is with, the new sub profession system you can do all kinds of stuff. (personally I prefer the parts being yields rather than all the 'tanks' as yields)

But you can have all kinds of tanks require all kinds of yields combos, so if you have say a small amount of artillery parts (guns) and lots of armour, you can make a Heavy infantry support tank with a mortar style HE gun. Lots of gun, little armour, a tank hunter. If you have Automatic weapons you can make a variant with anti infantry bonuses added on. With generic yields and subprofessions the combinations of tanks and variants can be endless, and a crew can also be upgraded to the latest variants by returning to a base with sufficient supplies.

The biggest benefit of all, is all the code is there already and done! No more work! (well complicated work) Yippee!!

 

[Kailric]

I like playing with simple things in the DLL, it makes me feel clever

The cool thing of yields over 'making' is with, the new sub profession system you can do all kinds of stuff. (personally I prefer the parts being yields rather than all the 'tanks' as yields)

But you can have all kinds of tanks require all kinds of yields combos, so if you have say a small amount of artillery parts (guns) and lots of armour, you can make a Heavy infantry support tank with a mortar style HE gun. Lots of gun, little armour, a tank hunter. If you have Automatic weapons you can make a variant with anti infantry bonuses added on. With generic yields and subprofessions the combinations of tanks and variants can be endless, and a crew can also be upgraded to the latest variants by returning to a base with sufficient supplies.

The biggest benefit of all, is all the code is there already and done! No more work! (well complicated work) Yippee!!

I like your variant idea of having "Parts" that make a Tank Profession. Parts could actually be built in a City. Instead of having say 50 Armour, you Cities could just build 1 at a time. So, you would need 1 Armour, 1 Artillery, and 1 Engine, to make a Tank, or 2 Armour to make a Heavy Tank. This may start too seem more like sifi though, like you're building a Mech, which would be really cool for a futuristic mod if there was one around

 

[Lib.Spi't]

You could do it like that, but really, why change the math at all?

Using larger amounts of productivity, like the standard 1-6 type gives you a lot more variety for variants, it also makes industrialising your buildings important.

 

[Kailric]

You could do it like that, but really, why change the math at all?

Using larger amounts of productivity, like the standard 1-6 type gives you a lot more variety for variants, it also makes industrialising your buildings important.

I was just thinking it would eliminate the 49 or even 24 Armors predicament and not being able to make a tank.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

hehe

Yeah my feeling is to have a whole bunch of different 'units' so you can make things when you only have like 10, obviously they will be rubbish, but they will be a last ditch event.

I mean really it is no different than soldiers in M:C, if you only have 49 weapons it is the same issue

 

[Nightinggale]

I mean really it is no different than soldiers in M:C, if you only have 49 weapons it is the same issue

It's no different from RaR or vanilla either. I agree that it can be annoying though. I added a soldier (the starting one) to a city in RaR and lost a musket due to overflow. I was then attacked by indians while I still had 49 muskets
It didn't matter though as the number of indians meant I should have had 500 muskets, not just 50.

 

[Fullerene]

I mean really it is no different than soldiers in M:C, if you only have 49 weapons it is the same issue

To me some 40 tanks just sounds like formidable force,that any general would like to use in difficult situations. Gameplay wise, it of course isn't that important.

Anyway I think I'll have tanks as units, and maybe try to create tank crew code.

---

I'm wondering if soldier's equipment can be done with professions. So far I have planned the following yields as infantry equipment:
*Rifles
*Automatic Weapons
*Uniforms
*Winter Coats - protects from winter frost.
*Helmets -less collateral damage from shrapnels. (Maybe bonus defence against artillery)
*Food ratios (which soldiers consume each turn. I think this will be handled by DLL attribute to unit class, rather than profession)

At the moment I have 3 infantry professions:

*Red Guard (50 rifiles)
*Red Army Division (50 rifles,50 uniforms)
*NKVD Division (50 automatic weapons,50 uniforms)

Ok, rifles and automatic weapons will be different professions, but problems is that winter coats and helmets aren't compulsory equipment. You can have:
*minimum equipment
*coats
*helmets
*coats and helmets
For 3 types of infantry this makes total 12 different infantry professions. And there will likely be anti-tank infantry or anti-tank equipment too.And maybe medic equipment... and maybe more.
It just seems that it easily becomes profession flood. But maybe it's easiest way to handle this anyway.

---

List of Units (incomplete), some units may need better name

• Agricultural Worker - good farmer and planter, lacks other skills
• Factory Worker -good blacksmith,gunsmith,carpenter etc., lacks other skills
• Rural worker - good miner,lumberjack and fur trapper, lacks other skills
• Common worker -"free colonist", no weakness,no special bonuses
• Comrade(page) - good propagandist,statesman..etc.
• Communist (squire) -same as above
• Party Member (nobleman) - same as above
• Veteran
• Scientist - only unit to produce research
• Immigrant -can't become "politically active"(comrade,communist,party member)
• Kulak - good farmer but has some negative effects
• Specialists
• Vehicles - tanks,planes,artillery,trains,ships,trucks,tractors

I'm not historian, so I'm open to hear ideas for units and professions.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

Criminals make suicide battalions!

 

[Fullerene]

Criminals make suicide battalions!

Good one. I will use that.