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[Rising Tides] Hybrid Victories

Discussion in 'CivBE - Ideas and Suggestions' started by BrotherAriman, Sep 30, 2015.

  1. Ryika

    Ryika likes cookies and milk.

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    They're living as humans in a virtual world, maintaining their human form with all its "flaws". They're just using machines to work for them and as necessary to allow them to live this dream. They're basically baling out of reality to live what they think is a perfect life and leave behind machines to maintain that dream for them.

    So overall the method they use may very well be Supremacy-focused, their reasoning and their goals are Purity-focused. How they use machines is the way it is described by the developers for Supremacy-Purtiy Hybrids - they're servants. The only liberty I took from that is the semi-sentient AI that is being created during the victory quest.
     
  2. Galgus

    Galgus Chieftain

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    It sounds as if they've only stopped short of intentionally changing human psychology - no virtual form could be said to be equivalent to the human form.

    (Unless one considers aging and death inherent to it, though even Purity's vision of perfecting the human form could be interpreted to oppose that.)

    It's essentially a voluntary utopian version of The Matrix with the humans still in control.

    (Which reminds loosely me of Transistor, but that's off-topic.)
    __________________________

    If that isn't Supremacy's end goal, what would be?

    I could see how such a virtual world could be geared to Purity goals of preserving culture and the past, but it would seem far more Purity aligned to build a utopia in the physical world.

    I've always thought of uploading and permanently living in virtual worlds as being central to Supremacy's end-game, while Purity strives to create a physical utopia for humanity.
    ________________________________

    Sentient AIs are Supremacy, but they seem far less extreme of a Supremacy concept than living in virtual worlds.

    I actually think that Purity / Supremacy needs sentient AIs to separate itself from Purity enough - or it's just Purity, basically.
     
  3. Ryika

    Ryika likes cookies and milk.

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    I still can't follow why you'd think that living in a virtual world is a supremacy concept. I don't think that is a concept that has to be attributed to any affinity, every single one is technological advanced enough that virtual worlds could become interesting and potentially viable. It is very likely that Virtual Reality is part of the Entertainment for every one of them.

    Supremacy/Purity however is the only Affinity that could completely remove themselves from the world without becoming vulnerable to people just destroying their stuff and still only leave behind "beings" that they don't consider being part of what makes them what they are. That's why I liked the idea. It's basically the purest form of any Affinity(combination) being able to be like: "Alright, we're all gone now - bye!"
     
  4. GenEngineer

    GenEngineer Chieftain

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    I think the idea is that Purity always had a link to reality and bending it to their will, while Supremacy was detached from the environment. So going into virtual reality and ignoring the environment outright feels just right for Supremacy, while it seems less likely for Purity-Supremacy, who would be more likely to make their everyday lives as ideal as a dream by making robots deal with all the unpleasantness.
     
  5. Galgus

    Galgus Chieftain

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    Permanently living in a virtual world is very, very similar to uploading, which is extremely Supremacy aligned.

    It is also the affinity that advocates a merging of man and machine, which virtual worlds embody.

    I again stress the difference between planning to permanently live in a virtual world and using one for recreation - they are extremely different philosophically.

    It also brings in the issue of reproduction, unless children for the virtual world are simply grown.
    _____________________________________________________

    Supremacy could also do that, create AIs to support them while uploading themselves.

    Supremacy and Purity / Supremacy, if they were to do that, would likely continue research and development via simulations and controlling the machines from the virtual world.

    (Again, very loosely reminded of Transistor.)

    Neither would simply give up the reigns completely, though I still hold that this is a solid Supremacy concept.
    ________________________________________________

    @GenEngineer

    That is essentially my thoughts on it.

    I struggle to think of what could be more extreme as a Supremacy ending other than altering the psychology or physical form of those in the simulation.
     
  6. Ryika

    Ryika likes cookies and milk.

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    Well, looks like we have different perceptions about the systems, so we'll just have to accept that I'm right and you're wrong. :D
     
  7. Galgus

    Galgus Chieftain

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    Agreed, though you have the second bit backwards. :)
     
  8. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas & Suggestions
     
  9. Protagonist

    Protagonist Chieftain

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    What I would do is make the Mind Flower victory be the Ferocity (Harmony-Supremacy) victory. They've cut all their ties to Earth and want to be something better than human. Plus, being rather like the borg, they'd find the Hive Mind appealing.


    An idea for an alternative Harmony victory: Leash a bunch of Xenos and send them back through a portal to the Earth. Over time, this Xenoforms Earth back into something nicer.
     
  10. Azem.Ocram

    Azem.Ocram Chieftain

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    This conversation has spilled over into other threads (sorry).

