(Rising Tide) Sponsor Bonus Discussion

The Naug

Chieftain
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Aug 10, 2014
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The old sponsor bonuses seems to all have been tweaked and/or changed. What we know so far is the following.

Old Sponsors

ARC: Covert ops complete 30% faster and require one less intrigue level to attempt.
PAC: First wonder built in every city is free. +1 diplomatic capital from wonders.
Slavic Federation: Strategic costs for orbital units reduced by 1. Start with five petroleum, geothermal and titanium resources.
Polystralia: +2 trade routes in capitol. +1 in all other cities.
Brasila: War Score points increased by 30%. Gain 1 Diplomatic Capital for each unit killed combat.
Kavithan Protectorate: Culture and Energy costs to aquire new City plots are reduced by 30%.
African Union: 10% Food in growing Cities when Healthy. All Specialist Citizens produce 1 extra yield.
Franco-Iberia: Gains 1 free virtue for every virtue gained from culture.


New Sponsors

Al Falah: Yield from city processes increased by 150%
INTEGR: Diplomatic Agreements are cost 50% less diplomatic capital. Units and Buildings cost 25% less diplomatic capital.
NSA: Aquatic cities have 50% increase City Strength and cost 50% less to move.


Except for the three new sponsors, it is not known how the old sponsors bonuses will scale(since they are all upgradable now).

Brasilia's and the African Union's bonuses seems to have changed the most. The exact mechanics of War Score are not yet revealed and its hard to gauge exactly how strong it is. 1 diplomatic capital per killed unit seems rather weak. I would assume this amount is upgradable(perhaps +1/+2/+3 per kill).

AU's sponsor bonus is clearly geared toward going tall. Beyond Earth didn't really have a clear tall/wide divide like CiV did so it will be interesting to see how strong it is. I can't recall exactly how specialists work in BE, but I would presume they cost less health than normal citizens like their counter parts in CiV. However, it remains to be seen if they have changed the formula for city growth which at the moment doesn't really favor tall builds.

Kavitha's bonus seem to be changed to also have some use in water cities. However, it doesn't seem to speed up outpost growth anymore.

The Slavic Federation's bonus seem like it could be powerful, depending on what they do with satellites. Many satellites have costs of 1-2 strategic resources and cutting each resource cost down 1 can remove a very large chunk of the resource cost relatively speaking. No changes have yet been revealed to the orbital layer but I certainly hope they do a polish pass on it and the balance and pacing of satellites. It all felt pretty incomplete in vanilla BE imo.

Regarding the PAC, I assume the free cost is in regards to the strategic resources it costs to build the wonders rather than the actual production(hammers) of the wonder. The latter would be OP but the former seems pretty meh. It depends again on what wonders look like in Rising Tide. If earlier wonders gain geothermal costs this could still be pretty good. I assume that the diplomatic capital is upgradable to something like +1/+2/+3 per wonder per turn.

The Al Falah bonus looks super powerful.


Those are my thoughts so far. What do you guys think?


EDIT: Corrected Al Falah's bonus to 150% as noted by the posters below. Added FI's bonus to the list.
EDIT 2: Misunderstood the FI bonus. Fixed.
 
If true, PAC bonus is pretty dumb. So you get free wonders AND a bonus from them. Ok Firaxis.
Or wait.... Wonders suck in that game so I guess it's okay !
Nobody sees the design failure of this ? That must be something else.

Polystralia is +1 in every city. For those that really love the terrible TR system in order to spam it early.

AlFalah bonus may be good. Integer bonus sounds pretty strong from the glimpse I've seenof the agreements system.
 
OP specialists strategy: PAU bonus + student aid agreement (specialists cost no food) + Hands Never Idle virtue.
 
The only way to make the wonders section of the game work with the PAC bonus is if wonders get buffed(again), they all get resource costs and the PAC bonus make the first cost no resources(but normal production) per city.

If PAC's bonus makes the wonders cost no production wonders have to be weak. But perhaps more damning, investing into wonders become even worse for all other civs once PAC is in the game. Ten, twenty, thirty turns of production all poofed in one turn because PAC chose to build that wonder in their latest 1 pop city. That would just be broken.

I hope they buff wonders again. That's all I can say.
 
If true, PAC bonus is pretty dumb. So you get free wonders AND a bonus from them. Ok Firaxis.
Or wait.... Wonders suck in that game so I guess it's okay !
Nobody sees the design failure of this ? That must be something else.

Polystralia is +1 in every city. For those that really love the terrible TR system in order to spam it early.

AlFalah bonus may be good. Integer bonus sounds pretty strong from the glimpse I've seenof the agreements system.

I've never been big a fan of trade routes, and I don't think the trade route spam from the Polystralia trait will be healthy for the game.

Also, the Kavithan ability feels very weak relative to the others. Basically they get tiles a tiny bit faster.
 
There was a tweet a while back that because of the feedback the PAC "Get a free Wonder"-Ability will be most likely removed.