    Anyway, Virtual Eden should be a standard wonder for P/S but Virtual Utopia should be the Tile Wonder that helps Supremacy win. Virtual Utopia is pretty much The Matrix + SkyNet and it allows the machines to take over (Emancipation and Domination) by making them stronger. If the next expansion adds a Starship Victory, Virtual Utopia helps with that as well by granting a +25% production bonus towards Starship parts.



    Here is a short intro to the victories:

    Purity would get Reclamation, sending supplies to fix-up (and buy out) Earth (though they can still do Promised Land)

    P/H Ascendancy allows for the type of Transcendence that puts humans in charge with the ability to lock out their thoughts and memories whenever they don't want to experience the thoughts and memories of others (like Gaia in the Foundation Trilogy by Isaac Asimov), though they can also settle Earthlings to the Promised Land (and make them better while they're at it)

    P/S Nobility prefers Promised Land (getting +1 movement to Earthlings and +1 Culture, +1 Energy per Earthling settled (I know it's too late to count) thanks to RoButlers and self-driving vehicles) but they could send supplies to Earth with enough Purity, or robotic "peace keepers" with enough Supremacy

    Supremacy could stay the same but with Virtual Utopia granting their robots more strength

    S/H prefers Domination or Emancipation but they could achieve the type of Transcendence that puts them in full control of technology and the Planet, able to access any thoughts, memories or experiences without fear of having others pry into their own minds





    Here are the details:

    P/H should get a Tile Wonder called the Ascendent Capitol where the previously mentioned psychic superhuman rules. However, this only helps Transcendence and Promised Land along (with new Victory Screens and the ability to piggy-back off others' Mind Flower or Exodus portal Warp Gate). It should be helped by Hybrid Forests, gene rejuvenation clinics, and corporate HQ wonder or city hall wonder. The Ascendent Capitol can commission Starship parts to be bought for exuberant prices.

    Purity gets the Earthling Supply company with various supporting structures (warehouse improvements, refugee hotels in the cities, HQ office Wonder, central depot Tile Wonder). It helps with Promised Land and Reclamation (fixing up Earth) with more help towards Reclamation. Terrascapes help Promised Land (as do Hybrid Forests and the RoButler economy). The Central Earthling Supply Depot Tile Wonder also allows Starship Parts to be bought for exuberant prices.

    P/S should get a RoButler company with various different subsidiary buildings (factory improvements, shops in the cities, HQ office Wonder, central warehouse Tile Wonder). It also helps with Promised Land and Reclamation (fixing up Earth) with more help towards Promised Land. The Central RoButler Warehouse Tile Wonder also grants slight productivity (+10%) towards Starship Parts and allows them to be bought for exuberant prices.

    S/H specializes in research for merging cybernetic implants with genetic engineering so the S/H worker improvement, city building, national wonder, and Tile Wonder focus on that. This grants them strengthen (like the Borg) helping with Domination, Emancipation, Starship, and Transcendence victory. Their Central [gene splicing & cybernetic implanting] Augmentery grants a +30% production bonus towards Starship parts when food is set to 0 but barely speeds up Transcendence at all (only equivalent to 2 Mind Stems).

    Harmony gets a Xenoscape (with visible mind stems) that makes Transcendence safe (new feature: Mind Flower rushed to activate at Harmony 13 drives all biological life insane so they all die within a week, therefore permanently despawning if the game is continued by a Supremacy (S>16, H<12) player), causes blue aliens to turn orange (instead of red) on the builder from an activated Mind Flower, and speeds up Transcendence (equivalent to 8 Mind Stems). The Mind Flower must be activated first (like the Beacon) before it can "bloom" and it can safely do so without the Xenoscape if it's activated by a player with 16+ Harmony. The Xenoscape allows certain Starship parts to be "grown" like a colonist (+25% production if food set to 0).


    New Idea!

    If a game is continued after any Affinity Victory, all other victories besides Domination and Starship victories become unavailable.
    If a game is continued after Domination Victory, all other victories besides Starship victory become unavailable.
    Starship victory sets your Planet as your home world in SM Starships (gives you an initial turn savegame). It can't be built up further. All factions controlling their original capital cities are in the galaxy with their diplomatic status the same as when you won and all cities under their control are not counted towards your home world's city count. All other factions are in the galaxy with default settings.
    Starship Victory therefore MUST be made as official DLC (expansion packs are DLC) to SM CivBE and SM Starships by Firaxis

    Do you hear me, Firaxis? You can generate more profit by adding merely 1 victory to the next DLC to Civilization Beyond Earth and selling a new DLC for Starships! I gave you the idea and I don't want credit, I just want to play a fun and complete game!
     

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