My overall evaluations (based on Singleplayer, what we know about RT and Quick Apollo Victories and not taking upgrades into account, because we don't know how they scale yet):

Arc: Could actually be a somewhat "fair" bonus. Not having to steal energy and instead being able to steal science 2-3 times would mean quite a nice lategame-boost, if micro-managed (aka abuse) correctly (edit: And you could even concentrate on some really tiny city that no AI puts any offensive spies into to make sure the intrigue stays low enough so no counter-spying takes place.)

PAC: Stupid and will hopefully get changed

Slavic Federation: Complete trash in the current version of the game. Orbital Units with Resource Costs are too slow and therefore not being used, free resources... well, what for? Can't even trade them anymore, so meh. Could be a good bonus if the other lacking systems were overhauled.

Polystralia: Sounds insanely strong compared to what the other Vanilla Sponsors got at first, but that amount of trade routes may just be "too much", because even right now you almost run out of internal trade route targets with 5-city strategies. Not sure - I think it's rather strong if its actual bonus trade route slots this time around and not just unlock a trade route slot before you normally would.

Brasila: Well, depends on the Warscore Mechanic.

KP: No more outpost-growth. A huge nerf, probably the worst overall Sponsor now, because there's almost no need for extra tiles and the numbers are really low as well.

AU: Biggest nerf overall. No free Relic (which is good), and a Specialist Bonus that I can't really see any direct use for. If the Institute-Quest stays the way it is then science specialists are basically locked out. Wouldn't want to run +3 Food Specialists. Production Specialists may have a niche role. No need for Culture or Energy Specialists. But who knows, if the bonus scales well that could actually enable some specialist strategies.

Al Falah: Converting 62.5% of Production into something else? INSANELY op. Early growth. Early Culture. Lategame science. Very versatile and strong. If it goes live like that, then I predict Al Falah will be "God Tier".

INTEGR: Depends on the diplo system. Can't really judge how strong or weak that will be. But at least it sounds like a lot of versatility.

NSA: Well. Don't know. They have utility, but no "real", direct empire bonuses. I assume they'll be bad, unless that weird "send a city around and get all the tiles!"-strategy actually works on higher levels.
 
@Ryika

On the Slavic bonus, it would generally be nice to see more uses for strategic resources.
________________________

I think the Polystralian bonus will be overpowering, but I know it will be tedious.
 
Yes, especially with the Trading being gone completely it would be sad if the resources ended up completely unused.
 
We noticed in one of the Livestreams that the SF free strategics were able to be traded via Trade Routes. So one hidden benefit of the SF trait is that it makes other sponsors more likely to send trade routes to you.
 
I think Strategic Resources could benefit from strong buildings that require them - with more benefit for production cost than others.

Things like the Skycrane, only worthwhile.

If the game lasted longer, would a Skycrane that gave +25% and +5 Production be worthwhile?

Instead of the current +15% Production.

The quest options are +2 Production from Floatstone or +4 Floatstone.
 
Al Falah: Converting 62.5% of Production into something else? INSANELY op. Early growth. Early Culture. Lategame science. Very versatile and strong. If it goes live like that, then I predict Al Falah will be "God Tier".

Isn't it easy to get high prod in civbe on top of it ? :rolleyes:
 
Keep in mind that Leader Traits give you additional bonuses on top of your Sponsor bonus and all of the Traits are upgradeable. If that is not enough you can get even more bonuses in the form of Agreements which are also upgradeable by improving your relationship with other factions. Virtues are also still a thing.

As you may think I'm not too worried about weak or op sponsor bonuses.
 
Isn't it easy to get high prod in civbe on top of it ? :rolleyes:
Yep!

Keep in mind that Leader Traits give you additional bonuses on top of your Sponsor bonus and all of the Traits are upgradeable. If that is not enough you can get even more bonuses in the form of Agreements which are also upgradeable by improving your relationship with other factions. Virtues are also still a thing.

As you may think I'm not too worried about weak or op sponsor bonuses.
Virtues and Agreements are available to all sponsors and therefore don't have much influence on the general balance of the sponsors, unless there are strong synergies (actual synergies that increase the strength of both factors, not just "A gives science and B gives science, so... synergy!") to be had.
 
Seems like Brasilia and Al Falah will be my go to sponsors in BERT. Hopefully warscore will stop endless wars and give me a boost after I defend an assault. Al-Falah is just broken. Early game if I am not in a war I may have a few turns with nothing left to build this will enable me to rapidly grow any city even in snow type areas. Slavic can spam more high tech orbital units now, before I never considered picking them.
 
I wonder what the upgrades for Polystralia will be. If it's +1 trade routes per upgrade...oh boy. Even if they just come earlier and aren't true free routes that's a massive boost. If they are in addition to regular ones, Poly is going to be crazy going wide.
 
For PAC, I think they meant worker not wonder. Wonders are already free anyway in terms of no maintenance cost.

Also, has Al Falah been nerfed? It used to be 150% increase in city process.

ARC seems a bit more powerful and relevant now concerning spying, which is good.

AU finally no longer OP. Looks like a decent UA.

Also you forgot to mention that Franco-Iberia gains a free virtue for every 10 virtues acquired with culture (so excluding other free virtues including this one).
 
Also, has Al Falah been nerfed? It used to be 150% increase in city process.

That's just the rephrasing of their ability. Usual rate is 25% conversion, 25*2.52=62.5 .
 
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